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These years in Common Lisp: 2023-2024 in review
- superdisk 2y agoHey, my little webassembly demo was linked, cool. Nice article!
- sorrythanks 2y agoso was mine!
- -__---____-ZXyw 2y agoA complete treasure trove, wonderful!
- nesarkvechnep 2y agoA few cool thing happened! I might give the CLOS course a try! I’m a functional guy but I feel CLOS isn’t your typical object system.
- dartos 2y agoAs a functional fan, CLOS is amazing.
- f1shy 2y agoWhen I learned CLOS it was the first time OOP started making sense for me.
- asplake 2y agoI've never used CLOS but I loved the metaobject protocol book. So many learnings outside of OOP – it’s a masterclass in API design.
- jjtheblunt 2y agoWhat’s the metaobject protocol book?
- pjmlp 2y agoA computing literature classic. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_the_Metaobject_Protocol https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_the_Metaobject_Pr...
- jjtheblunt 2y agoNo idea how i missed that; thank you.
- f1shy 2y agohttps://github.com/lisp-books/lisp-books/blob/main/Art%20of%20Metaobject%20Protocol.pdf https://github.com/lisp-books/lisp-books/blob/main/Art%20of%...
- codr7 2y agoMy main takeaway was multi-methods, they didn't really click for me before I started seriously digging into CLOS. I wish more languages supported them/played around with similar ideas.
- pjmlp 2y agoIndeed, most successful FP languages have their OOP like approaches. Another thing all modern Lisps have since the 1980's, is all major data structures, not only lists as many think when discussing Lisp.
- fovc 2y agoHaving the data structures is nice and all, but using them is kind of painful. They are certainly second class. Having to use accessor functions or destructuring macros instead of just a period or -> is often annoying too. The lack of syntax has cons as well as pros.
- cenamus 2y agoI mean you can write a macro that let's you write (object -> slot) and transforms it to (slot object) "->" should be unused
- tmtvl 2y agoWriting a reader macro that allows for something like... [some-numbers 0] ...to get the first (many programming languages make this mistake, using 0 to refer to the first element of a collection, so we can forgive CL for this) element. But I'm curious how you can write... (object -> slot) ...without getting an error about OBJECT not being a valid function or macro.
- fovc 2y agoAnd also make sure that slot is a symbol in the correct package. Or do like Elisp and do without packages but then have a 16 character prefix
- Jach 2y agoA late reply but it's worth addressing one way of doing this. First, your concern about object not being a valid function or macro isn't relevant at read time. Second, note that Lisp already has similar syntax: '(1 . 2) is essentially (cons 1 2). Implementing this type of syntax is not a privilege of the implementation alone. You're allowed to redefine your own reader for left paren. In SBCL: CL-USER> (get-macro-character #\() SB-IMPL::READ-LIST You can write `(set-macro-character #\( 'sb-impl::read-list)` and everything continues to work just fine. You can also jump-to-source and modify it if you want -- though it's cleaner to just copy it out to your own project, that's what I did for a quick hack/proof of concept. Essentially I added before the existing (when...) which handles the special dot syntax: (when (and (eq firstchar #\-) (eq (peek-char t stream t nil t) #\>)) (read-char stream t) ; actually read the nextchar > to discard it (let ((next-obj (read stream))) (sb-impl::flush-whitespace stream rt) (return `(slot-value ,@listtail ',next-obj)))) I won't claim this is good or proper, but it shows that it's quite feasible. We've turned (foo -> bar) into (slot-value foo 'bar). CL-USER> (defclass vec2 () ((x :initarg :x) (y :initarg :y))) #<STANDARD-CLASS COMMON-LISP-USER::VEC2> CL-USER> (defparameter vec (make-instance 'vec2 :x 3 :y 4)) VEC CL-USER> (vec -> y) 4 CL-USER> (read-from-string "(print (vec -> x))") (PRINT (SLOT-VALUE VEC 'X)) 18 Personally I wouldn't use this even if it was more properly/carefully implemented. (There's really no reason to replace the default left-paren reader, and no reason we have to have a space surrounding the "->". One thing I like about the infix reader macro package https://github.com/quil-lang/cmu-infix https://github.com/quil-lang/cmu-infix is that it doesn't care about spaces, I can write #I(1+1 + 4) and get 6.) I'm quite happy putting my class in its own package, and thus getting the primary tab-completion behavior I care about. e.g. "(ma:<tab>" could complete to "(math:" and then "(math:v<tab>" could complete to a list of options like "vector-x" "vector-y" or so on. I also like the somewhat unusual approach of naming my accessors with a dot prefix, e.g. (.x vec) and (.y vec), or even (math:.x vec) if I haven't imported the symbol.
