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Agreed. I don't understand why so many are choosing to rally around Bluesky and its AT Protocol, which is promising federation but has yet to deliver. Not to me

Agreed. I don't understand why so many are choosing to rally around Bluesky and its AT Protocol, which is promising federation but has yet to deliver. Not to mention it is backed by a for-profit company that has all the incentive to enshittify much like Facebook and Twitter have. Compare this to Mastodon (which unlike Bluesky) is just one service in a sea of many others using ActivityPub (Pixelfed, PeerTube, etc) which overall makes for a much more vibrant and promising platform. And unlike Bluesky, Mastodon has put federation into action; as an anecdote, even for posts with lots of replies, I've rarely seen more than two people from the same server comment on a given post. The diversity is astounding. Mastodon is already everything everyone wants from Bluesky in this regard. To me, it just looks like everyone is getting set up again to shoot themselves in the foot much like what happened with Twitter, and I don't understand why? Is it because choosing a server is to hard or stressful?

sumeno 2y ago
It's because people don't care about federated services, they care about services that are easy to use and have people on them and that's bluesky right now
- DeepPhilosopher 2y ago
  Sure, average people don't care about federation, but what about the techies at sites like Technology Review and The Verge who write these kinds of articles? They love to point out Bluesky's (yet to be seen in action) federation thanks to the AT Protocol, so you know they see the value in federation that the average person doesn't, but these reporters choose Bluesky, a platform with all the same warning signs as Twitter that barely has federation, something they purport to value despite the fact that ActivityPub and Mastodon exist and are much more developed and open?
  - dartos 2y ago
    > techies at sites like Technology Review and The Verge who write these kinds of articles It’s called “marketing” and “paid-for articles”
    - pfraze 2y ago
      We didn’t pay for this, coordinate with this, or have any idea it was coming out.
  - sumeno 2y ago
    Perhaps they recognize that a perfect decentralized platform without users doesn't matter as much as pushing the platforms being used to improve
bruce511 2y ago
Mastodon lacks what BlueSky has - a company with money driving the experience forward and getting everyone going in the same direction. Let's start with "no one has heard of mastodon" because no one is spending money marketing it to joe public. Sure it'll spread by word of mouth, but honestly that's not terribly compelling (because most of the current mouths are, um, the same people ranting about the incumbents. ) I don't disagree that the same process leads to the same outcome. I personally don't think bluesky will ultimately be any different to the rest. But the no-money approach of mastodon means its a very very slow burn, which will take a decade or more to succeed, and even then may not be what we expect when a billion people show up.
- EGreg 2y ago
  TruthSocial is a forked Mastodon
  - treyd 2y ago
    They've disabled federation and replaced the frontend with an alternative. They just needed something that worked out of the box.
- mariusor 2y ago
  > Mastodon lacks what BlueSky has - a company with money driving the experience forward and getting everyone going in the same direction. Which is a good thing from the spec point of view but maybe bad from a user adoption point of view. Even for the later you'd be wrong, as Threads is supposed to be an ActivityPub application.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >Let's start with "no one has heard of mastodon" because no one is spending money marketing it to joe public. Sure it'll spread by word of mouth, but honestly that's not terribly compelling While I think Mastodon's irrelevance is deserved, let's also be fair to the "incumbents": Facebook, Mysterious Twitter X, Reddit, et al. gained and maintain their critical mass from word of mouth. Many other would-be upstarts in history also usurped thrones by word of mouth, foremost example being Firefox against Internet Explorer. Mastodon's problem with becoming relevant (and also BlueSky's problem with upending Mysterious Twitter X) is far more fundamental than lack of awareness.
numpad0 2y ago
I think Mastodon lost the herd trust when it pivoted away from global federation and made confession of allegiance a firm requirement. They killed the canary and people left.
- EGreg 2y ago
  What confession? Link? I haven’t heard of this
  - numpad0 2y ago
    I'm referring to mass defederation, defederation list sharing and mutual surveillance that followed it.
    - Gud 2y ago
      Link please?
    - kemotep 2y ago
      Why is everyone required to federate with everyone on ActivityPub? What if I want to only see Wordpress, Peertube, and Pixelfed content but nothing from Mastodon or Lemmy? How is that problematic as an ActivityPub client? Or I only want Spanish language content?
      - dingnuts 2y ago
