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So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? Would it be fair that one segment of th

by Produce 14y ago

So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? Would it be fair that one segment of the impoverished get special treatment? Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people. Who gives a crap about race or gender? It's bigger than that.

rmc 14y ago
So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? No, of course that's not fair. White men need very little help coding and getting involved in tech. However people who do need it, should get it.
natrius 14y ago
"Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people." Women code less than men of the same socioeconomic background. Not everything is about money. Plenty of these girls would make decent livings for themselves in other fields, but thanks to this program, some will find that programming is their true calling. That is a worthwhile effort.
- bilbo0s 14y ago
  Well... Not really. To be COMPLETELY fair, we would need to concede that in this particular demographic... That is... poor, black children... NO ONE has a real opportunity to code, male or female. So I think a PoorPeopleCode would have made more sense here. Having mentioned that, I believe firmly in the principle of people being able to contribute charitably to whatever cause they please. It's just that, quite naturally, there will develop in any culture... well ... let's call them 'preferences'. In India, the government just started an investigation of private schools which forced Dalits to wear different uniforms, stand in the back of classrooms etc. In Indonesia... it's not good to be a Chinese Christian. And... in the US ... I'm not letting anyone in on any secrets when I tell you that you don't want to be a black boy in our school system for instance. These 'preferences' usually manifest themselves in charitable giving and... VOILA. This doesn't make the charity 'bad', just puts it in line with most of the other charitable giving in the US. Not so much 'bad', as just... 'unexceptional'. Sorry to be so longwinded. Was just trying to be fair to both sides.
slurgfest 14y ago
In the current situation white men don't need any help with this, they already dominate the scene. Not that I really mind, I am a white man. But you could easily implement this plan and be lauded just by naming it something other than WhiteMenCode. If this were a government welfare program it would be important not to be partial but this is self-help. I think it would be very laudable to go to very white parts of Appalachia and found HillbilliesCode or whatever you wanted to name it.
wpietri 14y ago
Plenty of people give a crap about race and gender. In a way that works against black women. I got into programming because my dad did it, not because of some rational calculus of my abilities and society's needs. Role models are like that. At least until the point black women are vastly overrepresented in positions of power in the tech industry, I don't see anything wrong with a black woman programmer acting as a role model for young black women. If you would also like to set up PoorPeopleCode, nobody is stopping you.
colmvp 14y ago
'So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders?' Do white guys need more help in America? Statistically, white men have a higher chance at being well... anything. Actor. Model. CEOs. Executives. Managers. Interracial marriages. Politicians. Lack of racial profiling. White men getting worked up about this is like rich people getting worked up about poor people getting welfare.
- Produce 14y ago
  That's making the assumption that white people cannot possibly be poor and that black women cannot possibly be rich. I, for one, was poor most of my life and I'm white, albeit not in the US but just across the pond. There are plenty of white people who live in abject poverty. Deprivation of basic needs knows no colour, creed or gender. Why draw lines when it would benefit more people to refrain from doing so? That's the problem with statistics - they work on large masses and derive means, medians and modes. There are real people who aren't accurately represented by such statistics and making decisions solely on said statistics is unfair to them.
  - colmvp 14y ago
    "There are plenty of white people who live in abject poverty." Sure, but just by being another race, there is very little if any chance for non-white males to do certain things. A feel-good story like Jim Carrey would NEVER happen for a Asian male in America. Heck there was even a survey that found women estimate Asian men would need to earn about $200k to have the same 'status' as a white male. So yes, while being poor sucks for all, but be a poor minority is even worse.
    - EricDeb 14y ago
      I've heard my Asian friends make similar remarks about a lack of Asians in Hollywood. I see it as mainly a consequence of the fact that A. they don't traditionally view acting as a noble or lucrative career path and B. they only make up a small percentage of the population (4.5%)
clarke78 14y ago
100% agree. Continuing to create division with gender or race biased events/groups doesn't seem helpful. The greater issue here is the disadvantaged at large. Why continue to divide our efforts in smaller niche segments? What's wrong with allowing anyone to join in on these sessions? A lot of these groups, and their titles, just seem to further stigmatize the segments they're trying to help. True equality will only come when access to information and opportunity are available globally and without bias. Drawing lines in the sand isn't the way to go about change.
nollidge 14y ago
> Who gives a crap about race or gender? Bigots, for one. And beyond that, we all harbor subconscious biases that collectively act to disadvantage certain populations of people. > Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode Oh SURELY it would be BETTER. Are you actually physically sitting in a belfry made of ivory right now? Maybe that would be better, if someone had the resources and know-how to make it happen. But back here in banal reality, how about a black woman starts BlackGirlsCode, and a Latin@ person starts LatinKidsCode, and so on, with each of them using their particular strengths and personal networks, each biting off and fixing a tiny little portion of admittedly larger problems?

