6 ms·

To make matters worse, this is not only "rehappening" in the US. It's global

by pagutierrezn 2y ago

blooalien 2y ago
What a way to utterly waste the likely last few generations of "civilized" humanity on Earth... :(
- whatever1 2y ago
  Nobody really remembers, hence, the same mistakes will be made.
  - labster 2y ago
    Some people remember. I have a neighbor who was a child living in Berlin in ‘45. Looks like the story of her life will have literary bookends.
    - acomjean 2y ago
      My mom was born in late 1930s Germany. She remembers being bombed out of her appartment. She came to US and is not happy with the way things are going here.
- dr_dshiv 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - pjc50 2y ago
    > these are hypotheticals for a reason! Because they have zero connection to reality? Can I have a pony in this hypothetical too? How do we get to any of them while having to climb over the additional hurdle of a far right anti-science government?
  - amarcheschi 2y ago
    >The American scientific establishment and education system are likely to be transformed to create massive jumps in productivity (in the age of AI) And this presidency will ensure that this jump in productivity only benefits the wealthy. Proposed tax cuts by Trump would make middle class people pay more and wealthy people pay less >There are very few ways to compete with China without very strong leadership — and now, it seems, we have that chance. Oh yes, the guy that wanted to have a say in what the fed does. The guy who proposed and eventually rolled back tariffs on its neighboring countries, sending a lot of companies (both in usa, Canada, and Mexico) in panic. I could go on for hours
  - myrmidon 2y ago
    > The USA will likely address climate change directly through technology (geoengineering) vs rapid degrowth (the only two plausible means of stabilizing the climate) How is "rapid degrowth" a solution to climate change? we have "degrowth" in population in basically every industrialized country already anyway, but more extreme rates like South Korea are already destabilizingly low, and still not even close to enough for keeping CO2 emissions in check: That would probably require us to slash population by at least 60% (and quickly, even if we kept enacting CO2 reducing measures). There is already a "solution" for climate change on the table-- electrify everything, de-carbonize electricity generation and help roll out this change globally, but all the major players are dragging their feet because this is obviously not free...
  - aisenik 2y ago
    >2. The USA will likely avoid war. The USA is currently experiencing an autocoup prosecuted by an unholy alliance of tech industry elites and dominionist christian white supremacists. Its president, who presided over an attempted violent coup in 2021, has called for the annexation of Canada and Greenland, ethnically cleansing Palestine and acquiring it as US territory, military incursions into Mexico, seizing Panama, and suggested the annexation of the United Kingdom. He is openly aligned with radical white supremacist militias that are entwined with our sheriffs, police, and military. He's installed a white supremacist as Secretary of Defense with the support of congress and numerous others in powerful positions throughout the remnants of the US government. We are on the precipice, staring into the abyss.
    - dr_dshiv 2y ago
      Jeez, when you put it that way… No, I hear what you are saying. Nevertheless — I don’t think my hypotheticals are unreasonable. All these people want money. And there is so much more money to be made not going to war. That’s the optimistic path forward, anyway.
  - gspr 2y ago
    > 1. The USA will likely address climate change directly through technology (geoengineering) vs rapid degrowth (the only two plausible means of stabilizing the climate) That climate change can be addressed through technology is of course true, but equating that with geoengineering is pure insanity. Also, there's _nothing_ that indicates that the US will address this area at all, especially not now, with an administration that doesn't even believe that there's anything to address! > 2. The USA will likely avoid war. I do not understand how you can draw that conclusion after seeing the new president threaten even _allies_ with war in just a few weeks in office. > 3. The USA will likely experience large-scale economic growth due to regulatory change, efficient government services, compounding industrial ecosystems and robotics Which efficient government services are you talking about? The ones provided by skilled bureaucrats being replaced due to lacking "loyalty"? > 4. The American scientific establishment and education system are likely to be transformed to create massive jumps in productivity (in the age of AI) Transformed by having their funding slashed? > We already have smarter AI than 99% of humans You seem to be sampling a very strange subset of humans. > There is little doubt that this will be applied across society at an unbelievable scale and speed. There's, in fact, lots of doubt. > In short, China’s economic model (low-corruption communistic capitalism) is working way better than liberal democratic models. For certain things, sure. For other things (like freedom of speech, personal liberties): very much not. > There are very few ways to compete with China without very strong leadership — and now, it seems, we have that chance. So, you want a "strong leader". How does that go down in history again? Anyway – do you think that in addition to being "strong" there are other aspects of a leader that you might want to have in addition? Like, I don't know, intelligence and compassion? Or are you just going for strength to smack everyone over the head? > And, with the global distribution of high-intelligence AI, there is plenty of room for distributed, decentralized local growth that can enable all people around the world to participate in economic development and super-abundant resources. Absolute meaningless dribble. It just needs a sprinkle of blockchain or something. > Things will continue to accelerate. And the biggest wellbeing challenges will come from overabundance of resources rather than their scarcity. So when can people suffering under these authoritarian strongmen expect this abundance? How much suffering will they have to take before utopia hits? Or, alternatively, before we can laugh you lot off for a few generations again.
