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Depends on your perspective. Many people would consider someone like Fauci non-partisan and more of a competent career expert, but Trumps people think he is ver

Depends on your perspective. Many people would consider someone like Fauci non-partisan and more of a competent career expert, but Trumps people think he is very political and purge people like that. At the FBI they purge people who are probably quite competent and not particularly partisan but happened to work on Trumps case, which is mostly about sending a message I think not do much about finding the right employees to work at the FBI. This is very un American in my view.

trhway 2y ago
>Fauci non-partisan and more of a competent career expert Then why did Fauci lie to Congress and got the Biden's pre-emptive pardon?
- jimkleiber 2y ago
  I think this is the person's point. Many people in the past would see Fauci as a prime example of someone who is just a non-partisan career government servant, while others, which it seems you and many people in the current administration, see people like him as overtly partisan and borderline evil. NB: I really disliked the preemptively pardoning. Like really really disliked it and wish it were not legal.
  - NekkoDroid 2y ago
    > NB: I really disliked the preemptively pardoning. Like really really disliked it and wish it were not legal. I also really hate it, but it's becoming more obvious with time that they to some degree were necessary in this case. Ideally they wouldn't be needed or possible, but Trump and his administration seem to have multiple axes to grind with anyone in the government not directly subserviant to him.
    - jimkleiber 2y ago
      Not necessary, just out of fear. They capitulated to Trump's threats instead of standing up and fighting hard for principles.
      - SauciestGNU 2y ago
        Sure, but Fauci should also not have to spend the twilight years of his very accomplished life defending himself from petulant fascists' revenge prosecutions.
        jimkleiber 2y ago
        Yes, emotionally I'd agree. However, legally, I think it's a very slippery slope. What if Don Jr shoots someone dead and then Trunp premptively pardons him so no one can investigate the shooting? I think the hard part of enforcing the law is enforcing it equally, even towards those we love the most.
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        I think enforcing the law is only important while there is rule of law. What the Republicans are doing now is rule by law. It's not a good-faith reading of laws, it's using raw state power to turn the legal apparatus against the perceived enemies of the state/regime. We're way past lofty ideals like equal application of the law. It's going to take a reconsideration of our social contract in order to live in a society where we once again protect the innocent and punish the guilty.
        jimkleiber 2y ago
        Or we just get beyond the idea of punishing the guilty and go to restorative justice.
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        But I want bad things to happen to bad people... I agree with restorative justice, but the people using a law as a weapon do not so I hope they see the same mercy they show their victims.
        jimkleiber 2y ago
- DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
  He didn't lie to Congress, and he got a preemptive pardon because Trump is vindictive and would 100% have ordered the DOJ to go after Fauci in any way possible.
  - trhway 2y ago
    https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114270/documents/HHRG-117-GO24-20211201-SD004.pdf https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114270/documents/... "Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), which is part of the NIH, told Congress in May that the NIH "has not ever and does not now fund gain-of-function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology."" which we know is a blatant lie - see NIH EcoHealth Alliance Wuhan grants (which even had the "Human Subjects Included" checkbox checked. As a bonus read on how they made there the coronavirus which was successfully infecting and killing mice engineered to have human cells). See also https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-dr-faucis-top-advisor-held-accountable-for-covid-19-federal-records-violations-undermining-nih-operations/ https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-dr-fauci... and https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-dr-fauci-held-publicly-accountable-by-select-subcommittee/ https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-dr-fauci...
    - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
      Fauci's statement was correct: the NIH does not fund gain-of-function research, according to the definition that has been drawn up to regulate such research. You seem to think that any manipulation of a virus is "gain-of-function." The technical term that regulators use of "gain of function of concern." There's a specific definition of that term that was drawn up in the 2010s, and that's what NIH applies.
      - trhway 2y ago
        yes, that old "i didn't have s-x with that woman". Nobody cares for that specific definition. CRISP-ering human receptor binding protein onto a non-human coronavirus in such a way that the resulting virus starts to infect and kill human cells is a "gain of function", plain and simple. And thus Fauci lied. It was his professional duty to add to his answer that the gain of function they funded in Wuhan that the Congress was asking him about isn't fitting whatever narrow technical definition NIH uses. So, even if to take your position, it would mean that Fauci lied by omission. And btw https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/ " “gain of function research of concern,” includes the generation of viruses with properties that do not exist in nature." So, even NIH defintion does cover Wuhan. So, Fauci lied. Blatantly. Even by NIH defintion. And this https://www.phe.gov/s3/dualuse/documents/gain-of-function.pdf https://www.phe.gov/s3/dualuse/documents/gain-of-function.pd... "Gain-of-function studies, or research that improves the ability of a pathogen to cause disease," The last link is exactly that 2014 document based on which the gain of function research was moved from US to in particular Wuhan. And Fauci was instrumental in that move. Edit: to the commenters below who cares so much about the definition that Fauci uses - please do tell what is that magical definition which doesn't match even the NIH documents (see the links above).

