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The main message I take from this story is that a decent quorum of consumers want Apple to offer a smaller phone in each generation. The OP seems not to have mi

The main message I take from this story is that a decent quorum of consumers want Apple to offer a smaller phone in each generation. The OP seems not to have minded having to upgrade eventually, just not to a “virtual tablet.” I’ve heard others express the same desire.

zitterbewegung 2y ago
And Apple did this for two generations and not enough of people one bought it but it is still available used . https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-12/specs/ https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-12/specs/ (12 mini) https://support.apple.com/en-us/111873 https://support.apple.com/en-us/111873 I would recommend to return the phone and get the 13 mini which should last awhile
- gregoriol 2y ago
  The SE3 is good enough and not too big
  - vundercind 2y ago
    The only, only reason I ever buy anything but the smallest phone they offer is because the best cameras are never on the smallest devices. The extra size is pure down-side for me, and I don't really give a shit about slightly faster processors or what have you (I hardly burden the low-end ones), but I do find when looking back at older photos I always appreciate when I've had better cameras, so I hesitate to go too low-end on those. I'd pay about the same (or maybe even exactly the same, but feel a little annoyed about it) for a small Apple phone with the same camera as the expensive big models.
    - gregoriol 2y ago
      I choose the cheapest technically up-to-date one. I really don't care about the camera, the gap between generation is mostly not interesting. Actually the only reason I had to replace the last one is that Apple stopped supporting it with the latest iOS...
  - yumraj 2y ago
    I love SE3, had SE2 before it. I love the phone and the size, but I do NOT love the battery life.. It's manageable though.
    - datadrivenangel 2y ago
      battery life is great for moderate use in my experience. Won't support watching videos all day, but I usually get almost two days of life out of it.
    - gregoriol 2y ago
      Battery life is not excellent indeed. I have cables and extra battery most of the time when out for a day.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      I have https://iwalkmall.com/products/cute-portable-charger-4500mah https://iwalkmall.com/products/cute-portable-charger-4500mah to extend the battery life when I'm on the go
      - gregoriol 2y ago
        I'd be scared to break the thing: it is so big and directly connected. It wouldn't fit into a pocket anyway... Also I wouldn't choose one with a lightning connector, better with a USB-C (or A) female port, so I could also use it for some other devices too if necessary.
  - thr0w 2y ago
    It is rounded and slippery and big enough that it exposes double-tap to make the screen slide down.
    - gregoriol 2y ago
      I preferred the 4 and 5 size and shape. Hate the double-tap too...
- jamager 2y ago
  If I get a 13 mini today, updates will last 3 years. That is not much for what it is still a fairly expensive phone
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- sunrunner 2y ago
  +1 for the 13 mini if form factor is your primary concern (and given the sizes of even the 'small' mobile phone offerings of recent years I completely understand why that would be). I upgraded an eight year old SE (first generation) to an SE3 thinking it would be the obvious choice, then promptly replaced it with the 13 mini within a week (fortunately still available at the time). The difference is small on paper but noticable in your hands, and I honestly feel like the 13 mini is the spiritual successor to the SE series while the SE3 is a weird relative that you don't really want to have to interact with. For some reason the slightly more boxy and grip friendly design of the SE1 and SE2 was changed in the SE3 to have the curves that were introduced in (I think?) the iPhone 6, despite the SE series having a slightly more square design up to that point. But the SE3 also inherited the lower raw technical specs that were expected from the SE series. So somehow the 13 mini wins in terms of both form factor _and_ tech capabilities/new Apple features (such as Face ID over Touch ID).
  - fragmede 2y ago
    The problem with the 13 mini is it's lack of touchid. it's fine otherwise and I'd pick one up in a heartbeat if it did, but it doesn't, so I won't. really waiting to see how the SE4 goes. I'm. envious of some of android's devices and features, the main thing keeping me locked into apple's ecosystem is iMessage.
    - zitterbewegung 2y ago
      Yea I really want the iPad Air 4th gen TouchID on the power button which would keep the screen layout and size but still have the security of a fingerprint.
    - sunrunner 2y ago
      Agree, Touch ID is the one thing I still really miss from the SE. Face ID is usually not an issue, but there are always cases that result in more friction than with Touch ID. Sometimes you don't quite catch it at the right angle (and sometimes it sees you when you're not even looking), and other times you just don't quite have enough fave visible for it to work (for me usually when I'm doomscrolling in bed with my face squished into a pillow, so maybe that's a sign).
tonyedgecombe 2y ago