michaelhoney 2y ago
What's happening in the US is in a whole other league of fucked
- twixfel 2y ago
  Yes the US is uniquely fucked, really. At least the previous global hegemon fought two world wars to lose its place. The US is basically committing geopolitical suicide at the top of its powers because of gender neutral toilets and the price of eggs. A rather pathetic country and people, sadly.
  - MathMonkeyMan 2y ago
    Triggered. If we are pathetic, then look forward to our enlightened successors. I don't know what will happen in American politics, nor what effect it will have on the world or the permanence of those effects, but there are demagogues everywhere, America is not exceptional.
    - twixfel 2y ago
      America is exceptional in that it is the global hegemon self destructing before our eyes and for largely nonsensical domestic reasons. That is exceptional. And I don’t know about triggered, but rather just sad, because I was one of those people who really believed in the US at one time!
    - Hikikomori 2y ago
      I look forward our new Chinese overlords.
  - archagon 2y ago
    We’re getting fascism installed because a bunch of chuds want to be able to say “retard” again.
  - yubblegum 2y ago
    The British Empire was not inflitrated and was not pursuing policies that prioritized another entity's interests. > powers because of gender neutral toilets and the price of eggs. A rather pathetic country and people, sadly. What is sad imo is thinking that the above the actual reason for the shenanigans. US has been unlike itself since 9/11. Everything changed.
bigbacaloa 2y ago
[dead]
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
I'm curious if what is happening in the US and what has happened in Britain with Brexit actually ends up slowing some of these marches towards illiberalism in other places. Like when people are upset at the direction of a country or current policies, they may take a "throw the bums out" attitude even if the alternative is far worse. But perhaps they're looking at the complete shit show in the US and how unproductive Brexit was and are thinking "OK, maybe not like that..." I mean, it sounds like Canada is more united than it's been in a long time in its shared opposition to Trump.
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  In France at least, Brexit made the idea of leaving the EU obsolete in political discourse, both on the left and far right. But at the same time French media just repeated the “it's a clumsy handwave from an autistic dude” narrative after Musk's Nazi salute so I'm not sure it will work this time.
  - throw310822 2y ago
    Notice that this benevolence and protection by the media is granted to Musk (and Trump) by their complete subservience to Israel's demands and wants. Trump just proposed ethnic cleansing the Gaza Strip and cleaning up the rubble with American money and work so it can be handed over to Israel in a nice shape.
    - defrost 2y ago
      I suspect a large part of the subtext is that considerable real estate holdings, hotels, casinos, apartments, etc. will mysteriously end up slightly off book on some TrumpCo. spinoff or another. It's the new Riviera after all . . .
      - throw310822 2y ago
        No, that's missing the point. What hotels, casinos and apartments were promised to the Biden administration to flood Israel with money and weapons to flatten the Gaza strip into rubble and kill and maim hundreds of thousands? It's not important what leverage Israel has used to make yet another US president do exactly what they want, contrary to any idea of justice, international law, basic humanity and common sense. The point is that Israel has that kind of leverage and nobody is able to resist it.
nirui 2y ago
As I understand it, this wave of US policy change is inspired by a combination of white supremacy and US exceptionalism. But rest of the world is effected by few different things, for example, xenophobia in the case of EU and UK, expansionism in Russia, zionism in Israel, nationalism in China (and Japan, really) etc. It looked the same if you stand far, but they're all different, so I wouldn't call it "global". There is a documentary from Deutsche Welle titled "The rise of the ultra-right in the US": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrhREluLdBs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrhREluLdBs. Maybe worth a watch if you want to see an "outside" perspective on this.
- pjc50 2y ago
  The fear of foreigners or racial "others" is the common element. And some of the propaganda is common, too.
- imacomputertoo 2y ago
  The right wing of the US is not driven by white supremacy. It's driven by a belief in a variety of mostly false grievances, about immigration, the economy, the wealth gap, etc. Those bogus beliefs are held by white and non white people. Consider that Trump won almost 50% of Latino male voters. As a percentage of the vote, Trump did better with racial minorities and women in 2024 than 2020, and much better compared to 2016. White supremacy is real and it has some effect in US politics, but it's not a driving force anymore. I say this as someone who has lived both in and outside the US. The outside perspective is not always better. Germans may be seeing the US through the lens of their own history.
  - nirui 2y ago
    Well, I would like to clarify that I was not criticizing any country. To me, all of those examples are just nations learning and exploring what's good and what's bad again under this new age. The world will adjust and slowly but surely get better. See? This time, so far no body is getting burned for claiming that the Earth is not the center of the universe. And for all the other points, only time will tell. BTW, I don't hate Mr. Trump either. When he was elected, I brought in some financial products anticipating his unconventional method (and most importantly, I did not buy in some other products). Now I seeing ~5% return in just half a month. I thank that man for his straightforward. So if I'd say, fearmongering is useless and opportunity for goodness is still reachable.