- runevault 2y agoAs someone who's dabbled with Scheme, Clojure, and CL long ago and started wanting to get back into CL, I really enjoyed that course as a combination refresher plus deep dive into some topics I didn't really know before (including CLOS).
- nextos 2y agoCLOS is great, but CL also supports pure typed FP with https://coalton-lang.github.io https://coalton-lang.github.io Coalton progress is discussed briefly in the OP: https://lisp-journey.gitlab.io/blog/these-years-in-common-lisp-2023-2024-in-review/#coalton https://lisp-journey.gitlab.io/blog/these-years-in-common-li...
- pronoiac 2y agoI've worked on PAIP, and I think the GitHub.com version - https://github.com/norvig/paip-lisp/ https://github.com/norvig/paip-lisp/ - gets more attention than the GitHub.io version linked here. The GitHub.io version automatically gets updates, I think, but I'm not verifying the Markdown works over there.
- waynenilsen 2y agoIs there a web framework that is reasonably popular/supported?
- runevault 2y agoMight be worth checking out this[1], one of the sites linked from awesome-cl that teaches setting up webdev. And looks like it uses Hunchentoot which is what I've always seen every time I looked into backend webdev in CL [1]: https://web-apps-in-lisp.github.io/ https://web-apps-in-lisp.github.io/
- tempodox 2y agohttps://edicl.github.io/hunchentoot/ https://edicl.github.io/hunchentoot/
- aidenn0 2y agoWhat do you expect from a web framework? That means different things to different people. I don't really like frameworks, so I used a web-server abstraction layer named "clack." Radiance[0] is a more traditional web-framework, with interfaces for backend-storage, web-servers, templating, authentication &c. Hunchentoot gives you basic route definitions out-of-the-box (bring your own database), and for something more full-featured there is CLOG[1] and Reblocks[2] 0: https://shirakumo.github.io/radiance https://shirakumo.github.io/radiance 1: https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog https://github.com/rabbibotton/clog 2: https://40ants.com/reblocks/ https://40ants.com/reblocks/
- silcoon 2y agoCaveman2 is a good framework used with lack and clack. There are tutorials on the web.
- vtail 2y agoThe most unexpected news to me was that Hacker News, apparently, runs on top of SBCL now, via a secret implementation of Arc in Common Lisp!
- Y_Y 2y agoYa, when are we going to hear about "Clarc"? Where's the source?
- tmtvl 2y agoI read that the source won't be made available because it contains some anti-spam (anti-abuse?) measures that would be easily circumvented if the source were open. Security through obscurity is famously no security at all, but I can see how it can reduce the noise that dang has to deal with a bit.
- darthrupert 2y agoAnti-spam isn't security in that sense. Perfection is not required when dealing with irritation.
- osmano807 2y agoI really like this, as from an outsider it seems that CL doesn't have a community and the few packages it has are more like building blocks for customizing and implementing you required functionality rather than packaged black boxes. With all those new languages, it appears that the value proposition of CL is dwindling, static checking feels primitive, macros are easily attainable now, and live runtime image manipulation misses the point on the world of short lived containers.
- reikonomusha 2y agoCL has Coalton, which is the implementation of a static type system beyond Haskell 95. Full multiparameter type classes, functional dependencies, some persistent data structures, type-oriented optimization (including specialization and monomorphization). All integrated and native to CL without external tools. Live image manipulation isn't quite as useful as it once was for runtime program deployment. But it's still a differentiating feature for incremental and interactive development—before you compile binaries to deploy. Tools like Jupyter notebooks don't come close for actual (especially professional) software development.
- Onavo 2y agoEverybody forgets about SICL. It's one of the few new CL implementations that's not proprietary or copyleft. https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
- cracauer 2y agoToo bad the jobs are all gone by now.
- Aguad84 2y ago[dead]
- amatob23 2y ago[dead]
- Greentheodore 2y ago[dead]