7 ms·

Not at all wanting to be confrontational- genuinely curious; if they’re not on the far right then where are they? The Democrats seem fairly centrist, and it’s t

by _s 2y ago

Not at all wanting to be confrontational- genuinely curious; if they’re not on the far right then where are they? The Democrats seem fairly centrist, and it’s the more wayward independents (eg Greens) that seem to be on the Left. My perspective is European & Australian, so I wonder if that skews it.

markus_zhang 2y ago
Non-American here too, but since your perspective is EU, what is Nazi party when the Republican party is far right? Like, far far far right?
- wiggidy 2y ago
  Depends on how you define 'right'. Were they conservative? No, they wanted to upend society and create one that is nothing like anything ever seen before. They were also anti-religion. In many ways, they were anti-tradition, and I wouldn't consider their obsession with bringing back dead traditions to be traditional. Were they hateful, racist, etc.? Yes, up to you if that's considered 'right'. Were they, like how American political parties are, friends of big business? Not really, they wanted to sponsor monopolies and whatnot but also wanted the businesses to have no influence over the state, rather the other way around, the state can force the big business to do what they want. As far as if it actually worked that way when they were in power, I'm not sure.
archagon 2y ago
They are absolutely far right, they just hate it when you call them that.
- stogot 2y ago
  Because it’s illogical. Far right implies there is an edge to a majority “right”. Calling the entire majority “far right” is just lazy adhominem attacks. Calling the entire the democrat party far left is equally stupid.
  - dns_snek 2y ago
    Calling the democratic party "far left" is stupid for a different reason, viewed from a global perspective, they're probably best positioned as centre-right.
    - potato3732842 2y ago
      Depends what you care about. Broadly speaking the entire developed world is further left than the US on workplace/business/union policy issues. The US left (federally, not talking Alabama dems here) is generally more left on immigration, abortion and LGBTQ+ and affirmative action type policies than Europe, broadly speaking. Drug policy is a wash IMO. There's a lot more variation in Europe because the EU doesn't arbitrate social issues the way the US federal government does.
      - selfmodruntime 2y ago
        > Broadly speaking the entire developed world is further left than the US on workplace/business/union policy issues This is what's crippling them. We initially built the social security net to counter this issue. Then we increased employee rights to maximum levels. I think one of either would be beneficial, but not both.
      - ilikecakeandpie 2y ago
        > not talking Alabama dems here As an Alabama Dem, this is something that is just so disappointing to see when we're assumed to be not "generally more left" There are so many here supporting and doing good, hard work with things like the Yellowhammer Fund, ¡HICA!, and Magic City Acceptance Center and Academy but we have to fight for any acknowledgement. We had more people vote for Kamala than several states but they amount to nothing in the public eye. It's so deflating and discouraging
        potato3732842 2y ago
        I think you have to acknowledge that the democratic politicians that rise to prominence in your state are not exactly the left of the left when it comes to policy in the same way that Christ Christie and Charlier Baker aren't hardline republicans. It's just a reflection of the electorate, not a personal slight.
- fastball 2y ago
  Maybe the problem is with all of you trying to reduce this to one dimension.
carom 2y ago
They are a corporate party, just like the democrats. Supporting secure borders is not far right. Republicans have support of every race, they are not racist despite the media repeating that they are. Trump is very hesitant about getting involved in wars. I see nothing far right about them, maybe they are somewhat nationalistic instead of globalist, but the US is a diverse nation. At the end of the day they are just another corporate party that appealed more to the American people.
YetAnotherNick 2y ago
Can you define far right?
- n4r9 2y ago
  According to Wikipedia, "Far-right politics ... are typically marked by radical conservatism, authoritarianism, ultra-nationalism, and nativism" Digging into the page for radical conservatism, "Elements of ultraconservatism typically rely on cultural crisis; they frequently support anti-globalism – adopting stances of anti-immigration, nationalism, and sovereignty – use populism and political polarization, with in-group and out-group practices.[3][4][5][6] The primary economic ideology for most ultraconservatives is neoliberalism.[6] The use of conspiracy theories is also common amongst ultraconservatives.". Trump is well-known for his populist, anti-globalist, anti-immigration, and pro-nationalist rhetoric. He has also promulgated conspiarcy theories such as the Obama birther conspiracy and claims of stolen elections. As for authoritarian, Trump forms a textbook example of a personality cult. He frequently attacks existing institutions and an independent media, undermining trust in a free democratic process. He frequently issues positive messages about authoritarian dictators in other countries such as Bolsonaro, Orban and Putin.
