8 ms·

Broligarchy does not build civilization

30 points by saevarom 2y ago

maxglute 2y ago
Most of human history has entirely been driven by broligarcy.
advael 2y ago
I'm not even really seeing the short term gains here. It seems like despite making grandiose claims, the administration and the "broligarchs" are relying on cheap political wins ("owning the libs/woke") to placate their base in place of even pretending to accomplish anything that helps their constituents. This honestly surprised me. I'm not a fan of the MAGA set but I genuinely expected there to be some upsides here and not just an immediate private equity style looting frenzy
- icoder 2y ago
  I read that as a preemptive counter against any argument involving upsides; even if they are there (possibly only for or in the eyes of some of the beholders), the division and abuse of power are a(n immediate) problem (and that's putting it lightly).
- pjc50 2y ago
  The short term gains are things like $TRUMP bringing in a huge amount of money for insiders. The long term gains are things like firing the FEC, enabling erosion of voter rights. The supporters aren't really in this for the money, they're in it for the blood. I don't know if that will change once some crisis forces gas prices up.
- moconnor 2y ago
  You don't believe their stated assertions that e.g. they are genuinely disturbed by the size of public borrowing and the growing debt and are taking what they see as desperate measures?
  - pjc50 2y ago
    All previous R governments have talked the same and increased the debt. I expect this one to do the same, and expand the deficit to make big tax cuts. The Liz Truss budget.
    - nathanaldensr 2y ago
      And all previous D governments, no? The point is that Congress is the one responsible for indebting the US, and it's both parties that are responsible. The Executive can only do so much to correct this, and even if Musk's claim of saving $2T turns out to be true, that still isn't even nearly enough to stem the tide of spending that has bankrupted the US.
      - advael 2y ago
        This whole framing is nonsense. The US is the reserve currency of the world, and its influence in both economic and soft power has had massive ROI for the entire economy for decades. There is no other government that plays this role in the global economy, and it's a ridiculously advantageous one. The fact that a balance sheet shows the sum of the investments to achieve and maintain that as a deficit is not a reason to freak out, this is a drastic misunderstanding of how nation-scale economics work that comes from people who are only familiar with household and business budgets But if we were concerned about the budget, contractors are drastically more expensive than federal agencies and are much more dubious in their value proposition for the state or the public. It's just that the people involved made their fortunes on cushy government contracts and corporate welfare, so they won't go after it. The whole "fiscal conservatism" concept has always been a massive grift and this is the most blatant and obvious it's ever been And you're absolutely right in saying that the Democrats are on the same grift, as their strategy has shifted to triangulation in the last 40 years, though the economic shocks they tend to produce over this insanity are generally smaller. The fact is, neoliberal economics has failed to produce widespread domestic prosperity, was likely an attempt to loot modern economies for an oligarch class from the beginning, and people keep accepting doubling down on these policies because they've been systematically misinformed about economic cause and effect through trite little analogies
baxtr 2y ago
I think the pattern leading up to this situation anywhere in the world is the accumulation of power. A society that is able to spread power as much as possible is more resilient in the long run. How to maintain a wide spread dispersion of power? I have no idea.
- icoder 2y ago
  My theory is that (in current society) this starts with spreading money. That's not trivial either but it feels at least a bit more tangible to me.
moconnor 2y ago
The post doesn't make specific claims but as a non-American observer (and without taking a position here) the major changes planned/in progress seem to be DOGE, deportations and tariffs. The proponents claim all of these are for the benefit of working-class Americans and not the elites. Without addressing that it's hard to see what this post actually adds to the conversation. It makes vague assertions against parties unnamed that Business is not the Way to Run a Civilisation. Those that see a clear and urgent need to reduce spending, immigration and globalisation will not be moved one iota by this because it will not make sense to them. They believe they are already saving civilisation.
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  the major changes planned by DOGE are gutting the US FedGov in ways that allow the hyper-wealthy access to everything without restraint. e.g. hitting the Dept of Tresury, annihilating all of the Inspector General positions, removing oversight and regulatory groups, etc. some of those hyper-wealthy happen to be the Russian president + Chinese + Israeli + Saudi, et al, and would love to see NATO split apart and the US economy sputter. They are, arguably, the strongest of the hyper-wealthy vying for influence but not the only ones, though they are likely the most successful. deportations and tariffs exist to serve as a distraction, or as a way to further the above to points.
throwjrjtiri 2y ago
It would be nice to declassify vaccination trials data. Perhaps this "broligarchy" could take a spin on them. Old guards and their "zero evidence of lab leak" is very old.
smitty1e 2y ago
The reads like some AI broth broken out by Brosidon, King of the Brocean.
icoder 2y ago
As a Western Europe based, peace loving, tolerant, introvert software dev I'm highly worried by what's happening in the world but at the same time feel totally powerless (I admit to be - for now - selfish enough to not be willing to jeopardise my family and career above this worry). The frustrating thing is that there must be so many 'of us' and I can't help but think 'we' should organize. Not sure if this (blog) could be a starting point for that?
- pjc50 2y ago
  Organize locally. I cannot stress this enough: for those of us not in the US, do not get sucked into the circus, focus on addressing the same forces locally where you can more easily make a difference.
  - orwin 2y ago
    And you don't even have to organize. Just participate in the world. Go to improv classes, or play PnP RPGs, maybe in a bar or something. Go to a sport club, learn new things. Don't despair, and don't get caught in the circus. Do the best you can to avoid consuming too much, especially avoid solitary consumption. The organization will come organically.
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      no, it won't. no one just accidentally turns into a political action campaign. esp. the glued-to-the-phone 2025 bourgeoisie tech worker. like I don't want my DnD session to turn into a revolutionary committee; I'm just here to cast spells and eat pretzels, man. Ditto for other places -- there is a right time and right place, and most of the time it's neither. you need to make a choice to get involved and organized
mamonster 2y ago
> It may feel like we have more freedom if some of us are successful. But that's a myopic view. We are not free. It is more like an addiction. Genuine freedom can happen only if it is available to everyone. >If we truly are to be a society of people who live on this planet together – a civilization - we must take care of each other. Sublimated trotskyism on full display.
- relaxing 2y ago
  That has nothing to do with Trotskyism. It’s not even a Marxist view.

