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California went a record 98 days with 10 hours of electricity from renewables

throwaway5292 2y ago
That sounds incredibly efficient.
bell-cot 2y ago
> The state went a record 98 of 116 days providing up to 10 hours of electricity with renewables alone Nice...but "up to 10" < 24, and 98 < 116, and "how easy was the first 1/4?" is generally a crap indicator of how easily a job can be finished.
phillipseamore 2y ago
"As a result of the increase in WWS supply and decrease in demand from 2019 to 2024, the daily-average gap between WWS supply and demand decreased gradually during that period. This culminated March 7 to June 30, 2024, when the 24-h average WWS supply reached 61.3 % of demand, versus 56.1 % of demand during the same period in 2023." Also "peaked at 83.2 % of daily demand on May 25." Note that demand in 2023 was 533.6 Gwh/day and went down to 529.1. "between June 2023 and June 2024, nameplate capacities of utility solar, wind, and batteries increased by ∼18%, ∼4%, and 73.3%, respectively" Cost and details of those capacity increases isn't mentioned but it seems that the average 31.7% increase in capacity only yielded a 5.2pp increase (mostly from the batteries which appear to handle 4 hours of load). The study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960148124023309 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096014812...
k310 2y ago
My electric rates more than doubled. No doubt for different reasons, including previously shelved infrastructure improvements such as underground lines. For whatever reason, it hurts like hell.
- g8oz 2y ago
  Yeah, also the article says "The California Public Utilities Commission, for instance, authorized its three largest utilities to collect $27 billion in wildfire prevention and insurance costs from ratepayers between 2019 and 2023."
- rayiner 2y ago
  Is the retail electric rate really almost $0.30? Here in Maryland, it’s half that, and charging my EV is like $0.11. At $0.30, having an EV wouldn’t be any cheaper than buying gas!
  - linotype 2y ago
    Eventually oil will run out and the only vehicles driving around will be electric. It’s not about cost, it’s about sustainability.
    - hedora 2y ago
      Oil will never run out. Civilization will collapse (due to CO2 emissions) before that happens, which will prevent extraction of the remaining (hard to get) oil.
      - lesuorac 2y ago
        If fossil fuels actually runs out then we'll just use pure plant oils anyways or synthetically create them.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      I thought part of the argument though was that renewables are now cheaper.
    - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
      So what are you going to make the rest of the car from. I think that when oil runs out we’re all screwed, back to XIX century.
      - linotype 2y ago
        Synthetic lubricants have been doable for a long time. It’s not about eliminating the usage, it’s about slowing down consumption.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
- hedora 2y ago
  Every year, I run the numbers to see how many years it will take for going completely off grid (to avoid paying for prior and current corruption at PG&E) to pay for itself. Every year, it decreases.
  - kylehotchkiss 2y ago
    SDG&E is equally bad or worse. And people in this region don’t all have Silicon Valley jobs to pay that bill. Apartments that barely run AC or heat often look at $300 monthly electric bills now.
    - knuckleheadsmif 2y ago
      Yup similar rates to PG&E although most of PG&Es customers don’t live in Silicon Valley. Only Municipal power companies like in Sacramento, LA, Palo Alto & Santa Clara to name a few have rates that are 1/3 to 1/2 of PG&E rates. They pay a small grid interconnection fee to the other utilities but beyond that their cost structure is much lower and they don’t have to return dividends to stock holders. Gas rates have a similar cost structure between municipal and public companies although for some reason there are fewer municipal gas companies at least for smaller cities.
- danny_codes 2y ago
  The taxpayer is covering PG&E's wildfire liabilities and deferred maintenance costs. You know, instead of the PG&E shareholders. Capitalism only applies to poors, as we all know.
- vantassell 2y ago
  Rates are high because we’re paying for all the wildfires the electric utilities have started.
  - knuckleheadsmif 2y ago
    No rates are high excluding the wildfires which has a separate surcharge to finance. But PGE having to provide power to wilderness areas in genera costs all PG&E customers to bear the cost and it’s a cost that Municipal power companies in CA don’t have and their rates an 1/2 or even more than PG&Es.
cma 2y ago
Real subheadline says: > The state went a record 98 of 116 days providing up to 10 hours Does the study clarify? "Up to” could mean almost anything, and could be rewritten ”no more than"
- hedora 2y ago
  Yeah, I don’t see how this is the record. California went many years without producing more than 10 hours of electricity from renewables. I wonder what the study actually found.
mistrial9 2y ago
electric bills for average residential customers in this PG&E area have increased five times in one year. The average residential bill has increased 56% in three years. This is after a state-backed replacement of senior management after the court losses. source: local news reporter Kevin Truong
- linotype 2y ago
  Electricity is expensive in California, more at 11.
ZeroGravitas 2y ago
The article kind of jumbles the paper it's reporting on, the paper's headline might be better (or linking the paper directly): "No blackouts or cost increases due to 100 % clean, renewable electricity powering California for parts of 98 days" > This paper uses data from the world's 5th-largest economy to show no blackouts occurred when wind-water-solar electricity supply exceeded 100 % of demand on California's main grid for a record 98 of 116 days from late winter to early summer, 2024, for an average of 4.84 (and maximum 10.1) hours/day
- aeternum 2y ago
  Why are the live statistics so different than the conclusions in the paper? Here you can see that CA power is more than double the cost of PJM, Southwest, and Midcontinent power. Whenever I look at it, CA is still be burning a huge amount of natural gas, especially overnight. https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso
  - ZeroGravitas 2y ago
    The paper is about short periods of a day when renewables are meeting more than 100% of demand. If that broke the grid then there would be little future in building out wind and solar beyond a small fraction of energy. The paper demonstrates it's not a problem, so further progress to making all of the grid's energy clean can continue.

