4 ms·

Honestly, do these people hear themselves? I guess the product echo chamber is too loud to hear the needs of actual customers (or what they don’t need).

blibble 2y ago
the culture of toxic positivity at work I'm afraid
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  The Abilene Paradox. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox
  - jlokier 2y ago
    At last, thanks! A name for that strange time I was in a room of ~15 people chaired by me, who unanimously decided that PHP should be used for the website, made by volunteers. Yet when I asked individuals afterwards, none of them had wanted PHP, and only one or two ever used PHP. They chose it because they incorrectly thought that's what most people wanted, and they preferred to go along with their perception of group view so readily that nobody revealed their own tech preferences, despite a long discussion. It wasn't a compromise, because that would start with people knowing each others' preferences, then compromising. It was more like a bad default based on incorrect beliefs about each other. The strangest part, for me, was realising that this happened despite meeting for a good hour discussing alternative options, with several professional webdevs in the group. The groupthink effect is powerful! The effect of the group decision was not what people in the group had hoped for. Instead of producing an attractive common interest, it resulted in few volunteers, because everyone picked a tech choice they were not interested in working with themselves, assuming it would be of more interest to others.
    - neoecos 2y ago
      The same happened to me last year, on a company trip people voted to not go to a bioluminescent swimming, but when I confronted them everyone was really wanting to go. We ended up going (I can be a bit pushy), and everybody loved that experience.
    - cma 2y ago
      This is a really good book about all kinds of similar situations: Thomas Schelling: Micromotives and Macrobehavior https://www.amazon.com/Micromotives-Macrobehavior-Thomas-C-Schelling/dp/0393329461 https://www.amazon.com/Micromotives-Macrobehavior-Thomas-C-S... "In one famous example, Thomas C. Schelling shows that a slight-but-not-malicious preference to have neighbors of the same race eventually leads to completely segregated populations."
      - airstrike 2y ago
        Thanks for that rec. Added to my list!
    - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
      The Abilene Paradox is used to describe an unhealthy consensus. The problem is, is that a hallmark of a healthy consensus, is that no one is really happy with the decision, and a hallmark of an unhealthy consensus, is that no one is really happy with the decision.
      - thfuran 2y ago
        >a hallmark of a healthy consensus, is that no one is really happy with the decision No, no one gets exactly what they want (unless everyone wants the same thing), but that doesn't mean everyone is unhappy with the result.
        ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
        Fair point. It was really a play on words.
    - nayuki 2y ago
      Very nice. It reminds me of a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_beauty_contest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_beauty_contest : "a beauty contest where judges are rewarded for selecting the most popular faces among all judges, rather than those they may personally find the most attractive".
rchaud 2y ago
Nobody ever got fired for b̶u̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ I̶B̶M̶ slapping "AI-powered" on their product description.
red-iron-pine 2y ago
AI is too big of a thing to ignore. if you're a CTO/CIO in 2025 and you're not at least looking into it in a cursory manner the rest of the C-levels will assume you're slacking or dumb. of course it may be dumb to use it, and largely a way to extract value out of corporations for mediocre benefit, but that's still not yet certain at this point. Group think or not, you gotta at least do something with it. FOMO -- what if you miss that bus?

blibble 2y ago

the culture of toxic positivity at work I'm afraid

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
The Abilene Paradox. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox
- jlokier 2y ago
  At last, thanks! A name for that strange time I was in a room of ~15 people chaired by me, who unanimously decided that PHP should be used for the website, made by volunteers. Yet when I asked individuals afterwards, none of them had wanted PHP, and only one or two ever used PHP. They chose it because they incorrectly thought that's what most people wanted, and they preferred to go along with their perception of group view so readily that nobody revealed their own tech preferences, despite a long discussion. It wasn't a compromise, because that would start with people knowing each others' preferences, then compromising. It was more like a bad default based on incorrect beliefs about each other. The strangest part, for me, was realising that this happened despite meeting for a good hour discussing alternative options, with several professional webdevs in the group. The groupthink effect is powerful! The effect of the group decision was not what people in the group had hoped for. Instead of producing an attractive common interest, it resulted in few volunteers, because everyone picked a tech choice they were not interested in working with themselves, assuming it would be of more interest to others.
  - neoecos 2y ago
    The same happened to me last year, on a company trip people voted to not go to a bioluminescent swimming, but when I confronted them everyone was really wanting to go. We ended up going (I can be a bit pushy), and everybody loved that experience.
  - cma 2y ago
    This is a really good book about all kinds of similar situations: Thomas Schelling: Micromotives and Macrobehavior https://www.amazon.com/Micromotives-Macrobehavior-Thomas-C-Schelling/dp/0393329461 https://www.amazon.com/Micromotives-Macrobehavior-Thomas-C-S... "In one famous example, Thomas C. Schelling shows that a slight-but-not-malicious preference to have neighbors of the same race eventually leads to completely segregated populations."
    - airstrike 2y ago
      Thanks for that rec. Added to my list!
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    The Abilene Paradox is used to describe an unhealthy consensus. The problem is, is that a hallmark of a healthy consensus, is that no one is really happy with the decision, and a hallmark of an unhealthy consensus, is that no one is really happy with the decision.
    - thfuran 2y ago
      >a hallmark of a healthy consensus, is that no one is really happy with the decision No, no one gets exactly what they want (unless everyone wants the same thing), but that doesn't mean everyone is unhappy with the result.
      - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
        Fair point. It was really a play on words.
  - nayuki 2y ago
    Very nice. It reminds me of a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_beauty_contest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_beauty_contest : "a beauty contest where judges are rewarded for selecting the most popular faces among all judges, rather than those they may personally find the most attractive".

rchaud 2y ago

Nobody ever got fired for b̶u̶y̶i̶n̶g̶ I̶B̶M̶ slapping "AI-powered" on their product description.

red-iron-pine 2y ago

AI is too big of a thing to ignore. if you're a CTO/CIO in 2025 and you're not at least looking into it in a cursory manner the rest of the C-levels will assume you're slacking or dumb. of course it may be dumb to use it, and largely a way to extract value out of corporations for mediocre benefit, but that's still not yet certain at this point. Group think or not, you gotta at least do something with it. FOMO -- what if you miss that bus?