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I wonder if this also applies to people that live urban environments that don't drive and have to navigate walking or using the subway. From my anecdotal evide

I wonder if this also applies to people that live urban environments that don't drive and have to navigate walking or using the subway. From my anecdotal evidence, it does seem that the average elderly person in NYC is way more active and social than an elderly person in the suburbs. But of course, it could be that people that live in cities self-select.

netsharc 2y ago
The fact that they have physical exercise (i.e. walking) probably contributes a lot..
nine_k 2y ago
They sort of self-select by the ability to earn enough to afford living in a city like NYC. There's enough low-income n-th generation inhabitants though to form a control group.
- noduerme 2y ago
  Is there a correlation between income and incidence of alzheimers? I wasn't aware of one.
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    The more money you have, the longer you live?
    - noduerme 2y ago
      Yes but I'm not talking about quantity of older people in total, I'm talking about what percentage of them get a disease. With cancer, which is also more likely the older you get, studies show that the chances of dying from it are about 12% higher in the poorest counties than wealthier counties in the US. That is despite people in those counties having a shorter lifespan from all other things as well. So my question in response to the parent's throwaway class warfare riff was: Given two people who survive to the same age, let's say 80, is one more likely to get Alzheimers than the other based on income? The article here would suggest otherwise, given that taxi drivers and ambulance drivers are among the least well compensated workers and yet strangely have 1/3rd the rate of Alzheimers. [0] https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2020/persistent-poverty-increased-cancer-death-risk https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2020...
      - Retric 2y ago
        Sure, but in general people care about their future risks. So the difference between when you look 30 vs 80 year olds makes it important to define what you mean when you say more likely to get it.
        noduerme 2y ago
        My point is, if you live to be 80, you won't be any less likely to get Alzheimers if you're rich. So there's not really a correlation between 90 year olds walking around NYC dementia-free and the fact that they're wealthy enough to live to 90. I lived a couple years in a working class farm town in Spain where the old people were mostly not wealthy by but were really physically fit and mentally sharp. I think it was due to them having constant social interaction, every day walking around the plazas talking with their elderly friends. Some of these people were living alone in their mid-90s, and their diet mostly consisted of fried sardines, pork, olives, and cheap local wine. So living a good full life may be better protection against the ravages of dementia than living a wealthy one.
        Retric 2y ago
        Wealthy people are less likely to get Dementia, which has multiple causes one of which is Alzheimers. https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/news/wealthy-linked-reduced-dementia-risk/ https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/news/wealthy-linked-red...
  - nine_k 2y ago
    No correlation known to me, but likely still a bit of self-selection, at least for some large swaths, which can potentially bring in a confounding factor.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  There’s plenty of subsidized senior housing in New York. My grandmother is in a complex like that right now, and all she does is collect SS.
skybrian 2y ago
Even among people who live in NYC, the elderly people who are outside going for walks and taking public transport are going to be healthier. If they're sicker or weaker, they would be more likely to take a cab or stay indoors and have things delivered.
- eduction 2y ago
  If they’re sicker or weaker, they would be more likely to leave the city. It is a difficult place for anyone, but especially for those with trouble climbing lots of stairs, handling icy surfaces, repeatedly shedding and putting on clothes, etc. Or who are too old to sustain the illusion that their income is on an upward trajectory, and the current difficulties thus temporary.
hindsightbias 2y ago
What about navigating all those Walmarts and parking lots?
- LorenPechtel 2y ago
  The shorter your exposure to weather extremes the more you can tolerate and the less you need to be prepared. Consider some extremes of human tolerance: The 300 club. 200F (sauna) to -100F (south pole winter), naked other than foot protection. IIRC the requirement is to walk around the world in that -100F condition. Or, for very limited exposure: cryotherapy. I'm finding conflicting numbers on just how cold it can go. WebMD says some chambers go as low as -300F, although any chamber that cold your head stays outside. (That level of cold is done with nitrogen, the chamber itself will be an anoxic environment.) It's normally done with protection for all the small bits that stick out, but otherwise minimal attire.
- skybrian 2y ago
  When the weather is cold, driving means you’re not outside nearly as long when you go shopping, and you can go less often, in better weather.