To make matters worse, this is not only "rehappening" in the US. It's global

blooalien 2y ago

What a way to utterly waste the likely last few generations of "civilized" humanity on Earth... :(

whatever1 2y ago
Nobody really remembers, hence, the same mistakes will be made.
- labster 2y ago
  Some people remember. I have a neighbor who was a child living in Berlin in ‘45. Looks like the story of her life will have literary bookends.
  - acomjean 2y ago
    My mom was born in late 1930s Germany. She remembers being bombed out of her appartment. She came to US and is not happy with the way things are going here.
dr_dshiv 2y ago
[flagged]
- pjc50 2y ago
  > these are hypotheticals for a reason! Because they have zero connection to reality? Can I have a pony in this hypothetical too? How do we get to any of them while having to climb over the additional hurdle of a far right anti-science government?
- amarcheschi 2y ago
  >The American scientific establishment and education system are likely to be transformed to create massive jumps in productivity (in the age of AI) And this presidency will ensure that this jump in productivity only benefits the wealthy. Proposed tax cuts by Trump would make middle class people pay more and wealthy people pay less >There are very few ways to compete with China without very strong leadership — and now, it seems, we have that chance. Oh yes, the guy that wanted to have a say in what the fed does. The guy who proposed and eventually rolled back tariffs on its neighboring countries, sending a lot of companies (both in usa, Canada, and Mexico) in panic. I could go on for hours
- myrmidon 2y ago
  > The USA will likely address climate change directly through technology (geoengineering) vs rapid degrowth (the only two plausible means of stabilizing the climate) How is "rapid degrowth" a solution to climate change? we have "degrowth" in population in basically every industrialized country already anyway, but more extreme rates like South Korea are already destabilizingly low, and still not even close to enough for keeping CO2 emissions in check: That would probably require us to slash population by at least 60% (and quickly, even if we kept enacting CO2 reducing measures). There is already a "solution" for climate change on the table-- electrify everything, de-carbonize electricity generation and help roll out this change globally, but all the major players are dragging their feet because this is obviously not free...
- aisenik 2y ago
  >2. The USA will likely avoid war. The USA is currently experiencing an autocoup prosecuted by an unholy alliance of tech industry elites and dominionist christian white supremacists. Its president, who presided over an attempted violent coup in 2021, has called for the annexation of Canada and Greenland, ethnically cleansing Palestine and acquiring it as US territory, military incursions into Mexico, seizing Panama, and suggested the annexation of the United Kingdom. He is openly aligned with radical white supremacist militias that are entwined with our sheriffs, police, and military. He's installed a white supremacist as Secretary of Defense with the support of congress and numerous others in powerful positions throughout the remnants of the US government. We are on the precipice, staring into the abyss.
  - dr_dshiv 2y ago
    Jeez, when you put it that way… No, I hear what you are saying. Nevertheless — I don’t think my hypotheticals are unreasonable. All these people want money. And there is so much more money to be made not going to war. That’s the optimistic path forward, anyway.
- gspr 2y ago