  - gadders 2y ago
    Ah, yes. That well know impartial source of political facts, wikipedia. >>Trump is well-known for his populist, anti-globalist, anti-immigration, and pro-nationalist rhetoric. He has also promulgated conspiarcy theories such as the Obama birther conspiracy and claims of stolen elections. You can be patriotic and anti-immigration without being far right. I think the claims of a stolen election are yet to be properly investigated. I'd welcome a truly impartial look into all the covid postal vote shenanigans last time. >>As for authoritarian, Trump forms a textbook example of a personality cult. He frequently attacks existing institutions and an independent media, undermining trust in a free democratic process. He frequently issues positive messages about authoritarian dictators in other countries such as Bolsonaro, Orban and Putin. You can criticise institutions now? And I'm sure he'd be in favour of an indepenndent media if America had one. Putin is a obviously a dictator. Bolsonaro and Orban not so much (especially Bolsonaro as he was, er, voted out which would seem to automatically disqualify him from being a dictator).
3np 2y ago
That is one of infinite potential framings. It should be obvious it has served its usefulness and is no longer helpful and constructive.
gadders 2y ago
[flagged]
jzackpete 2y ago
Can you name a policy of today's republican party that is further right than the republican party of 20 years ago? From my perspective they've ceded ground on many social issues. They had a porn star speak at the RNC convention this year. Dick Cheney, one of the people responsible for the "War on Terror", endorsed Kamala Harris. The idea that federal politics in the US has shifted right, not left, is baffling to me.
- shadowfacts 2y ago
  > Can you name a policy of today's republican party that is further right than the republican party of 20 years ago? Sure I can: "mass deportation now"
  - jzackpete 2y ago
    Nope. When I worked in a factory as a teenager, ICE came in and presumably deported all of the illegals, because they didn't show up the next day. A big reason Trump got elected is because they stopped doing that, and "mass deportation now" is effectively enforcement of the same policy as it was back then.
blindriver 2y ago
Democrats believe a man who thinks he is a woman is scientifically a woman. They believe in censorship. They believe in supporting and growing the military industrial complex. They believe in a discrimination campaign against whites and Asians, and meanwhile allowing unfettered illegal immigration with the intent of giving amnesty to the millions that entered through the forcibly unguarded border. They are not centrist by any stretch of the imagination.
- loup-vaillant 2y ago
  > Democrats believe a man who thinks he is a woman is scientifically a woman It's a bit more complicated than that. Gender is a social construct, mostly determined by genes & genitalia. It's not quite enough to believe you're a woman, other people have to believe it too. Another issue at play is that there are far more "intersex" people (who have some characteristics of the opposite sex, sometimes to the point doctors don't quite know whether to list them as male or female), and from what I've heard trans people often (possibly generally) are "intersex" in a way that wasn't visible at birth. The idea of a female's brain in a male's body isn't that far fetched. > They believe in censorship. I believe this one is more popular in the far right (when in power) than in the far left (when in power) > They believe in supporting and growing the military industrial complex. Militarism sounds like it's more popular on the right. Though it can be more complicated: military backed imperialism can indeed support stuff like welfare at home. --- Now the elephant in the room: last time I checked, democrats were firmly capitalists: they believe the means of production should be owned privately. Even if you exclude actual communism from acceptable discourse, they're fairly poor at public services and keeping inequality in check.
  - jimininy 2y ago
    > The idea of a female's brain in a male's body isn't that far fetched. How could it possibly be a female brain if it's part of a male body?
    - loup-vaillant 2y ago
      Oh come on, don't pretend you don't know what I mean.
vergessenmir 2y ago
To give you a bit of perspective,the democrats are right of the Conservatives in the UK. So they would kinda feel feel far-rightish to us only because the democrats are more conservative than ours
throw2343223434 2y ago
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by _s 2y ago