netsharc 2y ago

The fact that they have physical exercise (i.e. walking) probably contributes a lot..

nine_k 2y ago

They sort of self-select by the ability to earn enough to afford living in a city like NYC. There's enough low-income n-th generation inhabitants though to form a control group.

noduerme 2y ago
Is there a correlation between income and incidence of alzheimers? I wasn't aware of one.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  The more money you have, the longer you live?
  - noduerme 2y ago
    Yes but I'm not talking about quantity of older people in total, I'm talking about what percentage of them get a disease. With cancer, which is also more likely the older you get, studies show that the chances of dying from it are about 12% higher in the poorest counties than wealthier counties in the US. That is despite people in those counties having a shorter lifespan from all other things as well. So my question in response to the parent's throwaway class warfare riff was: Given two people who survive to the same age, let's say 80, is one more likely to get Alzheimers than the other based on income? The article here would suggest otherwise, given that taxi drivers and ambulance drivers are among the least well compensated workers and yet strangely have 1/3rd the rate of Alzheimers. [0] https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2020/persistent-poverty-increased-cancer-death-risk https://www.cancer.gov/news-events/cancer-currents-blog/2020...
    - Retric 2y ago
      Sure, but in general people care about their future risks. So the difference between when you look 30 vs 80 year olds makes it important to define what you mean when you say more likely to get it.
      - noduerme 2y ago
        My point is, if you live to be 80, you won't be any less likely to get Alzheimers if you're rich. So there's not really a correlation between 90 year olds walking around NYC dementia-free and the fact that they're wealthy enough to live to 90. I lived a couple years in a working class farm town in Spain where the old people were mostly not wealthy by but were really physically fit and mentally sharp. I think it was due to them having constant social interaction, every day walking around the plazas talking with their elderly friends. Some of these people were living alone in their mid-90s, and their diet mostly consisted of fried sardines, pork, olives, and cheap local wine. So living a good full life may be better protection against the ravages of dementia than living a wealthy one.
        Retric 2y ago
        Wealthy people are less likely to get Dementia, which has multiple causes one of which is Alzheimers. https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/news/wealthy-linked-reduced-dementia-risk/ https://www.alzheimersresearchuk.org/news/wealthy-linked-red...
- nine_k 2y ago
  No correlation known to me, but likely still a bit of self-selection, at least for some large swaths, which can potentially bring in a confounding factor.
bobthepanda 2y ago
There’s plenty of subsidized senior housing in New York. My grandmother is in a complex like that right now, and all she does is collect SS.

skybrian 2y ago

Even among people who live in NYC, the elderly people who are outside going for walks and taking public transport are going to be healthier. If they're sicker or weaker, they would be more likely to take a cab or stay indoors and have things delivered.

eduction 2y ago
If they’re sicker or weaker, they would be more likely to leave the city. It is a difficult place for anyone, but especially for those with trouble climbing lots of stairs, handling icy surfaces, repeatedly shedding and putting on clothes, etc. Or who are too old to sustain the illusion that their income is on an upward trajectory, and the current difficulties thus temporary.

hindsightbias 2y ago

What about navigating all those Walmarts and parking lots?

LorenPechtel 2y ago
The shorter your exposure to weather extremes the more you can tolerate and the less you need to be prepared. Consider some extremes of human tolerance: The 300 club. 200F (sauna) to -100F (south pole winter), naked other than foot protection. IIRC the requirement is to walk around the world in that -100F condition. Or, for very limited exposure: cryotherapy. I'm finding conflicting numbers on just how cold it can go. WebMD says some chambers go as low as -300F, although any chamber that cold your head stays outside. (That level of cold is done with nitrogen, the chamber itself will be an anoxic environment.) It's normally done with protection for all the small bits that stick out, but otherwise minimal attire.
skybrian 2y ago
When the weather is cold, driving means you’re not outside nearly as long when you go shopping, and you can go less often, in better weather.