30 points by saevarom 2y ago

Most of human history has entirely been driven by broligarcy.

I'm not even really seeing the short term gains here. It seems like despite making grandiose claims, the administration and the "broligarchs" are relying on cheap political wins ("owning the libs/woke") to placate their base in place of even pretending to accomplish anything that helps their constituents. This honestly surprised me. I'm not a fan of the MAGA set but I genuinely expected there to be some upsides here and not just an immediate private equity style looting frenzy

icoder 2y ago
I read that as a preemptive counter against any argument involving upsides; even if they are there (possibly only for or in the eyes of some of the beholders), the division and abuse of power are a(n immediate) problem (and that's putting it lightly).
pjc50 2y ago
The short term gains are things like $TRUMP bringing in a huge amount of money for insiders. The long term gains are things like firing the FEC, enabling erosion of voter rights. The supporters aren't really in this for the money, they're in it for the blood. I don't know if that will change once some crisis forces gas prices up.
moconnor 2y ago
You don't believe their stated assertions that e.g. they are genuinely disturbed by the size of public borrowing and the growing debt and are taking what they see as desperate measures?
- pjc50 2y ago
  All previous R governments have talked the same and increased the debt. I expect this one to do the same, and expand the deficit to make big tax cuts. The Liz Truss budget.
  - nathanaldensr 2y ago
    And all previous D governments, no? The point is that Congress is the one responsible for indebting the US, and it's both parties that are responsible. The Executive can only do so much to correct this, and even if Musk's claim of saving $2T turns out to be true, that still isn't even nearly enough to stem the tide of spending that has bankrupted the US.
    - advael 2y ago
      This whole framing is nonsense. The US is the reserve currency of the world, and its influence in both economic and soft power has had massive ROI for the entire economy for decades. There is no other government that plays this role in the global economy, and it's a ridiculously advantageous one. The fact that a balance sheet shows the sum of the investments to achieve and maintain that as a deficit is not a reason to freak out, this is a drastic misunderstanding of how nation-scale economics work that comes from people who are only familiar with household and business budgets But if we were concerned about the budget, contractors are drastically more expensive than federal agencies and are much more dubious in their value proposition for the state or the public. It's just that the people involved made their fortunes on cushy government contracts and corporate welfare, so they won't go after it. The whole "fiscal conservatism" concept has always been a massive grift and this is the most blatant and obvious it's ever been And you're absolutely right in saying that the Democrats are on the same grift, as their strategy has shifted to triangulation in the last 40 years, though the economic shocks they tend to produce over this insanity are generally smaller. The fact is, neoliberal economics has failed to produce widespread domestic prosperity, was likely an attempt to loot modern economies for an oligarch class from the beginning, and people keep accepting doubling down on these policies because they've been systematically misinformed about economic cause and effect through trite little analogies

