4 ms·

Too little, too late? While Microsoft fantasizing about an ecosystem to thrive on; there are plenty others that have an established footing and beyond. I have

by qatalo 14y ago

Too little, too late? While Microsoft fantasizing about an ecosystem to thrive on; there are plenty others that have an established footing and beyond. I have already put down my WP7 phone, not pleased that I cant upgrade to WP8. I am sure the MILLIONS of lumia owners will never pick up one again either.

jblock 14y ago
Not to nitpick or defend MS, but it sounds like they don't want to call it 8 unless it has all of the hardware features specified by 8 (like NFC). From what I understand it will get all of the new software benefits/features of Windows 8, just not in name.
- simonh 14y ago
  Some of the features of Windows Phone 8 are being backported onto the Windows Phone 7 platform. It's not in any way shape or form a version or variant of Windows Phone 8 though.
  - aik 14y ago
    >> "It's not in any way shape or form a version or variant of Windows Phone 8 though." I wonder, how would you characterize WP8? Judging by the fact that very similar situations to this one have happened over and over again throughout history, I'm fairly sure that once Windows Phone 8 is out, people will forget very quickly that previous Lumia phones never supported WP8. They'll simply get excited about the current offerings and that's it. People aren't very good at holding grudges when a shiny new carrot is dangled in front of their face.
rrreese 14y ago
Microsoft has demonstrated again and again that they can enter a market late yet gain massive traction. They do this by being dogged and throwing money behind a project until it works. See for example I.E, XBox, and Outlook. All markets that they had no control of, all weak early products followed by a big push and then solid market penetration. That's not to say that it will happen this time with phones and tablets, but MS has a lot of money, a lot smart skilled developers and tenacity. It would be foolish to rule them out just yet.
- mythz 14y ago
  This was possible in Microsoft's glory days before Google, Apple, Amazon became formidable forces - they've never seen smart and talented competitors like this where they're effectively rendered helpless - a distant competitor in each of these companys primary markets. Not only can't they compete, but they can't even maintain their own lead in these markets - as they've lost their dominant lead with Windows Mobile (which still has 2x market share than WP7) and Internet Explorer has recently conceded the most popular browser spot to Chrome. This is even after making these markets primary objectives where they shell out $1B a year to Nokia to be an exclusive WP7 Carrier. They've achieved their dominance in the PC world thanks partly to their open 3rd party hardware ecosystem. The problem is this model doesn't seem to translate well in the vertically integrated Smart Phone + Tablet market, and if they price Surface too aggressively it will effectively kill all incentives for their hardware partners to compete (and make any profit). It also doesn't help that Microsoft isn't a consumer brand, (e.g. its logo is dwarfed behind the XBOX moniker). All Microsoft's strength is in the enterprise space where the 2 cash cows that have ever really made them any money is Windows(+Server tools) & Office, effectively every other market they've entered have had marginal profits or have been massive loss leaders. They're stuck between the worlds most valuable company and a one of the worlds most loved brands giving away the mobile + tablet OS for free. I give them a small chance to be able to leverage Windows 8 to become the 2nd largest tablet provider (after iOS), but I'd say the best they can do with Windows Phone is #3. I wouldn't rule them out until they've still got their cash cows to fund their massive efforts - but take those away and they're another footnote in history.
  - Spearchucker 14y ago
    "This was possible in Microsoft's glory days..." This is still eminently possible. As an aside, by implication you're suggesting that market leaders displaced in the past (Netscape/Sony/BlackBerry/etc) were neither smart nor talented. "...model doesn't seem to translate well in the vertically integrated Smart Phone + Tablet market..." If you dig into any documentation from Microsoft that speaks about their vision you'll find that their model is based on a lot more than "Smart Phone + Tablet". It includes phone, tablet, laptop, PC, console, TV, desktop, server, and cloud. Think about that for a minute.
aik 14y ago
>> I am sure the MILLIONS of lumia owners will never pick up one again either. People aren't very good at holding grudges when a shiny new carrot is dangled in front of their face. (Assuming the carrot is shiny -- only time will tell but signs are pointing to yes, it probably is sufficiently shiny.)
rahoulb 14y ago
Most people never upgrade the software on their phone (iPhones being the notable exception). Windows Phone 8 won't even be on their radar till their contract expires in 18 or 24 months.
- evilduck 14y ago
  Prior to smartphones, sure, nobody updated them. I recall updating my WM6 to 6.5. Palm issued updates too. It's rarely an option for Android users though and WP7 users got the shaft. iPhones are the exception because Apple is currently the only one who has widely supported their products long enough for a software update to even exist.
ctdonath 14y ago
RIM owned mobile, Apple was derided when arriving late into a non-sequitur field, and Google - how did an ad-targeting search engine become a major OS competitor? We've seen amazing churn in tech of late. If MS has been paying attention, they could pull it off. (Then again, there's Zune and Kin.)