trhway 2y ago

>Fauci non-partisan and more of a competent career expert Then why did Fauci lie to Congress and got the Biden's pre-emptive pardon?

jimkleiber 2y ago
I think this is the person's point. Many people in the past would see Fauci as a prime example of someone who is just a non-partisan career government servant, while others, which it seems you and many people in the current administration, see people like him as overtly partisan and borderline evil. NB: I really disliked the preemptively pardoning. Like really really disliked it and wish it were not legal.
- NekkoDroid 2y ago
  > NB: I really disliked the preemptively pardoning. Like really really disliked it and wish it were not legal. I also really hate it, but it's becoming more obvious with time that they to some degree were necessary in this case. Ideally they wouldn't be needed or possible, but Trump and his administration seem to have multiple axes to grind with anyone in the government not directly subserviant to him.
  - jimkleiber 2y ago
    Not necessary, just out of fear. They capitulated to Trump's threats instead of standing up and fighting hard for principles.
    - SauciestGNU 2y ago
      Sure, but Fauci should also not have to spend the twilight years of his very accomplished life defending himself from petulant fascists' revenge prosecutions.
      - jimkleiber 2y ago
        Yes, emotionally I'd agree. However, legally, I think it's a very slippery slope. What if Don Jr shoots someone dead and then Trunp premptively pardons him so no one can investigate the shooting? I think the hard part of enforcing the law is enforcing it equally, even towards those we love the most.
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        I think enforcing the law is only important while there is rule of law. What the Republicans are doing now is rule by law. It's not a good-faith reading of laws, it's using raw state power to turn the legal apparatus against the perceived enemies of the state/regime. We're way past lofty ideals like equal application of the law. It's going to take a reconsideration of our social contract in order to live in a society where we once again protect the innocent and punish the guilty.
        jimkleiber 2y ago
        Or we just get beyond the idea of punishing the guilty and go to restorative justice.
        SauciestGNU 2y ago
        But I want bad things to happen to bad people... I agree with restorative justice, but the people using a law as a weapon do not so I hope they see the same mercy they show their victims.
        jimkleiber 2y ago
DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
He didn't lie to Congress, and he got a preemptive pardon because Trump is vindictive and would 100% have ordered the DOJ to go after Fauci in any way possible.
- trhway 2y ago
  https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114270/documents/HHRG-117-GO24-20211201-SD004.pdf https://www.congress.gov/117/meeting/house/114270/documents/... "Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), which is part of the NIH, told Congress in May that the NIH "has not ever and does not now fund gain-of-function research in the Wuhan Institute of Virology."" which we know is a blatant lie - see NIH EcoHealth Alliance Wuhan grants (which even had the "Human Subjects Included" checkbox checked. As a bonus read on how they made there the coronavirus which was successfully infecting and killing mice engineered to have human cells). See also https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-dr-faucis-top-advisor-held-accountable-for-covid-19-federal-records-violations-undermining-nih-operations/ https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-dr-fauci... and https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-dr-fauci-held-publicly-accountable-by-select-subcommittee/ https://oversight.house.gov/release/hearing-wrap-up-dr-fauci...
  - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
    Fauci's statement was correct: the NIH does not fund gain-of-function research, according to the definition that has been drawn up to regulate such research. You seem to think that any manipulation of a virus is "gain-of-function." The technical term that regulators use of "gain of function of concern." There's a specific definition of that term that was drawn up in the 2010s, and that's what NIH applies.
    - trhway 2y ago
      yes, that old "i didn't have s-x with that woman". Nobody cares for that specific definition. CRISP-ering human receptor binding protein onto a non-human coronavirus in such a way that the resulting virus starts to infect and kill human cells is a "gain of function", plain and simple. And thus Fauci lied. It was his professional duty to add to his answer that the gain of function they funded in Wuhan that the Congress was asking him about isn't fitting whatever narrow technical definition NIH uses. So, even if to take your position, it would mean that Fauci lied by omission. And btw https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/ " “gain of function research of concern,” includes the generation of viruses with properties that do not exist in nature." So, even NIH defintion does cover Wuhan. So, Fauci lied. Blatantly. Even by NIH defintion. And this https://www.phe.gov/s3/dualuse/documents/gain-of-function.pdf https://www.phe.gov/s3/dualuse/documents/gain-of-function.pd... "Gain-of-function studies, or research that improves the ability of a pathogen to cause disease," The last link is exactly that 2014 document based on which the gain of function research was moved from US to in particular Wuhan. And Fauci was instrumental in that move. Edit: to the commenters below who cares so much about the definition that Fauci uses - please do tell what is that magical definition which doesn't match even the NIH documents (see the links above).