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I don't disagree with your message, but- > coupled with all other stuff like illegal border crossing I've seen a few comments talk about this, but this doesn'

I don't disagree with your message, but- > coupled with all other stuff like illegal border crossing I've seen a few comments talk about this, but this doesn't affect my day-to-day literally at all. This never crosses my mind because there aren't illegals I come across or maybe just don't ever cross paths with. Is this primarily a border state thing? If so, wouldn't that limit it to just CA, TX, NM, AZ? And only one of those is a swing state.

cryptonector 2y ago
At what rate of illegal crossings would you be affected?
- consteval 2y ago
  Impossible to say, but as someone who lives in Texas and has actually lived on the border, it's simply not a real problem. Nobody notices, or cares, about it. What happens is people attribute seemingly random events to illegal immigration. Higher prices? Immigration! (never mind that immigrants are cheap labor, which should lower prices). Crime? Immigration! (never mind crime continues to go down and has been for decades). Your shoes untied? Immigration! It's just such a stark disconnect from reality. They're just used as scapegoats, enemies of the American people.
  - cryptonector 2y ago
    > Higher prices? Immigration! (never mind that immigrants are cheap labor, which should lower prices). One argument I often see is that housing costs are increased by the large increase in population. Can you speak to that? Can you imagine a rate that might be too high? 1 million/year? 10 m/y? 20 m/y? 50 m/y? There must be a limit, even for you.
    - consteval 2y ago
      They aren't buying houses, they're very poor. The housing crisis is caused primarily by middle class and rich domestic white people. The problem is we're not building affordable housing, the reason being housing is the primary and most effective investment for the middle class. People who already own property have the highest incentive imaginable to NOT build more housing. Affordable housing means your investment depreciates.
      - thehappypm 2y ago
        No, the housing crisis is caused by an imbalance of supply and demand. Immigration (legal or otherwise) increases demand for housing. Your argument that immigrants are poor doesn’t change that, immigrants still live somewhere, and that drives the demand for housing up. Increasing the housing supply is a solution, but allowing demand to increase is also exacerbating the issue
        consteval 2y ago
        Yes, that's what I said. Housing isn't being built due to low supply - and immigrants actually RAISE the supply, not lower it, because they are cheap labor. Demand has not been the issue nor is it solvable. You can't make people go away, you can only increase housing (supply). We're not increasing supply enough because domestic Americans are greedy. We've set the incentives up in such a way to maximize the amount of friction to building new houses. Nobody with a house wants more homes built.
        thehappypm 2y ago
        “Immigrants raise supply” would only be true if each immigrant on average created more housing units than they consume, which is demonstrably false.
        consteval 2y ago
        The math isn't this simple, because immigrants are willing to work jobs domestic people won't, and they're willing to do it for a low wage. Sometimes, even a wage below the federal minimum. But even past that, what I'm saying isn't "demonstrably false". I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Suppose I work for a contractor, and it typically takes a crew of 20 to build a house. I'm being incredibly generous to your argument here, because in the neighborhoods I've seen it's done with 5 people. But suppose 20. I would only need to be involved in 21 jobs across my career to produce more than I've used. Really, it's even less than that, because homes house multiple people. To me, that not only seems achievable, that seems obvious. This is a misunderstanding of the US housing crisis. The problem with housing in the US is that it's an investment, so there's a real cost to Americans when it comes to building affordable housing. That's why nobody would do it - it's bad for the people with capital, and the people with capital matter more. The people with hypothetical future capital don't matter much.
hackernewds 2y ago
You are clearly not representative, as so isn't most of HN, of the average demographic that has to worry about their blue collar jobs (whether that be a real risk or not)
- cutemonster 2y ago
  People who worry about immigration, have their own job security in mind, rather than worrying about crime, you're saying? (Makes sense to me I guess, just sounds different from what Trump seemed to be taking about: crime and eating people's pets. I'm in Europe and don't know much.)
  - thehappypm 2y ago
    Middle America sees immigration as: Outsiders coming in and changing the society. People who don’t speak English sending their kids to their schools. Moving into their neighborhoods and making it more competitive for their friends and family to move into their neighborhoods. Creating “bad neighborhoods” and increasing crime.
    - cutemonster 2y ago
      Lots of different things then (you're saying), thanks
valval 2y ago
You have people looking out for your future regarding topics you don’t know to watch out for. This happens all the time everywhere around you, that people are fighting silent battles so you don’t have to.