by qatalo 14y ago

jblock 14y ago

Not to nitpick or defend MS, but it sounds like they don't want to call it 8 unless it has all of the hardware features specified by 8 (like NFC). From what I understand it will get all of the new software benefits/features of Windows 8, just not in name.

simonh 14y ago
Some of the features of Windows Phone 8 are being backported onto the Windows Phone 7 platform. It's not in any way shape or form a version or variant of Windows Phone 8 though.
- aik 14y ago
  >> "It's not in any way shape or form a version or variant of Windows Phone 8 though." I wonder, how would you characterize WP8? Judging by the fact that very similar situations to this one have happened over and over again throughout history, I'm fairly sure that once Windows Phone 8 is out, people will forget very quickly that previous Lumia phones never supported WP8. They'll simply get excited about the current offerings and that's it. People aren't very good at holding grudges when a shiny new carrot is dangled in front of their face.

rrreese 14y ago

Microsoft has demonstrated again and again that they can enter a market late yet gain massive traction. They do this by being dogged and throwing money behind a project until it works. See for example I.E, XBox, and Outlook. All markets that they had no control of, all weak early products followed by a big push and then solid market penetration. That's not to say that it will happen this time with phones and tablets, but MS has a lot of money, a lot smart skilled developers and tenacity. It would be foolish to rule them out just yet.

mythz 14y ago
This was possible in Microsoft's glory days before Google, Apple, Amazon became formidable forces - they've never seen smart and talented competitors like this where they're effectively rendered helpless - a distant competitor in each of these companys primary markets. Not only can't they compete, but they can't even maintain their own lead in these markets - as they've lost their dominant lead with Windows Mobile (which still has 2x market share than WP7) and Internet Explorer has recently conceded the most popular browser spot to Chrome. This is even after making these markets primary objectives where they shell out $1B a year to Nokia to be an exclusive WP7 Carrier. They've achieved their dominance in the PC world thanks partly to their open 3rd party hardware ecosystem. The problem is this model doesn't seem to translate well in the vertically integrated Smart Phone + Tablet market, and if they price Surface too aggressively it will effectively kill all incentives for their hardware partners to compete (and make any profit). It also doesn't help that Microsoft isn't a consumer brand, (e.g. its logo is dwarfed behind the XBOX moniker). All Microsoft's strength is in the enterprise space where the 2 cash cows that have ever really made them any money is Windows(+Server tools) & Office, effectively every other market they've entered have had marginal profits or have been massive loss leaders. They're stuck between the worlds most valuable company and a one of the worlds most loved brands giving away the mobile + tablet OS for free. I give them a small chance to be able to leverage Windows 8 to become the 2nd largest tablet provider (after iOS), but I'd say the best they can do with Windows Phone is #3. I wouldn't rule them out until they've still got their cash cows to fund their massive efforts - but take those away and they're another footnote in history.
- Spearchucker 14y ago
  "This was possible in Microsoft's glory days..." This is still eminently possible. As an aside, by implication you're suggesting that market leaders displaced in the past (Netscape/Sony/BlackBerry/etc) were neither smart nor talented. "...model doesn't seem to translate well in the vertically integrated Smart Phone + Tablet market..." If you dig into any documentation from Microsoft that speaks about their vision you'll find that their model is based on a lot more than "Smart Phone + Tablet". It includes phone, tablet, laptop, PC, console, TV, desktop, server, and cloud. Think about that for a minute.

aik 14y ago

>> I am sure the MILLIONS of lumia owners will never pick up one again either. People aren't very good at holding grudges when a shiny new carrot is dangled in front of their face. (Assuming the carrot is shiny -- only time will tell but signs are pointing to yes, it probably is sufficiently shiny.)

rahoulb 14y ago

Most people never upgrade the software on their phone (iPhones being the notable exception). Windows Phone 8 won't even be on their radar till their contract expires in 18 or 24 months.

evilduck 14y ago
Prior to smartphones, sure, nobody updated them. I recall updating my WM6 to 6.5. Palm issued updates too. It's rarely an option for Android users though and WP7 users got the shaft. iPhones are the exception because Apple is currently the only one who has widely supported their products long enough for a software update to even exist.

ctdonath 14y ago

RIM owned mobile, Apple was derided when arriving late into a non-sequitur field, and Google - how did an ad-targeting search engine become a major OS competitor? We've seen amazing churn in tech of late. If MS has been paying attention, they could pull it off. (Then again, there's Zune and Kin.)