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> Surely we all agree on medication and life-saving care for children. That is absolutely not a given. The currently in-power minority earnestly believe that p

> Surely we all agree on medication and life-saving care for children. That is absolutely not a given. The currently in-power minority earnestly believe that people are only due the level of healthcare they can personally fund and afford, period. > These are real questions that Americans are trying to answer right now. Which Americans? There's no grand debate happening right now, just a table-flipping tantrum. It's a fun exercise to do the chin-stroking thing of asking about efficiency and tax rates and so on, but it's so disconnected from the reality of the federal budget that it's hard to believe it's anything other than a cynical tactic. Military spending is the overwhelming majority of non-discretionary spending, and there are effectively no limits to it. Meanwhile, extremely high-leverage foreign aid (like the HIV-related treatments that have been mentioned) are always first on the chopping block, along with things like school lunches and early childhood education that have been demonstrated to be effectively free in terms of how much spending on remediating bad outcomes later in peoples' lives.

ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
The "grand debate" happened, Americans voted, and now the guy who won is delivering on his campaign promises. Whether you agree with Trump or not, this should not be a surprising outcome. He told us he was going to do this. >Military spending is the overwhelming majority of non-discretionary spending This is so wildly wrong and easily disproven that I really can't take the rest of what you say seriously.
- UncleMeat 2y ago
  But he isn't. This isn't framed as a "we need to bring down costs and stop paying for things and that's just going to be hard" initiative. This is framed as a mechanism of eliminating DEI programs. In the US spending is controlled by Congress. The Congress was voted on by the people. The idea that Trump throwing bombs into the federal budget is democracy but following Congress' passed budget isn't is ridiculous.
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    The idea you have is nice, but congress doesn't pass real budgets any more. That means that there is a lot more ability to make the money slosh around.
    - UncleMeat 2y ago
      Like it or not, the budgets passed by congress are budgets from the perspective of the constitution.
      - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
        We are wildly far beyond strict constitutionalism. This has been a trap for conservative causes for a very long time. We are now playing the game the same way the left does: win and govern.
        UncleMeat 2y ago
        You'll have to excuse me for being mortally terrified of "we are unencumbered by the law and will do whatever we want with power."
        ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
        Laws have never encumbered humans. We're governed by social norms and those have been destroyed: massive immigration, sexual mutilation of children, and wanton spending of US taxpayer dollars.
        UncleMeat 2y ago
        This ends with you shooting me in the head.
        ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
        deeply weird of you to say this.
- cemerick 2y ago
  >> Military spending is the overwhelming majority of non-discretionary spending > > This is so wildly wrong and easily disproven that I really can't take the rest of what you say seriously. sigh https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59729 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59729 Defense accounted for $805B out of a total discretionary budget of $1.7T. The next largest category (using the CBO's classifications, not mine) are veteran's benefits @ $131B, and it goes down from there. If you want to quibble with what "overwhelming majority" means, I guess you can do that, but I doubt that's interesting to anyone. I'll wait for you to 'disprove' the above. tbc, I am not surprised by any of this (as you say, he was very clear about his intentions), but let's not pretend that there is any policy-specific valence to the outcome of any vote in the current electoral system. People vote as they do for their own (usually terrible, and usually unrelated to policy) reasons, and the people that win get to do what they will with the power bestowed upon them. Insofar as Trump's and Republicans' actions make life for the bottom ~80% harder, don't be surprised as buyers' remorse sets in pretty heavily. And so goes the "debate".
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    You clearly wrote "non-discretionary". Now I see you meant "discretionary", but even so you're still wrong. It is not even a simple majority. 805/1722 = 0.467
    - cemerick 2y ago
      Ah, indeed, I was sloppy in my wording in that prior message. I should have said is that defense is the largest single category of discretionary spending, by a large margin. The thrust of the point remains.
      - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
        Okay, addressing the main thrust: Defense spending is absolutely a priority of this administration. SecDef Hegseth's whole thing is about reorienting the Pentagon back to American defense as the priority. Remember that getting Hegseth confirmed was a major push for the brand new admin. So spending won't go down but will hopefully be spent more effectively.

ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago

The "grand debate" happened, Americans voted, and now the guy who won is delivering on his campaign promises. Whether you agree with Trump or not, this should not be a surprising outcome. He told us he was going to do this. >Military spending is the overwhelming majority of non-discretionary spending This is so wildly wrong and easily disproven that I really can't take the rest of what you say seriously.

UncleMeat 2y ago
But he isn't. This isn't framed as a "we need to bring down costs and stop paying for things and that's just going to be hard" initiative. This is framed as a mechanism of eliminating DEI programs. In the US spending is controlled by Congress. The Congress was voted on by the people. The idea that Trump throwing bombs into the federal budget is democracy but following Congress' passed budget isn't is ridiculous.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  The idea you have is nice, but congress doesn't pass real budgets any more. That means that there is a lot more ability to make the money slosh around.
  - UncleMeat 2y ago
    Like it or not, the budgets passed by congress are budgets from the perspective of the constitution.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
      We are wildly far beyond strict constitutionalism. This has been a trap for conservative causes for a very long time. We are now playing the game the same way the left does: win and govern.
      - UncleMeat 2y ago
        You'll have to excuse me for being mortally terrified of "we are unencumbered by the law and will do whatever we want with power."
        ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
        Laws have never encumbered humans. We're governed by social norms and those have been destroyed: massive immigration, sexual mutilation of children, and wanton spending of US taxpayer dollars.
        UncleMeat 2y ago
        This ends with you shooting me in the head.
        ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
        deeply weird of you to say this.
cemerick 2y ago
>> Military spending is the overwhelming majority of non-discretionary spending > > This is so wildly wrong and easily disproven that I really can't take the rest of what you say seriously. sigh https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59729 https://www.cbo.gov/publication/59729 Defense accounted for $805B out of a total discretionary budget of $1.7T. The next largest category (using the CBO's classifications, not mine) are veteran's benefits @ $131B, and it goes down from there. If you want to quibble with what "overwhelming majority" means, I guess you can do that, but I doubt that's interesting to anyone. I'll wait for you to 'disprove' the above. tbc, I am not surprised by any of this (as you say, he was very clear about his intentions), but let's not pretend that there is any policy-specific valence to the outcome of any vote in the current electoral system. People vote as they do for their own (usually terrible, and usually unrelated to policy) reasons, and the people that win get to do what they will with the power bestowed upon them. Insofar as Trump's and Republicans' actions make life for the bottom ~80% harder, don't be surprised as buyers' remorse sets in pretty heavily. And so goes the "debate".
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  You clearly wrote "non-discretionary". Now I see you meant "discretionary", but even so you're still wrong. It is not even a simple majority. 805/1722 = 0.467
  - cemerick 2y ago
    Ah, indeed, I was sloppy in my wording in that prior message. I should have said is that defense is the largest single category of discretionary spending, by a large margin. The thrust of the point remains.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
      Okay, addressing the main thrust: Defense spending is absolutely a priority of this administration. SecDef Hegseth's whole thing is about reorienting the Pentagon back to American defense as the priority. Remember that getting Hegseth confirmed was a major push for the brand new admin. So spending won't go down but will hopefully be spent more effectively.