        in practice that's not the kind of content that is defederated. what is defederated is usually for ideological reasons, but sometimes it's because of illegal content (there's a lot of Japanese Misskey instances that will happily federate images to you that are questionably legal to possess in the US whether you want them on your drive or not) or out of spam control / distrust (small instances often have trouble federating) ironically when I used Mastodon, while dealing with these issues, I was unable to filter out other languages. So in addition to extremely questionable content, a lot of it was simply in another language. ActivityPub is a really half baked protocol and the sooner we realize that and move on from it the better. Personally, I didn't feel that defederation was an adequate defense against those MissKey instances and I decided running an instance is a very big liability.
mschuster91 2y ago
> To me, it just looks like everyone is getting set up again to shoot themselves in the foot much like what happened with Twitter, and I don't understand why? Is it because choosing a server is to hard or stressful? Mastodon has many MANY MANY issues. The first is that instance operators regularly abuse their users as hostages in personal petty fights. I don't care too much about drama, but there has been a lot of it regarding Israel/Palestine or Ukraine/Russia and instances defederating from each other as a result of said drama. The second one is instances can go down for whatever reason - the admins just being unable/unwilling to cope with moderation, running out of money, getting into trouble with the legal system, ... - and users can't move their post, DM and media history to another instance. And the third one is it takes them forever to ship updates. Bluesky is so much faster moving when it comes to implementing new features, but Mastodon ships even slower than Twitter which is an "achievement" in itself.
- shafyy 2y ago
  > And the third one is it takes them forever to ship updates. Bluesky is so much faster moving when it comes to implementing new features, but Mastodon ships even slower than Twitter which is an "achievement" in itself. Mastodon is a non-profit with a handfull of engineers. How can you compare their resources to something like Bluesky or even Twitter, that has thousands of engineers, is beyond me.
  - acjohnson55 2y ago
    Bluesky also has but a handful of engineers
    - zimpenfish 2y ago
      But was initially started internally by Twitter with millions of dollars of funding and since being split out has taken several million dollars in outside funding from VCs. Which does help grease the wheels somewhat, no?
      - acjohnson55 2y ago
JKCalhoun 2y ago
It kind of doesn't matter why people are rallying around BlueSky but simply that they are.
- SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
  Disagree. I’ll take this all seriously when people admit what the real drivers are. Admit why people are actually looking for an X alternative. It’s a mix of ideologues, performative outrage, foot stomping, and wanting the 2020 status quo.
  - archagon 2y ago
    It sounds like you’re saying that Bluesky users are actually just throwing a giant fit. That has not been my experience at all.
    - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
      Doesn’t have to be your experience to be true for the vast majority.
  - moritzwarhier 2y ago
    I cancelled my Twitter account in 2021 or so. I tried X again at some later point, I think even twice. A fresh account bombards you with far-right propaganda and outright lies. At the time at least this included hateful and incoherent rambling by Musk himself, which you couldn't unfollow (or ignore, it simply didn't work). Call it ideological, but I'm not going to spend my free time with this "content", especially when the platform clearly disregards repeated signals that I don't want to read hateful ideological propaganda comment no 73646445 by some alt right shill. I'm all for open discourse and dealing with other peoples differing opinions. But at this point, the "ideology" accusation by the far right against any other opinion is nothing but laughable. Well, it would be, if people didn't still pay it credibility. And no, I'm not a "leftist", "transgender activist", or whatever group gets to be public enemy of the day for these people. I did notice that Bluesky seems to have more politically left people. This kind of content is not very interesting to me, we already have Reddit. But for Bluesky, the platform bubble phenomenon didn't seem that strong to me. Appreciate the new features to build my own (interest) bubble. For political content, I think actual journalism and real-life discourse are most valuable.
logifail 2y ago
> The diversity is astounding Over the years I've come to the conclusion that there are people who say they are in favour of diversity but underneath only want their kind of diversity, not genuine diversity. Diversity of opinion would definitely be a feature, not a bug.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- intended 2y ago
  Over the years I’ve come to realize that coders will argue about protocol and what that says about someone’s personality - anytime, anywhere.
likeabatterycar 2y ago
99% of normies don't want to decide what dictatorial fiefdom (server) they wish to belong to.
- archagon 2y ago
  99% of normies can just pretend that mastodon.social is “Mastodon.”
  - jghn 2y ago
    I never understood why people even cared to choose a server. If you're only looking at posts from people you follow, it doesn't matter. Who cares what other people you don't know on your server are saying
    - numpad0 2y ago