Yet when Apple offer those devices they don’t sell enough to warrant Apple keeping them in the lineup. Having said that I wonder if the article’s author would have been better off buying the SE. It is smaller, has Touch ID and will run his apps.
- spicybbq 2y ago
  Unfortunately, the upcoming SE 4 appears to have a 6.1 inch screen.
dilap 2y ago
I was going thru a box of old things the other day and came upon an old iPhone 4. God, what a beautiful device. In my opinion, the peak of iPhone design. I would love to have a phone that small again.
- ahmedfromtunis 2y ago
  That was also peak iphone hype era—Gizmodo-style and all.
  - dilap 2y ago
    Yeah, the devices were still new enough that they seemed kind of magical. I think it may all have been a terrible mistake though -- the world is more fun when people aren't glued to their phones.
- elvongray 2y ago
  The iPhone SE first generation, perfected that design. I really miss it :(
- amatecha 2y ago
  I felt like 3GS was the best form-factor. Fits so nicely in the hand and you can reach almost the entire screen with your thumb while holding it (more or less). I wish I could have just kept using that forever.
dnissley 2y ago
The impression I get is that these consumers who want a smaller phone are a very loud minority. They also often seem to overlap with the set of consumers who are extremely cheap. To Apple they are just bad customers who they will always have a hard time making money from -- not super worth catering to.
- woah 2y ago
  I also suspect that (at least on HN), the loud minority are heavy users of laptops and desktops. For the average person who has an old laptop for writing reports for school, or a crappy locked down laptop from their job, the phone is their main computing interface, so they want it to be bigger and nicer.
- sunrunner 2y ago
  I would gladly pay a bit more for a phone with a more manageable form factor and if I could be so lucky a battery life that's more than two days. Sadly it seems like I have to pay more for a product I want _less_, just because the demand for large form factor phones is high enough for Apple to consider just not bothering with. I understand market supply and demand, but eh... Funny how the German word for mobile phones exactly what most modern mobile phones aren't. Handy.
- koito17 2y ago
  > they are just bad customers who they will always have a hard time making money from The iPhone 12 mini still ended as one of the top 10 smartphone models sold in January 2021.[0] There was also a new iPhone SE model that was half the price and roughly the same size. I wouldn't be surprised that most decided the iPhone SE was a better deal at the time. In fact, the iPhone 11 and iPhone SE were the top-selling iPhone models of 2020.[1] [0] https://www.patentlyapple.com/2021/04/in-january-iphones-captured-6-out-of-the-top-10-smartphone-models-shipped-with-the-iphone-12-dominating-the-top-3-spots.html https://www.patentlyapple.com/2021/04/in-january-iphones-cap... [1] https://wccftech.com/iphone-11-iphone-se-top-selling-phones-2020/amp/ https://wccftech.com/iphone-11-iphone-se-top-selling-phones-...
  - zamadatix 2y ago
taeric 2y ago
I'm not clear where that read comes from? There is a single mention of "veritable tablets" in this post, and I'm not at all seeing this backed up with any evidence of latent demand?
- StressedDev 2y ago
  The author appears to be someone who gets angry or very annoyed when he does not get his way. The author may also just not like change. Basically, he is upset he had to buy a new phone after 6 years and the new phone was different from his old phone. I do not think his behavior is productive or helpful.
  - taeric 2y ago
    Which, to be fair and clear, there is nothing wrong with getting upset about having to upgrade. Nothing wrong with complaining. Sometimes, can probably be good? I'm just confused as this article doesn't even try to present this as a latent demand from others. Such that I don't understand the opening comment. Reminds me hearing folks complain about bad pockets in formal wear. Is largely a true statement, but I think it is also clear that the demand does not exist for it. Despite how vocal some people can be.
  - benj111 2y ago
    1. The article outright states that hes not pissed at Apple for 'only' supporting the phone for 6 years. I read that criticism as aimed at the software developers withdrawing support for older OS versions. I read the article more as a lament, rather than angry or annoyed. The author had a perfectly usable phone that he was forced from due to external factors, and the replacement doesn't improve upon its predecessor.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
EdJiang 2y ago
Isn't the iPhone SE basically that? Why didn't OP get the SE? https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/ https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/
creer 2y ago
And really "every other generation" would be pretty nice too. An actually small phone, actually supported for a few years (included in the guidelines for app writers and to remind web page designers that this exists). We could live with "every other generation". That would be better than "Eh, we don't believe in it anyway" kind of reluctance.
- stefandesu 2y ago
  I'd be happy with a new mini even every third generation. My 12 mini is still great except for the battery life (even after getting a new battery less than a year ago).