by Produce 14y ago

rmc 14y ago

So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders? No, of course that's not fair. White men need very little help coding and getting involved in tech. However people who do need it, should get it.

natrius 14y ago

"Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode, since that is the segment of society which, in fact, needs help - poor people." Women code less than men of the same socioeconomic background. Not everything is about money. Plenty of these girls would make decent livings for themselves in other fields, but thanks to this program, some will find that programming is their true calling. That is a worthwhile effort.

bilbo0s 14y ago
Well... Not really. To be COMPLETELY fair, we would need to concede that in this particular demographic... That is... poor, black children... NO ONE has a real opportunity to code, male or female. So I think a PoorPeopleCode would have made more sense here. Having mentioned that, I believe firmly in the principle of people being able to contribute charitably to whatever cause they please. It's just that, quite naturally, there will develop in any culture... well ... let's call them 'preferences'. In India, the government just started an investigation of private schools which forced Dalits to wear different uniforms, stand in the back of classrooms etc. In Indonesia... it's not good to be a Chinese Christian. And... in the US ... I'm not letting anyone in on any secrets when I tell you that you don't want to be a black boy in our school system for instance. These 'preferences' usually manifest themselves in charitable giving and... VOILA. This doesn't make the charity 'bad', just puts it in line with most of the other charitable giving in the US. Not so much 'bad', as just... 'unexceptional'. Sorry to be so longwinded. Was just trying to be fair to both sides.

slurgfest 14y ago

In the current situation white men don't need any help with this, they already dominate the scene. Not that I really mind, I am a white man. But you could easily implement this plan and be lauded just by naming it something other than WhiteMenCode. If this were a government welfare program it would be important not to be partial but this is self-help. I think it would be very laudable to go to very white parts of Appalachia and found HillbilliesCode or whatever you wanted to name it.

wpietri 14y ago

Plenty of people give a crap about race and gender. In a way that works against black women. I got into programming because my dad did it, not because of some rational calculus of my abilities and society's needs. Role models are like that. At least until the point black women are vastly overrepresented in positions of power in the tech industry, I don't see anything wrong with a black woman programmer acting as a role model for young black women. If you would also like to set up PoorPeopleCode, nobody is stopping you.

colmvp 14y ago

'So if I started a charity called WhiteMenCode, do you think that it would be fair to all of the other races and genders?' Do white guys need more help in America? Statistically, white men have a higher chance at being well... anything. Actor. Model. CEOs. Executives. Managers. Interracial marriages. Politicians. Lack of racial profiling. White men getting worked up about this is like rich people getting worked up about poor people getting welfare.

Produce 14y ago
That's making the assumption that white people cannot possibly be poor and that black women cannot possibly be rich. I, for one, was poor most of my life and I'm white, albeit not in the US but just across the pond. There are plenty of white people who live in abject poverty. Deprivation of basic needs knows no colour, creed or gender. Why draw lines when it would benefit more people to refrain from doing so? That's the problem with statistics - they work on large masses and derive means, medians and modes. There are real people who aren't accurately represented by such statistics and making decisions solely on said statistics is unfair to them.
- colmvp 14y ago
  "There are plenty of white people who live in abject poverty." Sure, but just by being another race, there is very little if any chance for non-white males to do certain things. A feel-good story like Jim Carrey would NEVER happen for a Asian male in America. Heck there was even a survey that found women estimate Asian men would need to earn about $200k to have the same 'status' as a white male. So yes, while being poor sucks for all, but be a poor minority is even worse.
  - EricDeb 14y ago
    I've heard my Asian friends make similar remarks about a lack of Asians in Hollywood. I see it as mainly a consequence of the fact that A. they don't traditionally view acting as a noble or lucrative career path and B. they only make up a small percentage of the population (4.5%)

clarke78 14y ago

100% agree. Continuing to create division with gender or race biased events/groups doesn't seem helpful. The greater issue here is the disadvantaged at large. Why continue to divide our efforts in smaller niche segments? What's wrong with allowing anyone to join in on these sessions? A lot of these groups, and their titles, just seem to further stigmatize the segments they're trying to help. True equality will only come when access to information and opportunity are available globally and without bias. Drawing lines in the sand isn't the way to go about change.

nollidge 14y ago

> Who gives a crap about race or gender? Bigots, for one. And beyond that, we all harbor subconscious biases that collectively act to disadvantage certain populations of people. > Surely it would be better to organise something like PoorPeopleCode Oh SURELY it would be BETTER. Are you actually physically sitting in a belfry made of ivory right now? Maybe that would be better, if someone had the resources and know-how to make it happen. But back here in banal reality, how about a black woman starts BlackGirlsCode, and a Latin@ person starts LatinKidsCode, and so on, with each of them using their particular strengths and personal networks, each biting off and fixing a tiny little portion of admittedly larger problems?