      Because 2 out of top 3 servers and half of top 10 were in Japan and filled with content that they couldn't politically handle. Cutting that off and "just walk into the brightest place" couldn't happen at the same time, so the core devs and ops switched to the "Mastodon's strength is in small servers, pick any of the right one" narrative.
      - wkat4242 2y ago
        Can you tell more about the Japan thing? It's the first I've heard of it. What kind of content? I can't think of anything political about Japan that's super hard to handle.
        zimpenfish 2y ago
        I believe there's a fair amount of content on Japanese Mastodon servers that would land me, as an admin in the UK, in extremely hot water[0] if I was letting it be stored on my servers (whether I looked at it or not.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_the_...
TulliusCicero 2y ago
Because no one's actually going to Mastodon. It's really that simple. If you wanna delve into the details of why people so often avoid the platforms that FOSS enthusiasts tend to recommend, that's an interesting question, but we gotta be clear here, we already knows who's successful and who's not.
- bflesch 2y ago
  People one go where the technologically literate tell them go. If it wasn't for me, my family and friends wouldn't have gone on iOS, WhatsApp, Signal, you name it. If we give the thumbs up they know it's not bad if they migrate. Of course they can still decide against something if they don't see the value, but we can have significant impact on what platforms they use or not.
  - TulliusCicero 2y ago
    > People one go where the technologically literate tell them go. No they don't. If this was true, my wife's family would be on Telegram or Discord, haha. We actually did go into Telegram briefly, but they all dropped out. What got them to switch from SMS to WhatsApp was her parents temporarily moving to Austria.
    - bflesch 2y ago
      Maybe you don't have a lot of credibility with them ;) If someone would recommend me to Telegram I'd also doubt their credibility.
    - darthrupert 2y ago
      Technologically literate people don't recommend Telegram or Discord.
      - BobaFloutist 2y ago
        What videocall service other than Discord lets a normal user individually adjust other call participants' relative volume or even mute them? Because for me, that's the killer feature.
metabagel 2y ago
I tried so hard to like Mastodon, but discovery was actual work for me. On BlueSky, discovery is natural and easy. I think part of the issue is that you can’t do full text search across instances. You can only search on hashtags, and people don’t always use hashtags.
mapt 2y ago
Yes. And so complex to explain that it still isn't obvious what federation does or is after an afternoon of research by a tech enthusiast. Where does the data live? How does it spread? Who has control over it? You could tell me that, but don't. The answers are very much besides the point if you can't explain it and the advantages of the arrangement in five minutes to somebody on the opposite end of the normal distribution of technical understanding to your average HN account. Network effects dominate most social network pros and cons, so if you can only educate five percent of the general population there isn't much point.
btreecat 2y ago
> Compare this to Mastodon (which unlike Bluesky) is just one service in a sea of many others using ActivityPub (Pixelfed, PeerTube, etc) which overall makes for a much more vibrant and promising platform. The same can be said about the atproto as different apps are being developed for specific users like picture video only feeds and 3p clients for bsky. > And unlike Bluesky, Mastodon has put federation into action; as an anecdote, even for posts with lots of replies, I've rarely seen more than two people from the same server comment on a given post. The diversity is astounding. Mastodon is already everything everyone wants from Bluesky in this regard. I'm not sure I get your point. I run my own bsky PDS, and federation is working fine for me and my users. I see plenty of posts from others. > Is it because choosing a server is to hard or stressful? Are you asking if perception of difficulty is really impactful to people's choices? W/ bsky the hardest choice was the domain name purchase. And I didn't have to host my own server to do that either.
diggan 2y ago
> Agreed. I don't understand why so many are choosing to rally around Bluesky and its AT Protocol I think one of the major parts that resonates with people is the focus on data portability. AFAIK, ActivityPub doesn't help with wanting to move your data somewhere, without having to manually perform a async migration. > which is promising federation but has yet to deliver They seem to surely but slowly make headway on the federation stuff, there are more and more successful experiments of people hooking into the network. > it is backed by a for-profit company that has all the incentive to enshittify much like Facebook and Twitter have. That is true, hopefully the network will be resilient enough by that point, because I'm wary of that too. I guess time will tell how that goes. On a more optimistic note, there seems to be more and more efforts of trying to fund other non-Bluesky projects, including for core infrastructure. Example, not an endorsement: https://bsky.app/profile/freeourfeeds.com https://bsky.app/profile/freeourfeeds.com

