6 ms·

Wonder how Elon is getting the clearance for this , dude smoked weed on camera , isn’t that automatically disqualifying for gov clearance ?

entropicdrifter 2y ago
Presidential mandate
- Tostino 2y ago
  To become a dictator? This isn't in the presidential powers. Congress needs to pass a bill if they want to do this.
  - snailmailstare 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - tosbalok3 2y ago
    > This isn't in the presidential powers. Yes it is! It is literally the first sentence of section 1 of Article II of the constitution! Saying, "I don't like this therefore it's not in his power" is logically identical to seeing Congress pass a law that you don't like and saying, "this isn't in Congress' power"
    - Tostino 2y ago
      The power of the purse was deliberately placed with Congress in Article I, Section 9, Clause 7: "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law." This isn't about liking or disliking powers, it's about maintaining the constitutional balance that protects everyone's rights. Article II Section 1 establishes the presidency and electoral process, but the Take Care Clause in Section 3 actually requires the President to faithfully execute Congress's laws. This separation of powers exists specifically to prevent any branch from exercising unchecked authority over public funds. Changing funding requires congressional action because that's a core protection built into our system. It's not an obstacle to be worked around, it's a fundamental safeguard of our constitutional republic.
      - tosbalok3 2y ago
        > "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law." Yes that's true ...and totally irrelevant. Trump is NOT drawing money from the treasury. He is performing the executive function - specifically in this case finding fraud.
        Tostino 2y ago
        This exact issue was settled after Nixon tried blocking environmental funds. The Supreme Court ruled in Train v. City of New York (1975) that the executive branch cannot refuse to spend appropriated money. Congress then passed the Impoundment Control Act to make it crystal clear. The president must execute spending as directed by law. Creating new positions to block these payments is just impoundment with extra steps.
- kccoder 2y ago
  By winning a plurality of the vote and being within a couple thousand votes in a few swing states changing the outcome? He won, but just. Not that it matters. Serial violators of others' autonomy aren't know for coloring between the lines. Give them a femtometer and they take a light-year. And when you're a star, or president, they let you do it.
zzzeek 2y ago
He doesn't have clearance. They march into the offices, demand access, whoever is there says "no", then that person gets fired (placed "on leave") ten minutes later. Rinse and repeat.
- metalman 2y ago
  "This is why it's an illegal coup." Vs ? what? a legal coup? or the other varietys like these agencies under scruteny fund worldwide?
  - davkan 2y ago
    A coup is a sudden takeover or upset, it does not have to be illegal, though it is usually understood to be.
- runjake 2y ago
  Musk has, and has had, top secret security clearance for years, due to his SpaceX work launching spy satellites for the US government.
  - kccoder 2y ago
    The president has top secret clearance and doesn't have access to personal tax returns. I don't believe there is a blanket "all things included" security clearance.
    - throwaway784989 2y ago
      This is correct. There is no "you get access to everything" kind of clearance. That includes the President. Congress has the power to get access to anything, but even then there is a tight process limited to a handful of congresspeople. A core part of this sort of security is compartmentalization. A person who has "top secret" level clearance has it for specific subject matter. Their clearance is worthless if they're outside those boundaries.
Havoc 2y ago
They seem to be coloring entirely outside the lines here. Much like trump with his bulk exec order and see what sticks approach
alexjplant 2y ago
While there are guidelines in the form of an unclassified, gov't-hosted desk reference [1] ultimate discretion seems to be left to adjudicators. There are public archives [2] that talk about such decisions made in tricky cases of criminal activity, financial malfeasance, potential blackmail, etc. I've seen at least one where somebody admitted to doing hard drugs while having a clearance and actually got upgraded to a TS (though this was ~10 years ago and I can't find it via search engine). [1] https://www.dhra.mil/portals/52/documents/perserec/adr_version_4.pdf https://www.dhra.mil/portals/52/documents/perserec/adr_versi... [2] https://doha.ogc.osd.mil/Industrial-Security-Program/Industrial-Security-Clearance-Decisions/ISCR-Hearing-Decisions/ https://doha.ogc.osd.mil/Industrial-Security-Program/Industr...
- cma 2y ago
  Musk's clearance was already somewhat restricted because of it and limited things he could see at SpaceX https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/07/elon-musk-asks-pentagon-for-security-clearance-back-during-pot-smoking-review.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/07/elon-musk-asks-pentagon-for-... After he did a $1 million lottery a day only for Registered Republicans, to bypass pay for registration laws, in a swing state during the election.. I'm guessing any leftovers of that will be lifted.
  - cma 2y ago
    More recent sources, lawyers advised him not to try for higher clearance because of the drug use: https://www.thedailybeast.com/elon-musk-denied-access-to-spacexs-biggest-government-secrets-over-drugs-and-foreign-contacts/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/elon-musk-denied-access-to-spa...
dragonwriter 2y ago
Trump did clearance by fiat for a number of officials who he knew could not pass traditional clearance processes; as President he has that power though President’s generally use the process that has been established rather than doing it ad hoc both because they realize that they are fallible so having proper vetting is substantively good, and because they want to avoid the appearance of personal favoritism/corruption (Trump, very clearly, shares neither of those concerns.)