zitterbewegung 2y ago

And Apple did this for two generations and not enough of people one bought it but it is still available used . https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-12/specs/ https://www.apple.com/by/iphone-12/specs/ (12 mini) https://support.apple.com/en-us/111873 https://support.apple.com/en-us/111873 I would recommend to return the phone and get the 13 mini which should last awhile

gregoriol 2y ago
The SE3 is good enough and not too big
- vundercind 2y ago
  The only, only reason I ever buy anything but the smallest phone they offer is because the best cameras are never on the smallest devices. The extra size is pure down-side for me, and I don't really give a shit about slightly faster processors or what have you (I hardly burden the low-end ones), but I do find when looking back at older photos I always appreciate when I've had better cameras, so I hesitate to go too low-end on those. I'd pay about the same (or maybe even exactly the same, but feel a little annoyed about it) for a small Apple phone with the same camera as the expensive big models.
  - gregoriol 2y ago
    I choose the cheapest technically up-to-date one. I really don't care about the camera, the gap between generation is mostly not interesting. Actually the only reason I had to replace the last one is that Apple stopped supporting it with the latest iOS...
- yumraj 2y ago
  I love SE3, had SE2 before it. I love the phone and the size, but I do NOT love the battery life.. It's manageable though.
  - datadrivenangel 2y ago
    battery life is great for moderate use in my experience. Won't support watching videos all day, but I usually get almost two days of life out of it.
  - gregoriol 2y ago
    Battery life is not excellent indeed. I have cables and extra battery most of the time when out for a day.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    I have https://iwalkmall.com/products/cute-portable-charger-4500mah https://iwalkmall.com/products/cute-portable-charger-4500mah to extend the battery life when I'm on the go
    - gregoriol 2y ago
      I'd be scared to break the thing: it is so big and directly connected. It wouldn't fit into a pocket anyway... Also I wouldn't choose one with a lightning connector, better with a USB-C (or A) female port, so I could also use it for some other devices too if necessary.
- thr0w 2y ago
  It is rounded and slippery and big enough that it exposes double-tap to make the screen slide down.
  - gregoriol 2y ago
    I preferred the 4 and 5 size and shape. Hate the double-tap too...
jamager 2y ago
If I get a 13 mini today, updates will last 3 years. That is not much for what it is still a fairly expensive phone
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
sunrunner 2y ago
+1 for the 13 mini if form factor is your primary concern (and given the sizes of even the 'small' mobile phone offerings of recent years I completely understand why that would be). I upgraded an eight year old SE (first generation) to an SE3 thinking it would be the obvious choice, then promptly replaced it with the 13 mini within a week (fortunately still available at the time). The difference is small on paper but noticable in your hands, and I honestly feel like the 13 mini is the spiritual successor to the SE series while the SE3 is a weird relative that you don't really want to have to interact with. For some reason the slightly more boxy and grip friendly design of the SE1 and SE2 was changed in the SE3 to have the curves that were introduced in (I think?) the iPhone 6, despite the SE series having a slightly more square design up to that point. But the SE3 also inherited the lower raw technical specs that were expected from the SE series. So somehow the 13 mini wins in terms of both form factor _and_ tech capabilities/new Apple features (such as Face ID over Touch ID).
- fragmede 2y ago
  The problem with the 13 mini is it's lack of touchid. it's fine otherwise and I'd pick one up in a heartbeat if it did, but it doesn't, so I won't. really waiting to see how the SE4 goes. I'm. envious of some of android's devices and features, the main thing keeping me locked into apple's ecosystem is iMessage.
  - zitterbewegung 2y ago
    Yea I really want the iPad Air 4th gen TouchID on the power button which would keep the screen layout and size but still have the security of a fingerprint.
  - sunrunner 2y ago
    Agree, Touch ID is the one thing I still really miss from the SE. Face ID is usually not an issue, but there are always cases that result in more friction than with Touch ID. Sometimes you don't quite catch it at the right angle (and sometimes it sees you when you're not even looking), and other times you just don't quite have enough fave visible for it to work (for me usually when I'm doomscrolling in bed with my face squished into a pillow, so maybe that's a sign).

tonyedgecombe 2y ago

Yet when Apple offer those devices they don’t sell enough to warrant Apple keeping them in the lineup. Having said that I wonder if the article’s author would have been better off buying the SE. It is smaller, has Touch ID and will run his apps.

