5 ms·

After reading the article I didn’t pick up what any of the advantages are of 28hr days other than being able to communicate with other regions of the world on c

by S_A_P 2y ago

After reading the article I didn’t pick up what any of the advantages are of 28hr days other than being able to communicate with other regions of the world on certain days. I suppose that could be a very important factor for some people who do work in a geographically dispersed area. A few things I would be concerned with are: 1) your SO is not on the same schedule and really for what isn’t a solid reason. I could see this becoming a source of resentment at some point. 2) you have to cut people out of your life vs explaining the schedule when they don’t understand why. I understand that the lectures would likely get tiresome at some point, but it seems a bit selfish to switch to this schedule when it could become problematic for friends and family members. 3) I think cardio and total health should be measured and monitored as part of the experiment. It is entirely possible that this schedule can have real benefits for health or at the least not negatively affect your health. You mention that you are able to workout more often and effectively, so it may also be interesting to track your fitness level on the schedule vs 24 hr days. It would just be anecdotal but it would at least be some data. I guess the only other things I would want to know is what factors pushed most to switching schedules? How long do you plan to stay on the schedule? How does your employer handle this schedule change? Or are you self employed/running a business? What do you think the biggest challenges are during the switch aside from being tired at hour 10-11? What does your SO really think about this schedule? The more I think about this, the more questions I have :)