sumeno 2y ago

It's because people don't care about federated services, they care about services that are easy to use and have people on them and that's bluesky right now

DeepPhilosopher 2y ago
Sure, average people don't care about federation, but what about the techies at sites like Technology Review and The Verge who write these kinds of articles? They love to point out Bluesky's (yet to be seen in action) federation thanks to the AT Protocol, so you know they see the value in federation that the average person doesn't, but these reporters choose Bluesky, a platform with all the same warning signs as Twitter that barely has federation, something they purport to value despite the fact that ActivityPub and Mastodon exist and are much more developed and open?
- dartos 2y ago
  > techies at sites like Technology Review and The Verge who write these kinds of articles It’s called “marketing” and “paid-for articles”
  - pfraze 2y ago
    We didn’t pay for this, coordinate with this, or have any idea it was coming out.
- sumeno 2y ago
  Perhaps they recognize that a perfect decentralized platform without users doesn't matter as much as pushing the platforms being used to improve

bruce511 2y ago

Mastodon lacks what BlueSky has - a company with money driving the experience forward and getting everyone going in the same direction. Let's start with "no one has heard of mastodon" because no one is spending money marketing it to joe public. Sure it'll spread by word of mouth, but honestly that's not terribly compelling (because most of the current mouths are, um, the same people ranting about the incumbents. ) I don't disagree that the same process leads to the same outcome. I personally don't think bluesky will ultimately be any different to the rest. But the no-money approach of mastodon means its a very very slow burn, which will take a decade or more to succeed, and even then may not be what we expect when a billion people show up.

EGreg 2y ago
TruthSocial is a forked Mastodon
- treyd 2y ago
  They've disabled federation and replaced the frontend with an alternative. They just needed something that worked out of the box.
mariusor 2y ago
> Mastodon lacks what BlueSky has - a company with money driving the experience forward and getting everyone going in the same direction. Which is a good thing from the spec point of view but maybe bad from a user adoption point of view. Even for the later you'd be wrong, as Threads is supposed to be an ActivityPub application.
Dalewyn 2y ago
>Let's start with "no one has heard of mastodon" because no one is spending money marketing it to joe public. Sure it'll spread by word of mouth, but honestly that's not terribly compelling While I think Mastodon's irrelevance is deserved, let's also be fair to the "incumbents": Facebook, Mysterious Twitter X, Reddit, et al. gained and maintain their critical mass from word of mouth. Many other would-be upstarts in history also usurped thrones by word of mouth, foremost example being Firefox against Internet Explorer. Mastodon's problem with becoming relevant (and also BlueSky's problem with upending Mysterious Twitter X) is far more fundamental than lack of awareness.

numpad0 2y ago

I think Mastodon lost the herd trust when it pivoted away from global federation and made confession of allegiance a firm requirement. They killed the canary and people left.

EGreg 2y ago
What confession? Link? I haven’t heard of this
- numpad0 2y ago
  I'm referring to mass defederation, defederation list sharing and mutual surveillance that followed it.
  - Gud 2y ago
    Link please?
  - kemotep 2y ago
    Why is everyone required to federate with everyone on ActivityPub? What if I want to only see Wordpress, Peertube, and Pixelfed content but nothing from Mastodon or Lemmy? How is that problematic as an ActivityPub client? Or I only want Spanish language content?
    - dingnuts 2y ago
      in practice that's not the kind of content that is defederated. what is defederated is usually for ideological reasons, but sometimes it's because of illegal content (there's a lot of Japanese Misskey instances that will happily federate images to you that are questionably legal to possess in the US whether you want them on your drive or not) or out of spam control / distrust (small instances often have trouble federating) ironically when I used Mastodon, while dealing with these issues, I was unable to filter out other languages. So in addition to extremely questionable content, a lot of it was simply in another language. ActivityPub is a really half baked protocol and the sooner we realize that and move on from it the better. Personally, I didn't feel that defederation was an adequate defense against those MissKey instances and I decided running an instance is a very big liability.