spicybbq 2y ago
Unfortunately, the upcoming SE 4 appears to have a 6.1 inch screen.

dilap 2y ago

I was going thru a box of old things the other day and came upon an old iPhone 4. God, what a beautiful device. In my opinion, the peak of iPhone design. I would love to have a phone that small again.

ahmedfromtunis 2y ago
That was also peak iphone hype era—Gizmodo-style and all.
- dilap 2y ago
  Yeah, the devices were still new enough that they seemed kind of magical. I think it may all have been a terrible mistake though -- the world is more fun when people aren't glued to their phones.
elvongray 2y ago
The iPhone SE first generation, perfected that design. I really miss it :(
amatecha 2y ago
I felt like 3GS was the best form-factor. Fits so nicely in the hand and you can reach almost the entire screen with your thumb while holding it (more or less). I wish I could have just kept using that forever.

dnissley 2y ago

The impression I get is that these consumers who want a smaller phone are a very loud minority. They also often seem to overlap with the set of consumers who are extremely cheap. To Apple they are just bad customers who they will always have a hard time making money from -- not super worth catering to.

woah 2y ago
I also suspect that (at least on HN), the loud minority are heavy users of laptops and desktops. For the average person who has an old laptop for writing reports for school, or a crappy locked down laptop from their job, the phone is their main computing interface, so they want it to be bigger and nicer.
sunrunner 2y ago
I would gladly pay a bit more for a phone with a more manageable form factor and if I could be so lucky a battery life that's more than two days. Sadly it seems like I have to pay more for a product I want _less_, just because the demand for large form factor phones is high enough for Apple to consider just not bothering with. I understand market supply and demand, but eh... Funny how the German word for mobile phones exactly what most modern mobile phones aren't. Handy.
koito17 2y ago
> they are just bad customers who they will always have a hard time making money from The iPhone 12 mini still ended as one of the top 10 smartphone models sold in January 2021.[0] There was also a new iPhone SE model that was half the price and roughly the same size. I wouldn't be surprised that most decided the iPhone SE was a better deal at the time. In fact, the iPhone 11 and iPhone SE were the top-selling iPhone models of 2020.[1] [0] https://www.patentlyapple.com/2021/04/in-january-iphones-captured-6-out-of-the-top-10-smartphone-models-shipped-with-the-iphone-12-dominating-the-top-3-spots.html https://www.patentlyapple.com/2021/04/in-january-iphones-cap... [1] https://wccftech.com/iphone-11-iphone-se-top-selling-phones-2020/amp/ https://wccftech.com/iphone-11-iphone-se-top-selling-phones-...
- zamadatix 2y ago

taeric 2y ago

I'm not clear where that read comes from? There is a single mention of "veritable tablets" in this post, and I'm not at all seeing this backed up with any evidence of latent demand?

StressedDev 2y ago
The author appears to be someone who gets angry or very annoyed when he does not get his way. The author may also just not like change. Basically, he is upset he had to buy a new phone after 6 years and the new phone was different from his old phone. I do not think his behavior is productive or helpful.
- taeric 2y ago
  Which, to be fair and clear, there is nothing wrong with getting upset about having to upgrade. Nothing wrong with complaining. Sometimes, can probably be good? I'm just confused as this article doesn't even try to present this as a latent demand from others. Such that I don't understand the opening comment. Reminds me hearing folks complain about bad pockets in formal wear. Is largely a true statement, but I think it is also clear that the demand does not exist for it. Despite how vocal some people can be.
- benj111 2y ago
  1. The article outright states that hes not pissed at Apple for 'only' supporting the phone for 6 years. I read that criticism as aimed at the software developers withdrawing support for older OS versions. I read the article more as a lament, rather than angry or annoyed. The author had a perfectly usable phone that he was forced from due to external factors, and the replacement doesn't improve upon its predecessor.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

EdJiang 2y ago

Isn't the iPhone SE basically that? Why didn't OP get the SE? https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/ https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/

creer 2y ago

And really "every other generation" would be pretty nice too. An actually small phone, actually supported for a few years (included in the guidelines for app writers and to remind web page designers that this exists). We could live with "every other generation". That would be better than "Eh, we don't believe in it anyway" kind of reluctance.

stefandesu 2y ago
I'd be happy with a new mini even every third generation. My 12 mini is still great except for the battery life (even after getting a new battery less than a year ago).