  > 1. The USA will likely address climate change directly through technology (geoengineering) vs rapid degrowth (the only two plausible means of stabilizing the climate) That climate change can be addressed through technology is of course true, but equating that with geoengineering is pure insanity. Also, there's _nothing_ that indicates that the US will address this area at all, especially not now, with an administration that doesn't even believe that there's anything to address! > 2. The USA will likely avoid war. I do not understand how you can draw that conclusion after seeing the new president threaten even _allies_ with war in just a few weeks in office. > 3. The USA will likely experience large-scale economic growth due to regulatory change, efficient government services, compounding industrial ecosystems and robotics Which efficient government services are you talking about? The ones provided by skilled bureaucrats being replaced due to lacking "loyalty"? > 4. The American scientific establishment and education system are likely to be transformed to create massive jumps in productivity (in the age of AI) Transformed by having their funding slashed? > We already have smarter AI than 99% of humans You seem to be sampling a very strange subset of humans. > There is little doubt that this will be applied across society at an unbelievable scale and speed. There's, in fact, lots of doubt. > In short, China’s economic model (low-corruption communistic capitalism) is working way better than liberal democratic models. For certain things, sure. For other things (like freedom of speech, personal liberties): very much not. > There are very few ways to compete with China without very strong leadership — and now, it seems, we have that chance. So, you want a "strong leader". How does that go down in history again? Anyway – do you think that in addition to being "strong" there are other aspects of a leader that you might want to have in addition? Like, I don't know, intelligence and compassion? Or are you just going for strength to smack everyone over the head? > And, with the global distribution of high-intelligence AI, there is plenty of room for distributed, decentralized local growth that can enable all people around the world to participate in economic development and super-abundant resources. Absolute meaningless dribble. It just needs a sprinkle of blockchain or something. > Things will continue to accelerate. And the biggest wellbeing challenges will come from overabundance of resources rather than their scarcity. So when can people suffering under these authoritarian strongmen expect this abundance? How much suffering will they have to take before utopia hits? Or, alternatively, before we can laugh you lot off for a few generations again.

michaelhoney 2y ago

What's happening in the US is in a whole other league of fucked

twixfel 2y ago
Yes the US is uniquely fucked, really. At least the previous global hegemon fought two world wars to lose its place. The US is basically committing geopolitical suicide at the top of its powers because of gender neutral toilets and the price of eggs. A rather pathetic country and people, sadly.
- MathMonkeyMan 2y ago
  Triggered. If we are pathetic, then look forward to our enlightened successors. I don't know what will happen in American politics, nor what effect it will have on the world or the permanence of those effects, but there are demagogues everywhere, America is not exceptional.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    America is exceptional in that it is the global hegemon self destructing before our eyes and for largely nonsensical domestic reasons. That is exceptional. And I don’t know about triggered, but rather just sad, because I was one of those people who really believed in the US at one time!
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    I look forward our new Chinese overlords.
- archagon 2y ago
  We’re getting fascism installed because a bunch of chuds want to be able to say “retard” again.
- yubblegum 2y ago
  The British Empire was not inflitrated and was not pursuing policies that prioritized another entity's interests. > powers because of gender neutral toilets and the price of eggs. A rather pathetic country and people, sadly. What is sad imo is thinking that the above the actual reason for the shenanigans. US has been unlike itself since 9/11. Everything changed.