mschuster91 2y ago

> To me, it just looks like everyone is getting set up again to shoot themselves in the foot much like what happened with Twitter, and I don't understand why? Is it because choosing a server is to hard or stressful? Mastodon has many MANY MANY issues. The first is that instance operators regularly abuse their users as hostages in personal petty fights. I don't care too much about drama, but there has been a lot of it regarding Israel/Palestine or Ukraine/Russia and instances defederating from each other as a result of said drama. The second one is instances can go down for whatever reason - the admins just being unable/unwilling to cope with moderation, running out of money, getting into trouble with the legal system, ... - and users can't move their post, DM and media history to another instance. And the third one is it takes them forever to ship updates. Bluesky is so much faster moving when it comes to implementing new features, but Mastodon ships even slower than Twitter which is an "achievement" in itself.

shafyy 2y ago
> And the third one is it takes them forever to ship updates. Bluesky is so much faster moving when it comes to implementing new features, but Mastodon ships even slower than Twitter which is an "achievement" in itself. Mastodon is a non-profit with a handfull of engineers. How can you compare their resources to something like Bluesky or even Twitter, that has thousands of engineers, is beyond me.
- acjohnson55 2y ago
  Bluesky also has but a handful of engineers
  - zimpenfish 2y ago
    But was initially started internally by Twitter with millions of dollars of funding and since being split out has taken several million dollars in outside funding from VCs. Which does help grease the wheels somewhat, no?
    - acjohnson55 2y ago

JKCalhoun 2y ago

It kind of doesn't matter why people are rallying around BlueSky but simply that they are.

SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
Disagree. I’ll take this all seriously when people admit what the real drivers are. Admit why people are actually looking for an X alternative. It’s a mix of ideologues, performative outrage, foot stomping, and wanting the 2020 status quo.
- archagon 2y ago
  It sounds like you’re saying that Bluesky users are actually just throwing a giant fit. That has not been my experience at all.
  - SV_BubbleTime 2y ago
    Doesn’t have to be your experience to be true for the vast majority.
- moritzwarhier 2y ago
  I cancelled my Twitter account in 2021 or so. I tried X again at some later point, I think even twice. A fresh account bombards you with far-right propaganda and outright lies. At the time at least this included hateful and incoherent rambling by Musk himself, which you couldn't unfollow (or ignore, it simply didn't work). Call it ideological, but I'm not going to spend my free time with this "content", especially when the platform clearly disregards repeated signals that I don't want to read hateful ideological propaganda comment no 73646445 by some alt right shill. I'm all for open discourse and dealing with other peoples differing opinions. But at this point, the "ideology" accusation by the far right against any other opinion is nothing but laughable. Well, it would be, if people didn't still pay it credibility. And no, I'm not a "leftist", "transgender activist", or whatever group gets to be public enemy of the day for these people. I did notice that Bluesky seems to have more politically left people. This kind of content is not very interesting to me, we already have Reddit. But for Bluesky, the platform bubble phenomenon didn't seem that strong to me. Appreciate the new features to build my own (interest) bubble. For political content, I think actual journalism and real-life discourse are most valuable.

logifail 2y ago

> The diversity is astounding Over the years I've come to the conclusion that there are people who say they are in favour of diversity but underneath only want their kind of diversity, not genuine diversity. Diversity of opinion would definitely be a feature, not a bug.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
intended 2y ago
Over the years I’ve come to realize that coders will argue about protocol and what that says about someone’s personality - anytime, anywhere.

likeabatterycar 2y ago

99% of normies don't want to decide what dictatorial fiefdom (server) they wish to belong to.

archagon 2y ago
99% of normies can just pretend that mastodon.social is “Mastodon.”
- jghn 2y ago
  I never understood why people even cared to choose a server. If you're only looking at posts from people you follow, it doesn't matter. Who cares what other people you don't know on your server are saying
  - numpad0 2y ago
    Because 2 out of top 3 servers and half of top 10 were in Japan and filled with content that they couldn't politically handle. Cutting that off and "just walk into the brightest place" couldn't happen at the same time, so the core devs and ops switched to the "Mastodon's strength is in small servers, pick any of the right one" narrative.
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Can you tell more about the Japan thing? It's the first I've heard of it. What kind of content? I can't think of anything political about Japan that's super hard to handle.
      - zimpenfish 2y ago
        I believe there's a fair amount of content on Japanese Mastodon servers that would land me, as an admin in the UK, in extremely hot water[0] if I was letting it be stored on my servers (whether I looked at it or not.) [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography_laws_in_the_...