fastball 2y ago
I'm not the OP, but I've considered doing this (have personally tried tri-phasic sleep in the past as an alternative) so I'm assuming the motivation might be the same: I just don't have a 24hr circadian rhythm. I'd guess mine is more like 26hr, not 28hr, but same idea applies. If I wake up after getting 8 hours of sleep, after 16 hours I am just... not sleepy. I can go to bed and not use screens and take melatonin and whatever else but I'm just not tired. So I end up staying later and getting less than 8 hours of sleep. Since many studies seem to show that getting a solid amount of sleep is good, my actual patterns seem bad. Much better then (maybe) to switch your cycle to be however many hours you need to get a solid night (~8hr) of sleep and feel tired at the end of the day, like the author is doing. EDIT: just read the original post[1] from the author and indeed this is the reason. He maybe explains it better than me so give a read. [1] https://sidhion.com/blog/28h_days/ https://sidhion.com/blog/28h_days/
- Centigonal 2y ago
  From the linked post: >Some time ago, I found myself with zero obligations to follow the usual daily routine: wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night (the “normal people schedule”). During my time awake, I was either working on side-projects or playing with my hobbies, and I’d go to sleep whenever I felt sleepy, wake up naturally (no alarms), and repeat. This led me to observe that without sticking to a daily routine, my sleep schedule would drift every day compared to the previous one. I also noticed that on most days I’d sleep a bit longer than 8h, sometimes 9h or even 10h. >An example of the sleep schedule drift: if on day X I went to sleep at 10:00 and woke up at 18:00, on day X+1 I’d go to bed at a time later than 10:00, and wake up later than 18:00. I almost never went to sleep at the same time on two consecutive days. >I realised that this was happening because it took me longer to feel tired than the “normal people schedule” assumed. If I followed it, sleeping would tend towards napping until the tiredness built up, at which point I’d need to sleep more. In fact, for most of my adult life (especially when I had a full-time job), I’d always have to force myself to go to bed during weekdays, and naturally this drift would occur, and then I’d “reset” during the weekend (often 10h+ of sleep), thus going back to forcing myself to sleep on weekdays to stick to the routine.
- Barrin92 2y ago
  >Since many studies seem to show that getting a solid amount of sleep is good, This one of the bigger myths around. There's not really scientific evidence that people sleep eight hours, or need that much[1]. It's one of those strange pop culture food pyramid like statements that just doesn't really have any evidence for it. It's much more likely that you simply need less sleep than that you have some circadian rhythm problem. [1]https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020/09/daniel-lieberman-exercised-eight-hours-sleep-myth https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020/09/daniel-lieberman-...
spoaceman7777 2y ago
The greatest benefit is that you can stay up until you're absolutely dog-tired every day, and not have to worry about all the rituals of "sleep hygiene", like limiting screen time, dimming lights, no coffee, etc. On a >24 hour sleep schedule, you _will_ be tired when it's time to sleep. Guaranteed. Not only that, you can sleep longer and will always feel well-rested. Meeting people all around the world, when they're collectively hanging out online, is also fantastic. Social platforms that involve more one-on-one contact, like X, Group chats, and similar, have completely different things going on at different hours. You start to make even more friends spread out across the world, and prevent getting stuck into ruts. There's also the benefit that conversations and the environment online is always fresh. You're always cycling into new time blocks that you haven't been active in for a few days. And, not just online. There's something to be said about experiencing (while fully awake) all of the different times of day where you live. You get to see sunrises and sunsets. Busy morning chatter of cars, and the world buzzing to life. The beyond-wee hours of the morning, when the city is so quiet you can hear a pin drop. Really though, the main benefit is the first one in this comment. You can live your life to the maximum extent, without scheduling in the extra time to manage getting to sleep, and feeling tired when you don't.
- pcthrowaway 2y ago
  You're making some assumptions here that I don't think hold. OP is likely able to do this because they have a longer circadian cycle (though I think it's still less than 28 hours) A person who might naturally have a 24.4 hour cycle without external stimuli (which is the average sleep researchers found) will likely have problems trying to adjust to a 26 hour cycle or longer, because even if they push themselves to stay up beyond the beginning of the sleep phase of their cycle on a regular basis, there is a good chance they'll wake up closer to the end of their sleep phase, and therefore might not get enough sleep. It's better to follow a sleep cycle tailored to your own circadian rhythm, which for most people conveniently aligns pretty well with the natural day. I say this as someone with non-24 who often does free-running sleep (where I've found my own cycle to be a little over 26 hours in winters, and closer to 24 hours in the summer)
  - 2y ago
r0ze-at-hn 2y ago
Biologically I have low melatonin and low cortisol. This means I have trouble falling asleep and then I have trouble waking up. Countless times in my life I have lived 26-28 hour cycles and otherwise I am in a never ending struggle to live a 24 hour cycle. Once I hit retirement I will definitely try this 28 hour cycle and might even switch to it permanently. Yeah there are obvious downsides having to do with SO, friends, etc. Having a husband with this same biological quirk would be ideal, but again once I no longer have to go into the office it will be really hard not to fall into a > 24 hour pattern.
bigiain 2y ago