entropicdrifter 2y ago

Presidential mandate

Tostino 2y ago
To become a dictator? This isn't in the presidential powers. Congress needs to pass a bill if they want to do this.
- snailmailstare 2y ago
  [flagged]
- tosbalok3 2y ago
  > This isn't in the presidential powers. Yes it is! It is literally the first sentence of section 1 of Article II of the constitution! Saying, "I don't like this therefore it's not in his power" is logically identical to seeing Congress pass a law that you don't like and saying, "this isn't in Congress' power"
  - Tostino 2y ago
    The power of the purse was deliberately placed with Congress in Article I, Section 9, Clause 7: "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law." This isn't about liking or disliking powers, it's about maintaining the constitutional balance that protects everyone's rights. Article II Section 1 establishes the presidency and electoral process, but the Take Care Clause in Section 3 actually requires the President to faithfully execute Congress's laws. This separation of powers exists specifically to prevent any branch from exercising unchecked authority over public funds. Changing funding requires congressional action because that's a core protection built into our system. It's not an obstacle to be worked around, it's a fundamental safeguard of our constitutional republic.
    - tosbalok3 2y ago
      > "No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law." Yes that's true ...and totally irrelevant. Trump is NOT drawing money from the treasury. He is performing the executive function - specifically in this case finding fraud.
      - Tostino 2y ago
        This exact issue was settled after Nixon tried blocking environmental funds. The Supreme Court ruled in Train v. City of New York (1975) that the executive branch cannot refuse to spend appropriated money. Congress then passed the Impoundment Control Act to make it crystal clear. The president must execute spending as directed by law. Creating new positions to block these payments is just impoundment with extra steps.
kccoder 2y ago
By winning a plurality of the vote and being within a couple thousand votes in a few swing states changing the outcome? He won, but just. Not that it matters. Serial violators of others' autonomy aren't know for coloring between the lines. Give them a femtometer and they take a light-year. And when you're a star, or president, they let you do it.

zzzeek 2y ago

He doesn't have clearance. They march into the offices, demand access, whoever is there says "no", then that person gets fired (placed "on leave") ten minutes later. Rinse and repeat.

metalman 2y ago
"This is why it's an illegal coup." Vs ? what? a legal coup? or the other varietys like these agencies under scruteny fund worldwide?
- davkan 2y ago
  A coup is a sudden takeover or upset, it does not have to be illegal, though it is usually understood to be.
runjake 2y ago
Musk has, and has had, top secret security clearance for years, due to his SpaceX work launching spy satellites for the US government.
- kccoder 2y ago
  The president has top secret clearance and doesn't have access to personal tax returns. I don't believe there is a blanket "all things included" security clearance.
  - throwaway784989 2y ago
    This is correct. There is no "you get access to everything" kind of clearance. That includes the President. Congress has the power to get access to anything, but even then there is a tight process limited to a handful of congresspeople. A core part of this sort of security is compartmentalization. A person who has "top secret" level clearance has it for specific subject matter. Their clearance is worthless if they're outside those boundaries.

Havoc 2y ago

They seem to be coloring entirely outside the lines here. Much like trump with his bulk exec order and see what sticks approach

alexjplant 2y ago

While there are guidelines in the form of an unclassified, gov't-hosted desk reference [1] ultimate discretion seems to be left to adjudicators. There are public archives [2] that talk about such decisions made in tricky cases of criminal activity, financial malfeasance, potential blackmail, etc. I've seen at least one where somebody admitted to doing hard drugs while having a clearance and actually got upgraded to a TS (though this was ~10 years ago and I can't find it via search engine). [1] https://www.dhra.mil/portals/52/documents/perserec/adr_version_4.pdf https://www.dhra.mil/portals/52/documents/perserec/adr_versi... [2] https://doha.ogc.osd.mil/Industrial-Security-Program/Industrial-Security-Clearance-Decisions/ISCR-Hearing-Decisions/ https://doha.ogc.osd.mil/Industrial-Security-Program/Industr...

cma 2y ago
Musk's clearance was already somewhat restricted because of it and limited things he could see at SpaceX https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/07/elon-musk-asks-pentagon-for-security-clearance-back-during-pot-smoking-review.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/07/elon-musk-asks-pentagon-for-... After he did a $1 million lottery a day only for Registered Republicans, to bypass pay for registration laws, in a swing state during the election.. I'm guessing any leftovers of that will be lifted.
- cma 2y ago
  More recent sources, lawyers advised him not to try for higher clearance because of the drug use: https://www.thedailybeast.com/elon-musk-denied-access-to-spacexs-biggest-government-secrets-over-drugs-and-foreign-contacts/ https://www.thedailybeast.com/elon-musk-denied-access-to-spa...

dragonwriter 2y ago

Trump did clearance by fiat for a number of officials who he knew could not pass traditional clearance processes; as President he has that power though President’s generally use the process that has been established rather than doing it ad hoc both because they realize that they are fallible so having proper vetting is substantively good, and because they want to avoid the appearance of personal favoritism/corruption (Trump, very clearly, shares neither of those concerns.)