TulliusCicero 2y ago

Because no one's actually going to Mastodon. It's really that simple. If you wanna delve into the details of why people so often avoid the platforms that FOSS enthusiasts tend to recommend, that's an interesting question, but we gotta be clear here, we already knows who's successful and who's not.

bflesch 2y ago
People one go where the technologically literate tell them go. If it wasn't for me, my family and friends wouldn't have gone on iOS, WhatsApp, Signal, you name it. If we give the thumbs up they know it's not bad if they migrate. Of course they can still decide against something if they don't see the value, but we can have significant impact on what platforms they use or not.
- TulliusCicero 2y ago
  > People one go where the technologically literate tell them go. No they don't. If this was true, my wife's family would be on Telegram or Discord, haha. We actually did go into Telegram briefly, but they all dropped out. What got them to switch from SMS to WhatsApp was her parents temporarily moving to Austria.
  - bflesch 2y ago
    Maybe you don't have a lot of credibility with them ;) If someone would recommend me to Telegram I'd also doubt their credibility.
  - darthrupert 2y ago
    Technologically literate people don't recommend Telegram or Discord.
    - BobaFloutist 2y ago
      What videocall service other than Discord lets a normal user individually adjust other call participants' relative volume or even mute them? Because for me, that's the killer feature.

metabagel 2y ago

I tried so hard to like Mastodon, but discovery was actual work for me. On BlueSky, discovery is natural and easy. I think part of the issue is that you can’t do full text search across instances. You can only search on hashtags, and people don’t always use hashtags.

mapt 2y ago

Yes. And so complex to explain that it still isn't obvious what federation does or is after an afternoon of research by a tech enthusiast. Where does the data live? How does it spread? Who has control over it? You could tell me that, but don't. The answers are very much besides the point if you can't explain it and the advantages of the arrangement in five minutes to somebody on the opposite end of the normal distribution of technical understanding to your average HN account. Network effects dominate most social network pros and cons, so if you can only educate five percent of the general population there isn't much point.

btreecat 2y ago

> Compare this to Mastodon (which unlike Bluesky) is just one service in a sea of many others using ActivityPub (Pixelfed, PeerTube, etc) which overall makes for a much more vibrant and promising platform. The same can be said about the atproto as different apps are being developed for specific users like picture video only feeds and 3p clients for bsky. > And unlike Bluesky, Mastodon has put federation into action; as an anecdote, even for posts with lots of replies, I've rarely seen more than two people from the same server comment on a given post. The diversity is astounding. Mastodon is already everything everyone wants from Bluesky in this regard. I'm not sure I get your point. I run my own bsky PDS, and federation is working fine for me and my users. I see plenty of posts from others. > Is it because choosing a server is to hard or stressful? Are you asking if perception of difficulty is really impactful to people's choices? W/ bsky the hardest choice was the domain name purchase. And I didn't have to host my own server to do that either.

diggan 2y ago

> Agreed. I don't understand why so many are choosing to rally around Bluesky and its AT Protocol I think one of the major parts that resonates with people is the focus on data portability. AFAIK, ActivityPub doesn't help with wanting to move your data somewhere, without having to manually perform a async migration. > which is promising federation but has yet to deliver They seem to surely but slowly make headway on the federation stuff, there are more and more successful experiments of people hooking into the network. > it is backed by a for-profit company that has all the incentive to enshittify much like Facebook and Twitter have. That is true, hopefully the network will be resilient enough by that point, because I'm wary of that too. I guess time will tell how that goes. On a more optimistic note, there seems to be more and more efforts of trying to fund other non-Bluesky projects, including for core infrastructure. Example, not an endorsement: https://bsky.app/profile/freeourfeeds.com https://bsky.app/profile/freeourfeeds.com