bigbacaloa 2y ago

[dead]

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

I'm curious if what is happening in the US and what has happened in Britain with Brexit actually ends up slowing some of these marches towards illiberalism in other places. Like when people are upset at the direction of a country or current policies, they may take a "throw the bums out" attitude even if the alternative is far worse. But perhaps they're looking at the complete shit show in the US and how unproductive Brexit was and are thinking "OK, maybe not like that..." I mean, it sounds like Canada is more united than it's been in a long time in its shared opposition to Trump.

littlestymaar 2y ago
In France at least, Brexit made the idea of leaving the EU obsolete in political discourse, both on the left and far right. But at the same time French media just repeated the “it's a clumsy handwave from an autistic dude” narrative after Musk's Nazi salute so I'm not sure it will work this time.
- throw310822 2y ago
  Notice that this benevolence and protection by the media is granted to Musk (and Trump) by their complete subservience to Israel's demands and wants. Trump just proposed ethnic cleansing the Gaza Strip and cleaning up the rubble with American money and work so it can be handed over to Israel in a nice shape.
  - defrost 2y ago
    I suspect a large part of the subtext is that considerable real estate holdings, hotels, casinos, apartments, etc. will mysteriously end up slightly off book on some TrumpCo. spinoff or another. It's the new Riviera after all . . .
    - throw310822 2y ago
      No, that's missing the point. What hotels, casinos and apartments were promised to the Biden administration to flood Israel with money and weapons to flatten the Gaza strip into rubble and kill and maim hundreds of thousands? It's not important what leverage Israel has used to make yet another US president do exactly what they want, contrary to any idea of justice, international law, basic humanity and common sense. The point is that Israel has that kind of leverage and nobody is able to resist it.

nirui 2y ago

As I understand it, this wave of US policy change is inspired by a combination of white supremacy and US exceptionalism. But rest of the world is effected by few different things, for example, xenophobia in the case of EU and UK, expansionism in Russia, zionism in Israel, nationalism in China (and Japan, really) etc. It looked the same if you stand far, but they're all different, so I wouldn't call it "global". There is a documentary from Deutsche Welle titled "The rise of the ultra-right in the US": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrhREluLdBs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrhREluLdBs. Maybe worth a watch if you want to see an "outside" perspective on this.

pjc50 2y ago
The fear of foreigners or racial "others" is the common element. And some of the propaganda is common, too.
imacomputertoo 2y ago
The right wing of the US is not driven by white supremacy. It's driven by a belief in a variety of mostly false grievances, about immigration, the economy, the wealth gap, etc. Those bogus beliefs are held by white and non white people. Consider that Trump won almost 50% of Latino male voters. As a percentage of the vote, Trump did better with racial minorities and women in 2024 than 2020, and much better compared to 2016. White supremacy is real and it has some effect in US politics, but it's not a driving force anymore. I say this as someone who has lived both in and outside the US. The outside perspective is not always better. Germans may be seeing the US through the lens of their own history.
- nirui 2y ago
  Well, I would like to clarify that I was not criticizing any country. To me, all of those examples are just nations learning and exploring what's good and what's bad again under this new age. The world will adjust and slowly but surely get better. See? This time, so far no body is getting burned for claiming that the Earth is not the center of the universe. And for all the other points, only time will tell. BTW, I don't hate Mr. Trump either. When he was elected, I brought in some financial products anticipating his unconventional method (and most importantly, I did not buy in some other products). Now I seeing ~5% return in just half a month. I thank that man for his straightforward. So if I'd say, fearmongering is useless and opportunity for goodness is still reachable.