> After reading the article I didn’t pick up what any of the advantages are of 28hr days Showing my age here but... I and some of my friends/classmates used to do the 6day 28hr cycle, to ensure we had access to the computer lab where "normal people" were asleep during the week, but were still mostly "in phase" with everybody else on weekends for socialising. For those of you who don't understand the term "computer lab", those were the days where my Comp Sci class involved writing/running Pascal code on a shared VAX-11/780 which (from memory here) shared 64MB of memory across all users of the 100 or so terminals attached to it. During the day, especially close to assignment deadlines, there were often long wait times to get one of the terminals. If you were there (and awake) at 10pm or 4am, there was usually only a handful of other people using it, with no waiting queues and with noticeably faster performance. (When I started 2nd year, the first year class behind me still learned Pascal, but got to use the new Macintosh lab. That kinda made the 28hr phase shifting unnecessary, but a bunch of us persisted anyway. By 3rd year, the VAX was under-utilised enough that they added a bunch of modems, and I could connect from home via a 1200/75 baud modem from the Osbourne1 Z80/CPM machine I had at home.)
aaarrm 2y ago
He literally points out multiple upsides throughout the entire very short blog post.
mmahemoff 2y ago
It doesn’t have to mean cutting people out of your life, but you’d have to be more organised in scheduling events. You’d also be unable to regularly attend recurring meetups. I knew of a sysadmin who followed this schedule so he could monitor the system at different times of day. There’s probably the same upside for people who manage certain 24-7 operations (though the downsides outweigh them in most cases).
jandrewrogers 2y ago
Decades ago I did a free-running sleep schedule for a few months while working a fairly intensive software project that required almost no interaction with others. I didn’t have a schedule, I just slept when I felt like it, and did resistance training throughout the day when I felt like it (I had a bunch of gym equipment in the same room as computers). Empirically, this turned into 26 hour days, so my hours came into phase with “normal” hours roughly every two weeks. It was a pretty comfortable lifestyle, felt pretty healthy, and I put on some muscle. The main challenges were two-fold. First, there is a significant part of the time where it doesn’t line up with store and restaurant hours that well, which is inconvenient. Second, there are few days every couple weeks where your schedule is completely out-of-phase with normal people which makes socializing nigh impossible on those days e.g. waking up at 8pm and going to bed at 2pm. However, since those days were predictable, I’d simply not schedule anything on those days. I don’t think this really works for a global business though. Many people around the world are really fussy about rigid schedules, and you will only overlap those a third of the time. All that said, I think for >24 hour days to be practical, it would be best in a synthetic environment where everyone is on the same clock with limited access to natural sunlight. I could totally imagine it being viable for something like a submarine.
- m463 2y ago
  I'll bet a lot of people did that experiment at the beginning of covid.
- econ 2y ago
  I did a similar experiment for 14 days when I was 13-14ish, it balanced out to 20-30 minutes wake and a 5 to 10 min nap. It was pretty wild. I coded (machine code) in bed until my head got heavy then I would nap and wake up shortly after with the task noticably organized in my head. It felt perfectly natural to sleep on it as well as to wake up when the data was parsed. I kinda lived in the twilight zone. Fun details: the room was perfectly dark. The tv was set to be so dark that I had to wait for my eyes to adjust to see the code. Nothing else was visible. The bed was tilted about a foot. The computer had no mouse pointer.
throwawayk7h 2y ago
Overall more hours awake. 7×8 < 6×9
- Freak_NL 2y ago
  > 7×8 < 6×9 Not usually, no. Typo?
  - cko 2y ago
    His statement is still correct, even though he inverted the sign. Fewer hours asleep means 2 more hours awake.
  - throwawayk7h 2y ago
    whoops!
somethingsome 2y ago
I don't follow such a program, but I sleep when needed, so if I'm sleepy, I go to sleep, and I wake up at wathever hour, no alarms. This means that sometimes I have long sleep nights, other times I only have naps, most of the time it is a mix between both. Lately I go to sleep around 3-6 in the morning, wake up around 8-11 and sometimes have naps during the day. (same principle for eating) I do this at least from 10 years without bad effects, the positive effects are that I'm more awake and feel fresh longer, in control of my mental power. It is quite easy to do it while having normal life obligations, I can wake up sooner if something needs to be done, and then, after the task, I can continue to do my day until sleepy, at which point I can sleep again. So, if I have many meeting on a day, I can stay up all day without issues, maybe I'll sleep more in the evening or following day. I think the quantity of sleep I require depends on the tasks I'm doing. If some task is particularly mentally exhausting I'll automatically do more naps during the day, this in turn makes me more efficient at solving difficult problems. It is extremely comfortable to solve hard problems in this way, when you work too long on it, you get sleepy, and as you wake up, you are again fully focused and with fresh perspectives.
MrsPeaches 2y ago
All in the original post: https://sidhion.com/blog/28h_days/ https://sidhion.com/blog/28h_days/ This was just the 1 year update. Idea is that you go to be when you feel tired.
notcrazylol 2y ago
I think its more of a lifestyle preference rather than 28h is better than 24h for everyone kinda rule. I, for instance, hate sleeping. I want to maximise my awake hours and sleep when only when I get tired. So this article speaks to me. The only thing I am worried about is long term health problems that might arise doing this stunt. Also if people cant respect or don't like your lifestyle, I don't see a point in being with them. If they cant move things around or if we cant find time for something, move on. Life is too short to deal with people problems that can be solved just by doing nothing.