cryptonector 2y ago

At what rate of illegal crossings would you be affected?

consteval 2y ago
Impossible to say, but as someone who lives in Texas and has actually lived on the border, it's simply not a real problem. Nobody notices, or cares, about it. What happens is people attribute seemingly random events to illegal immigration. Higher prices? Immigration! (never mind that immigrants are cheap labor, which should lower prices). Crime? Immigration! (never mind crime continues to go down and has been for decades). Your shoes untied? Immigration! It's just such a stark disconnect from reality. They're just used as scapegoats, enemies of the American people.
- cryptonector 2y ago
  > Higher prices? Immigration! (never mind that immigrants are cheap labor, which should lower prices). One argument I often see is that housing costs are increased by the large increase in population. Can you speak to that? Can you imagine a rate that might be too high? 1 million/year? 10 m/y? 20 m/y? 50 m/y? There must be a limit, even for you.
  - consteval 2y ago
    They aren't buying houses, they're very poor. The housing crisis is caused primarily by middle class and rich domestic white people. The problem is we're not building affordable housing, the reason being housing is the primary and most effective investment for the middle class. People who already own property have the highest incentive imaginable to NOT build more housing. Affordable housing means your investment depreciates.
    - thehappypm 2y ago
      No, the housing crisis is caused by an imbalance of supply and demand. Immigration (legal or otherwise) increases demand for housing. Your argument that immigrants are poor doesn’t change that, immigrants still live somewhere, and that drives the demand for housing up. Increasing the housing supply is a solution, but allowing demand to increase is also exacerbating the issue
      - consteval 2y ago
        Yes, that's what I said. Housing isn't being built due to low supply - and immigrants actually RAISE the supply, not lower it, because they are cheap labor. Demand has not been the issue nor is it solvable. You can't make people go away, you can only increase housing (supply). We're not increasing supply enough because domestic Americans are greedy. We've set the incentives up in such a way to maximize the amount of friction to building new houses. Nobody with a house wants more homes built.
        thehappypm 2y ago
        “Immigrants raise supply” would only be true if each immigrant on average created more housing units than they consume, which is demonstrably false.
        consteval 2y ago
        The math isn't this simple, because immigrants are willing to work jobs domestic people won't, and they're willing to do it for a low wage. Sometimes, even a wage below the federal minimum. But even past that, what I'm saying isn't "demonstrably false". I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. Suppose I work for a contractor, and it typically takes a crew of 20 to build a house. I'm being incredibly generous to your argument here, because in the neighborhoods I've seen it's done with 5 people. But suppose 20. I would only need to be involved in 21 jobs across my career to produce more than I've used. Really, it's even less than that, because homes house multiple people. To me, that not only seems achievable, that seems obvious. This is a misunderstanding of the US housing crisis. The problem with housing in the US is that it's an investment, so there's a real cost to Americans when it comes to building affordable housing. That's why nobody would do it - it's bad for the people with capital, and the people with capital matter more. The people with hypothetical future capital don't matter much.

hackernewds 2y ago

You are clearly not representative, as so isn't most of HN, of the average demographic that has to worry about their blue collar jobs (whether that be a real risk or not)

cutemonster 2y ago
People who worry about immigration, have their own job security in mind, rather than worrying about crime, you're saying? (Makes sense to me I guess, just sounds different from what Trump seemed to be taking about: crime and eating people's pets. I'm in Europe and don't know much.)
- thehappypm 2y ago
  Middle America sees immigration as: Outsiders coming in and changing the society. People who don’t speak English sending their kids to their schools. Moving into their neighborhoods and making it more competitive for their friends and family to move into their neighborhoods. Creating “bad neighborhoods” and increasing crime.
  - cutemonster 2y ago
    Lots of different things then (you're saying), thanks

valval 2y ago

You have people looking out for your future regarding topics you don’t know to watch out for. This happens all the time everywhere around you, that people are fighting silent battles so you don’t have to.