baxtr 2y ago

I think the pattern leading up to this situation anywhere in the world is the accumulation of power. A society that is able to spread power as much as possible is more resilient in the long run. How to maintain a wide spread dispersion of power? I have no idea.

icoder 2y ago
My theory is that (in current society) this starts with spreading money. That's not trivial either but it feels at least a bit more tangible to me.

moconnor 2y ago

The post doesn't make specific claims but as a non-American observer (and without taking a position here) the major changes planned/in progress seem to be DOGE, deportations and tariffs. The proponents claim all of these are for the benefit of working-class Americans and not the elites. Without addressing that it's hard to see what this post actually adds to the conversation. It makes vague assertions against parties unnamed that Business is not the Way to Run a Civilisation. Those that see a clear and urgent need to reduce spending, immigration and globalisation will not be moved one iota by this because it will not make sense to them. They believe they are already saving civilisation.

red-iron-pine 2y ago
the major changes planned by DOGE are gutting the US FedGov in ways that allow the hyper-wealthy access to everything without restraint. e.g. hitting the Dept of Tresury, annihilating all of the Inspector General positions, removing oversight and regulatory groups, etc. some of those hyper-wealthy happen to be the Russian president + Chinese + Israeli + Saudi, et al, and would love to see NATO split apart and the US economy sputter. They are, arguably, the strongest of the hyper-wealthy vying for influence but not the only ones, though they are likely the most successful. deportations and tariffs exist to serve as a distraction, or as a way to further the above to points.

throwjrjtiri 2y ago

It would be nice to declassify vaccination trials data. Perhaps this "broligarchy" could take a spin on them. Old guards and their "zero evidence of lab leak" is very old.

smitty1e 2y ago

The reads like some AI broth broken out by Brosidon, King of the Brocean.

icoder 2y ago

As a Western Europe based, peace loving, tolerant, introvert software dev I'm highly worried by what's happening in the world but at the same time feel totally powerless (I admit to be - for now - selfish enough to not be willing to jeopardise my family and career above this worry). The frustrating thing is that there must be so many 'of us' and I can't help but think 'we' should organize. Not sure if this (blog) could be a starting point for that?

pjc50 2y ago
Organize locally. I cannot stress this enough: for those of us not in the US, do not get sucked into the circus, focus on addressing the same forces locally where you can more easily make a difference.
- orwin 2y ago
  And you don't even have to organize. Just participate in the world. Go to improv classes, or play PnP RPGs, maybe in a bar or something. Go to a sport club, learn new things. Don't despair, and don't get caught in the circus. Do the best you can to avoid consuming too much, especially avoid solitary consumption. The organization will come organically.
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    no, it won't. no one just accidentally turns into a political action campaign. esp. the glued-to-the-phone 2025 bourgeoisie tech worker. like I don't want my DnD session to turn into a revolutionary committee; I'm just here to cast spells and eat pretzels, man. Ditto for other places -- there is a right time and right place, and most of the time it's neither. you need to make a choice to get involved and organized

mamonster 2y ago

> It may feel like we have more freedom if some of us are successful. But that's a myopic view. We are not free. It is more like an addiction. Genuine freedom can happen only if it is available to everyone. >If we truly are to be a society of people who live on this planet together – a civilization - we must take care of each other. Sublimated trotskyism on full display.

relaxing 2y ago
That has nothing to do with Trotskyism. It’s not even a Marxist view.