5 ms·

The same argument could be made for physical cash

by samsin 2y ago

theamk 2y ago
Well, yeah. Let's say someone has $100K in cash, in their home. What is their profession? All of the answers I can think of are criminal.
- Loughla 2y ago
  I buy, restore, and sell woodworking and metalworking tools and vehicles. If I did it full time I could have that much on hand. I think I have like 25k in case a really good deal pops up, and it's a very side gig.
  - toyg 2y ago
    In which case you really shouldn't tell a public forum about it. Maybe it's my jaded European mindset, but - rich people have been a target since the dawn of civilization, flaunting wealth is a good way to attract attention from bad people.
    - Loughla 2y ago
      The chances of someone finding me through this public forum are very low. Following this username takes you to a person from Reddit who I am not. If you follow the clues in my posts, you'll narrow it down to a farmer who also works in colleges, and who lived in the Midwest at some point, but doesn't anymore, and whose parents live in an area of the world that is kind of arid. There's a lot of those type of people. I'm more concerned about locals finding out. That's why I don't talk about the cash I have on hand in my real life, ever. I feel like that's relatively easy to do?
  - duped 2y ago
    That's insane and irresponsible. There's a reason that you can't make large "cash" purchases in physical cash - even with a certified or cashier's check you're limited to under $50k total or $100k/day before getting into private banking where your limits are higher.
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      > There's a reason that you can't make large "cash" purchases in physical cash Seems like you can?
    - Loughla 2y ago
      >There's a reason that you can't make large "cash" purchases in physical cash I don't understand what you mean with this. And also, yes you can? I've purchased cattle (~100k) and vehicles (5-40k) with cash. It's not insane and irresponsible. I legitimately do not understand your attitude with that. As long as you don't walk around with 100k in your hand waving it around, what's the danger? The world isn't as bad as the news would have you believe. Also, Some people prefer doing business without involving electronics. I've bought things using cash, silver, canning jars, and baseball cards. I prefer to barter for goods and labor, but some people prefer cash. What's the problem with that?
- llm_trw 2y ago
  Computer programmer. You just need to have been in a country that's had a civil war to realise how useful a pile of cash is for getting out quickly.
  - beeflet 2y ago
    you are losing a lot of value to inflation to support that much liquidity
    - fooker 2y ago
      If you live in an unstable situation this 5-10% downside per year can end up saving the lives of you and your family. Almost everyone I know if fairly stable third world countries keep about half a month of expenses in cash even after digital payments are predominant.
    - llm_trw 2y ago
      I'm alive because my father did the same. How much value is your life worth?
    - whythre 2y ago
      This mindset can only be born of stability. If your country descends into chaos, having money on hand is better than having money in a bank, and therefore, not on hand.
      - Loughla 2y ago
        Silver coins is my bet. I'm not a prepper by any means, but I always keep some silver on hand. If nothing else, they make good gifts for kids. They feel like little pirates when you give them silver coins.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  Had a Ukrainian girlfriend that had $25,000 in her go bag, just in case. She was not even close to wealthy and that was a considerable fraction of her yearly salary. She was the complete opposite of a criminal.
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
Physical cash is much more difficult to: 1. Handle in large quantities. The ransom paid here was $1 million. With crypto, transferring that much is a few keystrokes. With cash, it's basically a large bag of cash that needs to be moved around. 2. Hold for ransom. Given point #1, kidnappers (of people and data) know that it's much easier to demand payment of large amounts in crypto than cash. If you kidnap a rich person in the crypto world, kidnappers know it's easy for him to sign over a very large amount of bitcoin quickly, which looks to be what happened here. Even for a very wealthy person, it's not logistically easy to get a million dollars in cash, never mind hand it over in a way that isn't a huge risk for the kidnappers. 3. Launder. Crypto tumblers are still a thing despite US government crackdown. Laundering cash with recorded serial numbers is much harder. I'm not denying that crypto may have some legitimate uses, but it's basically a dream come true for criminals.
- cbsmith 2y ago
  It's logistically pretty easy these days for a wealthy person without an ounce of crypto to buy crypto and transfer it to someone else. On the other hand, if your business was a scam and you needed to explain where $1 million went to...
  - nujabe 2y ago
    Your comment that it is logistically easy for the random rich guy to buy large sum of crypto is simply not true. For one, you'd have to go through KYC which takes time, and you can't just open an account and buy 100k in crypto (yet alone millions) as you'd need a history of activity on your account and multiple limit increases.
    - jamiek88 2y ago
      This is very naive. There are many many ways for the wealthy to procure bitcoin with zero restrictions.
      - djbusby 2y ago
notatoad 2y ago
yes, if you are holding millions or more in physical cash on your person, you're putting yourself at a significant safety risk. that's why people don't do that very often, or if they do they walk around with armed guards until they aren't holding that cash anymore.
sealeck 2y ago
Not that many people keep a big stack of physical cash under their pillow, and organisations that do keep cash are well-known robbery targets (e.g. banks, mints). It's substantially harder to kidnap someone and force them to sell their business and then give the cash to you than it is to make them transfer their crypto. And realistically most people's wealth will be in a company or some shares, etc.
- trillic 2y ago
  This is why we don’t do Bearer Bonds anymore. Die Hard inspired too many?
potato3732842 2y ago
"but you see it's different because those thiefs have badges"

The same argument could be made for physical cash

by samsin 2y ago

The same argument could be made for physical cash

Well, yeah. Let's say someone has $100K in cash, in their home. What is their profession? All of the answers I can think of are criminal.