by S_A_P 2y ago

fastball 2y ago

I'm not the OP, but I've considered doing this (have personally tried tri-phasic sleep in the past as an alternative) so I'm assuming the motivation might be the same: I just don't have a 24hr circadian rhythm. I'd guess mine is more like 26hr, not 28hr, but same idea applies. If I wake up after getting 8 hours of sleep, after 16 hours I am just... not sleepy. I can go to bed and not use screens and take melatonin and whatever else but I'm just not tired. So I end up staying later and getting less than 8 hours of sleep. Since many studies seem to show that getting a solid amount of sleep is good, my actual patterns seem bad. Much better then (maybe) to switch your cycle to be however many hours you need to get a solid night (~8hr) of sleep and feel tired at the end of the day, like the author is doing. EDIT: just read the original post[1] from the author and indeed this is the reason. He maybe explains it better than me so give a read. [1] https://sidhion.com/blog/28h_days/ https://sidhion.com/blog/28h_days/

Centigonal 2y ago
From the linked post: >Some time ago, I found myself with zero obligations to follow the usual daily routine: wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night (the “normal people schedule”). During my time awake, I was either working on side-projects or playing with my hobbies, and I’d go to sleep whenever I felt sleepy, wake up naturally (no alarms), and repeat. This led me to observe that without sticking to a daily routine, my sleep schedule would drift every day compared to the previous one. I also noticed that on most days I’d sleep a bit longer than 8h, sometimes 9h or even 10h. >An example of the sleep schedule drift: if on day X I went to sleep at 10:00 and woke up at 18:00, on day X+1 I’d go to bed at a time later than 10:00, and wake up later than 18:00. I almost never went to sleep at the same time on two consecutive days. >I realised that this was happening because it took me longer to feel tired than the “normal people schedule” assumed. If I followed it, sleeping would tend towards napping until the tiredness built up, at which point I’d need to sleep more. In fact, for most of my adult life (especially when I had a full-time job), I’d always have to force myself to go to bed during weekdays, and naturally this drift would occur, and then I’d “reset” during the weekend (often 10h+ of sleep), thus going back to forcing myself to sleep on weekdays to stick to the routine.
Barrin92 2y ago
>Since many studies seem to show that getting a solid amount of sleep is good, This one of the bigger myths around. There's not really scientific evidence that people sleep eight hours, or need that much[1]. It's one of those strange pop culture food pyramid like statements that just doesn't really have any evidence for it. It's much more likely that you simply need less sleep than that you have some circadian rhythm problem. [1]https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020/09/daniel-lieberman-exercised-eight-hours-sleep-myth https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020/09/daniel-lieberman-...

spoaceman7777 2y ago

The greatest benefit is that you can stay up until you're absolutely dog-tired every day, and not have to worry about all the rituals of "sleep hygiene", like limiting screen time, dimming lights, no coffee, etc. On a >24 hour sleep schedule, you _will_ be tired when it's time to sleep. Guaranteed. Not only that, you can sleep longer and will always feel well-rested. Meeting people all around the world, when they're collectively hanging out online, is also fantastic. Social platforms that involve more one-on-one contact, like X, Group chats, and similar, have completely different things going on at different hours. You start to make even more friends spread out across the world, and prevent getting stuck into ruts. There's also the benefit that conversations and the environment online is always fresh. You're always cycling into new time blocks that you haven't been active in for a few days. And, not just online. There's something to be said about experiencing (while fully awake) all of the different times of day where you live. You get to see sunrises and sunsets. Busy morning chatter of cars, and the world buzzing to life. The beyond-wee hours of the morning, when the city is so quiet you can hear a pin drop. Really though, the main benefit is the first one in this comment. You can live your life to the maximum extent, without scheduling in the extra time to manage getting to sleep, and feeling tired when you don't.

pcthrowaway 2y ago
You're making some assumptions here that I don't think hold. OP is likely able to do this because they have a longer circadian cycle (though I think it's still less than 28 hours) A person who might naturally have a 24.4 hour cycle without external stimuli (which is the average sleep researchers found) will likely have problems trying to adjust to a 26 hour cycle or longer, because even if they push themselves to stay up beyond the beginning of the sleep phase of their cycle on a regular basis, there is a good chance they'll wake up closer to the end of their sleep phase, and therefore might not get enough sleep. It's better to follow a sleep cycle tailored to your own circadian rhythm, which for most people conveniently aligns pretty well with the natural day. I say this as someone with non-24 who often does free-running sleep (where I've found my own cycle to be a little over 26 hours in winters, and closer to 24 hours in the summer)
- 2y ago

r0ze-at-hn 2y ago

Biologically I have low melatonin and low cortisol. This means I have trouble falling asleep and then I have trouble waking up. Countless times in my life I have lived 26-28 hour cycles and otherwise I am in a never ending struggle to live a 24 hour cycle. Once I hit retirement I will definitely try this 28 hour cycle and might even switch to it permanently. Yeah there are obvious downsides having to do with SO, friends, etc. Having a husband with this same biological quirk would be ideal, but again once I no longer have to go into the office it will be really hard not to fall into a > 24 hour pattern.

bigiain 2y ago

> After reading the article I didn’t pick up what any of the advantages are of 28hr days Showing my age here but... I and some of my friends/classmates used to do the 6day 28hr cycle, to ensure we had access to the computer lab where "normal people" were asleep during the week, but were still mostly "in phase" with everybody else on weekends for socialising. For those of you who don't understand the term "computer lab", those were the days where my Comp Sci class involved writing/running Pascal code on a shared VAX-11/780 which (from memory here) shared 64MB of memory across all users of the 100 or so terminals attached to it. During the day, especially close to assignment deadlines, there were often long wait times to get one of the terminals. If you were there (and awake) at 10pm or 4am, there was usually only a handful of other people using it, with no waiting queues and with noticeably faster performance. (When I started 2nd year, the first year class behind me still learned Pascal, but got to use the new Macintosh lab. That kinda made the 28hr phase shifting unnecessary, but a bunch of us persisted anyway. By 3rd year, the VAX was under-utilised enough that they added a bunch of modems, and I could connect from home via a 1200/75 baud modem from the Osbourne1 Z80/CPM machine I had at home.)