That sounds incredibly efficient.

> The state went a record 98 of 116 days providing up to 10 hours of electricity with renewables alone Nice...but "up to 10" < 24, and 98 < 116, and "how easy was the first 1/4?" is generally a crap indicator of how easily a job can be finished.

phillipseamore 2y ago

"As a result of the increase in WWS supply and decrease in demand from 2019 to 2024, the daily-average gap between WWS supply and demand decreased gradually during that period. This culminated March 7 to June 30, 2024, when the 24-h average WWS supply reached 61.3 % of demand, versus 56.1 % of demand during the same period in 2023." Also "peaked at 83.2 % of daily demand on May 25." Note that demand in 2023 was 533.6 Gwh/day and went down to 529.1. "between June 2023 and June 2024, nameplate capacities of utility solar, wind, and batteries increased by ∼18%, ∼4%, and 73.3%, respectively" Cost and details of those capacity increases isn't mentioned but it seems that the average 31.7% increase in capacity only yielded a 5.2pp increase (mostly from the batteries which appear to handle 4 hours of load). The study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960148124023309 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096014812...

k310 2y ago

My electric rates more than doubled. No doubt for different reasons, including previously shelved infrastructure improvements such as underground lines. For whatever reason, it hurts like hell.

g8oz 2y ago
Yeah, also the article says "The California Public Utilities Commission, for instance, authorized its three largest utilities to collect $27 billion in wildfire prevention and insurance costs from ratepayers between 2019 and 2023."
rayiner 2y ago
Is the retail electric rate really almost $0.30? Here in Maryland, it’s half that, and charging my EV is like $0.11. At $0.30, having an EV wouldn’t be any cheaper than buying gas!
- linotype 2y ago
  Eventually oil will run out and the only vehicles driving around will be electric. It’s not about cost, it’s about sustainability.
  - hedora 2y ago
    Oil will never run out. Civilization will collapse (due to CO2 emissions) before that happens, which will prevent extraction of the remaining (hard to get) oil.
    - lesuorac 2y ago
      If fossil fuels actually runs out then we'll just use pure plant oils anyways or synthetically create them.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    I thought part of the argument though was that renewables are now cheaper.
  - rad_gruchalski 2y ago
    So what are you going to make the rest of the car from. I think that when oil runs out we’re all screwed, back to XIX century.
    - linotype 2y ago
      Synthetic lubricants have been doable for a long time. It’s not about eliminating the usage, it’s about slowing down consumption.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
hedora 2y ago
Every year, I run the numbers to see how many years it will take for going completely off grid (to avoid paying for prior and current corruption at PG&E) to pay for itself. Every year, it decreases.
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  SDG&E is equally bad or worse. And people in this region don’t all have Silicon Valley jobs to pay that bill. Apartments that barely run AC or heat often look at $300 monthly electric bills now.
  - knuckleheadsmif 2y ago
    Yup similar rates to PG&E although most of PG&Es customers don’t live in Silicon Valley. Only Municipal power companies like in Sacramento, LA, Palo Alto & Santa Clara to name a few have rates that are 1/3 to 1/2 of PG&E rates. They pay a small grid interconnection fee to the other utilities but beyond that their cost structure is much lower and they don’t have to return dividends to stock holders. Gas rates have a similar cost structure between municipal and public companies although for some reason there are fewer municipal gas companies at least for smaller cities.
danny_codes 2y ago
The taxpayer is covering PG&E's wildfire liabilities and deferred maintenance costs. You know, instead of the PG&E shareholders. Capitalism only applies to poors, as we all know.
vantassell 2y ago
Rates are high because we’re paying for all the wildfires the electric utilities have started.
- knuckleheadsmif 2y ago
  No rates are high excluding the wildfires which has a separate surcharge to finance. But PGE having to provide power to wilderness areas in genera costs all PG&E customers to bear the cost and it’s a cost that Municipal power companies in CA don’t have and their rates an 1/2 or even more than PG&Es.

cma 2y ago

Real subheadline says: > The state went a record 98 of 116 days providing up to 10 hours Does the study clarify? "Up to” could mean almost anything, and could be rewritten ”no more than"

hedora 2y ago
Yeah, I don’t see how this is the record. California went many years without producing more than 10 hours of electricity from renewables. I wonder what the study actually found.

mistrial9 2y ago

electric bills for average residential customers in this PG&E area have increased five times in one year. The average residential bill has increased 56% in three years. This is after a state-backed replacement of senior management after the court losses. source: local news reporter Kevin Truong

linotype 2y ago
Electricity is expensive in California, more at 11.

ZeroGravitas 2y ago

The article kind of jumbles the paper it's reporting on, the paper's headline might be better (or linking the paper directly): "No blackouts or cost increases due to 100 % clean, renewable electricity powering California for parts of 98 days" > This paper uses data from the world's 5th-largest economy to show no blackouts occurred when wind-water-solar electricity supply exceeded 100 % of demand on California's main grid for a record 98 of 116 days from late winter to early summer, 2024, for an average of 4.84 (and maximum 10.1) hours/day

aeternum 2y ago
Why are the live statistics so different than the conclusions in the paper? Here you can see that CA power is more than double the cost of PJM, Southwest, and Midcontinent power. Whenever I look at it, CA is still be burning a huge amount of natural gas, especially overnight. https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso https://www.gridstatus.io/live/caiso
- ZeroGravitas 2y ago
  The paper is about short periods of a day when renewables are meeting more than 100% of demand. If that broke the grid then there would be little future in building out wind and solar beyond a small fraction of energy. The paper demonstrates it's not a problem, so further progress to making all of the grid's energy clean can continue.