Loughla 2y ago
I buy, restore, and sell woodworking and metalworking tools and vehicles. If I did it full time I could have that much on hand. I think I have like 25k in case a really good deal pops up, and it's a very side gig.
- toyg 2y ago
  In which case you really shouldn't tell a public forum about it. Maybe it's my jaded European mindset, but - rich people have been a target since the dawn of civilization, flaunting wealth is a good way to attract attention from bad people.
  - Loughla 2y ago
    The chances of someone finding me through this public forum are very low. Following this username takes you to a person from Reddit who I am not. If you follow the clues in my posts, you'll narrow it down to a farmer who also works in colleges, and who lived in the Midwest at some point, but doesn't anymore, and whose parents live in an area of the world that is kind of arid. There's a lot of those type of people. I'm more concerned about locals finding out. That's why I don't talk about the cash I have on hand in my real life, ever. I feel like that's relatively easy to do?
- duped 2y ago
  That's insane and irresponsible. There's a reason that you can't make large "cash" purchases in physical cash - even with a certified or cashier's check you're limited to under $50k total or $100k/day before getting into private banking where your limits are higher.
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    > There's a reason that you can't make large "cash" purchases in physical cash Seems like you can?
  - Loughla 2y ago
    >There's a reason that you can't make large "cash" purchases in physical cash I don't understand what you mean with this. And also, yes you can? I've purchased cattle (~100k) and vehicles (5-40k) with cash. It's not insane and irresponsible. I legitimately do not understand your attitude with that. As long as you don't walk around with 100k in your hand waving it around, what's the danger? The world isn't as bad as the news would have you believe. Also, Some people prefer doing business without involving electronics. I've bought things using cash, silver, canning jars, and baseball cards. I prefer to barter for goods and labor, but some people prefer cash. What's the problem with that?
llm_trw 2y ago
Computer programmer. You just need to have been in a country that's had a civil war to realise how useful a pile of cash is for getting out quickly.
- beeflet 2y ago
  you are losing a lot of value to inflation to support that much liquidity
  - fooker 2y ago
    If you live in an unstable situation this 5-10% downside per year can end up saving the lives of you and your family. Almost everyone I know if fairly stable third world countries keep about half a month of expenses in cash even after digital payments are predominant.
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    I'm alive because my father did the same. How much value is your life worth?
  - whythre 2y ago
    This mindset can only be born of stability. If your country descends into chaos, having money on hand is better than having money in a bank, and therefore, not on hand.
    - Loughla 2y ago
      Silver coins is my bet. I'm not a prepper by any means, but I always keep some silver on hand. If nothing else, they make good gifts for kids. They feel like little pirates when you give them silver coins.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Had a Ukrainian girlfriend that had $25,000 in her go bag, just in case. She was not even close to wealthy and that was a considerable fraction of her yearly salary. She was the complete opposite of a criminal.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

Physical cash is much more difficult to: 1. Handle in large quantities. The ransom paid here was $1 million. With crypto, transferring that much is a few keystrokes. With cash, it's basically a large bag of cash that needs to be moved around. 2. Hold for ransom. Given point #1, kidnappers (of people and data) know that it's much easier to demand payment of large amounts in crypto than cash. If you kidnap a rich person in the crypto world, kidnappers know it's easy for him to sign over a very large amount of bitcoin quickly, which looks to be what happened here. Even for a very wealthy person, it's not logistically easy to get a million dollars in cash, never mind hand it over in a way that isn't a huge risk for the kidnappers. 3. Launder. Crypto tumblers are still a thing despite US government crackdown. Laundering cash with recorded serial numbers is much harder. I'm not denying that crypto may have some legitimate uses, but it's basically a dream come true for criminals.

cbsmith 2y ago
It's logistically pretty easy these days for a wealthy person without an ounce of crypto to buy crypto and transfer it to someone else. On the other hand, if your business was a scam and you needed to explain where $1 million went to...
- nujabe 2y ago
  Your comment that it is logistically easy for the random rich guy to buy large sum of crypto is simply not true. For one, you'd have to go through KYC which takes time, and you can't just open an account and buy 100k in crypto (yet alone millions) as you'd need a history of activity on your account and multiple limit increases.
  - jamiek88 2y ago
    This is very naive. There are many many ways for the wealthy to procure bitcoin with zero restrictions.
    - djbusby 2y ago

notatoad 2y ago

yes, if you are holding millions or more in physical cash on your person, you're putting yourself at a significant safety risk. that's why people don't do that very often, or if they do they walk around with armed guards until they aren't holding that cash anymore.

sealeck 2y ago

Not that many people keep a big stack of physical cash under their pillow, and organisations that do keep cash are well-known robbery targets (e.g. banks, mints). It's substantially harder to kidnap someone and force them to sell their business and then give the cash to you than it is to make them transfer their crypto. And realistically most people's wealth will be in a company or some shares, etc.

trillic 2y ago
This is why we don’t do Bearer Bonds anymore. Die Hard inspired too many?

potato3732842 2y ago

"but you see it's different because those thiefs have badges"