aaarrm 2y ago

He literally points out multiple upsides throughout the entire very short blog post.

mmahemoff 2y ago

It doesn’t have to mean cutting people out of your life, but you’d have to be more organised in scheduling events. You’d also be unable to regularly attend recurring meetups. I knew of a sysadmin who followed this schedule so he could monitor the system at different times of day. There’s probably the same upside for people who manage certain 24-7 operations (though the downsides outweigh them in most cases).

jandrewrogers 2y ago

Decades ago I did a free-running sleep schedule for a few months while working a fairly intensive software project that required almost no interaction with others. I didn’t have a schedule, I just slept when I felt like it, and did resistance training throughout the day when I felt like it (I had a bunch of gym equipment in the same room as computers). Empirically, this turned into 26 hour days, so my hours came into phase with “normal” hours roughly every two weeks. It was a pretty comfortable lifestyle, felt pretty healthy, and I put on some muscle. The main challenges were two-fold. First, there is a significant part of the time where it doesn’t line up with store and restaurant hours that well, which is inconvenient. Second, there are few days every couple weeks where your schedule is completely out-of-phase with normal people which makes socializing nigh impossible on those days e.g. waking up at 8pm and going to bed at 2pm. However, since those days were predictable, I’d simply not schedule anything on those days. I don’t think this really works for a global business though. Many people around the world are really fussy about rigid schedules, and you will only overlap those a third of the time. All that said, I think for >24 hour days to be practical, it would be best in a synthetic environment where everyone is on the same clock with limited access to natural sunlight. I could totally imagine it being viable for something like a submarine.

m463 2y ago
I'll bet a lot of people did that experiment at the beginning of covid.
econ 2y ago
I did a similar experiment for 14 days when I was 13-14ish, it balanced out to 20-30 minutes wake and a 5 to 10 min nap. It was pretty wild. I coded (machine code) in bed until my head got heavy then I would nap and wake up shortly after with the task noticably organized in my head. It felt perfectly natural to sleep on it as well as to wake up when the data was parsed. I kinda lived in the twilight zone. Fun details: the room was perfectly dark. The tv was set to be so dark that I had to wait for my eyes to adjust to see the code. Nothing else was visible. The bed was tilted about a foot. The computer had no mouse pointer.

throwawayk7h 2y ago

Overall more hours awake. 7×8 < 6×9

Freak_NL 2y ago
> 7×8 < 6×9 Not usually, no. Typo?
- cko 2y ago
  His statement is still correct, even though he inverted the sign. Fewer hours asleep means 2 more hours awake.
- throwawayk7h 2y ago
  whoops!

somethingsome 2y ago

I don't follow such a program, but I sleep when needed, so if I'm sleepy, I go to sleep, and I wake up at wathever hour, no alarms. This means that sometimes I have long sleep nights, other times I only have naps, most of the time it is a mix between both. Lately I go to sleep around 3-6 in the morning, wake up around 8-11 and sometimes have naps during the day. (same principle for eating) I do this at least from 10 years without bad effects, the positive effects are that I'm more awake and feel fresh longer, in control of my mental power. It is quite easy to do it while having normal life obligations, I can wake up sooner if something needs to be done, and then, after the task, I can continue to do my day until sleepy, at which point I can sleep again. So, if I have many meeting on a day, I can stay up all day without issues, maybe I'll sleep more in the evening or following day. I think the quantity of sleep I require depends on the tasks I'm doing. If some task is particularly mentally exhausting I'll automatically do more naps during the day, this in turn makes me more efficient at solving difficult problems. It is extremely comfortable to solve hard problems in this way, when you work too long on it, you get sleepy, and as you wake up, you are again fully focused and with fresh perspectives.

MrsPeaches 2y ago

All in the original post: https://sidhion.com/blog/28h_days/ https://sidhion.com/blog/28h_days/ This was just the 1 year update. Idea is that you go to be when you feel tired.

notcrazylol 2y ago

I think its more of a lifestyle preference rather than 28h is better than 24h for everyone kinda rule. I, for instance, hate sleeping. I want to maximise my awake hours and sleep when only when I get tired. So this article speaks to me. The only thing I am worried about is long term health problems that might arise doing this stunt. Also if people cant respect or don't like your lifestyle, I don't see a point in being with them. If they cant move things around or if we cant find time for something, move on. Life is too short to deal with people problems that can be solved just by doing nothing.