markus_zhang 2y ago

Non-American here too, but since your perspective is EU, what is Nazi party when the Republican party is far right? Like, far far far right?

wiggidy 2y ago
Depends on how you define 'right'. Were they conservative? No, they wanted to upend society and create one that is nothing like anything ever seen before. They were also anti-religion. In many ways, they were anti-tradition, and I wouldn't consider their obsession with bringing back dead traditions to be traditional. Were they hateful, racist, etc.? Yes, up to you if that's considered 'right'. Were they, like how American political parties are, friends of big business? Not really, they wanted to sponsor monopolies and whatnot but also wanted the businesses to have no influence over the state, rather the other way around, the state can force the big business to do what they want. As far as if it actually worked that way when they were in power, I'm not sure.

archagon 2y ago

They are absolutely far right, they just hate it when you call them that.

stogot 2y ago
Because it’s illogical. Far right implies there is an edge to a majority “right”. Calling the entire majority “far right” is just lazy adhominem attacks. Calling the entire the democrat party far left is equally stupid.
- dns_snek 2y ago
  Calling the democratic party "far left" is stupid for a different reason, viewed from a global perspective, they're probably best positioned as centre-right.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    Depends what you care about. Broadly speaking the entire developed world is further left than the US on workplace/business/union policy issues. The US left (federally, not talking Alabama dems here) is generally more left on immigration, abortion and LGBTQ+ and affirmative action type policies than Europe, broadly speaking. Drug policy is a wash IMO. There's a lot more variation in Europe because the EU doesn't arbitrate social issues the way the US federal government does.
    - selfmodruntime 2y ago
      > Broadly speaking the entire developed world is further left than the US on workplace/business/union policy issues This is what's crippling them. We initially built the social security net to counter this issue. Then we increased employee rights to maximum levels. I think one of either would be beneficial, but not both.
    - ilikecakeandpie 2y ago
      > not talking Alabama dems here As an Alabama Dem, this is something that is just so disappointing to see when we're assumed to be not "generally more left" There are so many here supporting and doing good, hard work with things like the Yellowhammer Fund, ¡HICA!, and Magic City Acceptance Center and Academy but we have to fight for any acknowledgement. We had more people vote for Kamala than several states but they amount to nothing in the public eye. It's so deflating and discouraging
      - potato3732842 2y ago
        I think you have to acknowledge that the democratic politicians that rise to prominence in your state are not exactly the left of the left when it comes to policy in the same way that Christ Christie and Charlier Baker aren't hardline republicans. It's just a reflection of the electorate, not a personal slight.
fastball 2y ago
Maybe the problem is with all of you trying to reduce this to one dimension.

carom 2y ago

They are a corporate party, just like the democrats. Supporting secure borders is not far right. Republicans have support of every race, they are not racist despite the media repeating that they are. Trump is very hesitant about getting involved in wars. I see nothing far right about them, maybe they are somewhat nationalistic instead of globalist, but the US is a diverse nation. At the end of the day they are just another corporate party that appealed more to the American people.

YetAnotherNick 2y ago

Can you define far right?

n4r9 2y ago
According to Wikipedia, "Far-right politics ... are typically marked by radical conservatism, authoritarianism, ultra-nationalism, and nativism" Digging into the page for radical conservatism, "Elements of ultraconservatism typically rely on cultural crisis; they frequently support anti-globalism – adopting stances of anti-immigration, nationalism, and sovereignty – use populism and political polarization, with in-group and out-group practices.[3][4][5][6] The primary economic ideology for most ultraconservatives is neoliberalism.[6] The use of conspiracy theories is also common amongst ultraconservatives.". Trump is well-known for his populist, anti-globalist, anti-immigration, and pro-nationalist rhetoric. He has also promulgated conspiarcy theories such as the Obama birther conspiracy and claims of stolen elections. As for authoritarian, Trump forms a textbook example of a personality cult. He frequently attacks existing institutions and an independent media, undermining trust in a free democratic process. He frequently issues positive messages about authoritarian dictators in other countries such as Bolsonaro, Orban and Putin.
- gadders 2y ago
  Ah, yes. That well know impartial source of political facts, wikipedia. >>Trump is well-known for his populist, anti-globalist, anti-immigration, and pro-nationalist rhetoric. He has also promulgated conspiarcy theories such as the Obama birther conspiracy and claims of stolen elections. You can be patriotic and anti-immigration without being far right. I think the claims of a stolen election are yet to be properly investigated. I'd welcome a truly impartial look into all the covid postal vote shenanigans last time. >>As for authoritarian, Trump forms a textbook example of a personality cult. He frequently attacks existing institutions and an independent media, undermining trust in a free democratic process. He frequently issues positive messages about authoritarian dictators in other countries such as Bolsonaro, Orban and Putin. You can criticise institutions now? And I'm sure he'd be in favour of an indepenndent media if America had one. Putin is a obviously a dictator. Bolsonaro and Orban not so much (especially Bolsonaro as he was, er, voted out which would seem to automatically disqualify him from being a dictator).

3np 2y ago

That is one of infinite potential framings. It should be obvious it has served its usefulness and is no longer helpful and constructive.

gadders 2y ago

[flagged]

jzackpete 2y ago

Can you name a policy of today's republican party that is further right than the republican party of 20 years ago? From my perspective they've ceded ground on many social issues. They had a porn star speak at the RNC convention this year. Dick Cheney, one of the people responsible for the "War on Terror", endorsed Kamala Harris. The idea that federal politics in the US has shifted right, not left, is baffling to me.

shadowfacts 2y ago
> Can you name a policy of today's republican party that is further right than the republican party of 20 years ago? Sure I can: "mass deportation now"
- jzackpete 2y ago
  Nope. When I worked in a factory as a teenager, ICE came in and presumably deported all of the illegals, because they didn't show up the next day. A big reason Trump got elected is because they stopped doing that, and "mass deportation now" is effectively enforcement of the same policy as it was back then.

blindriver 2y ago

Democrats believe a man who thinks he is a woman is scientifically a woman. They believe in censorship. They believe in supporting and growing the military industrial complex. They believe in a discrimination campaign against whites and Asians, and meanwhile allowing unfettered illegal immigration with the intent of giving amnesty to the millions that entered through the forcibly unguarded border. They are not centrist by any stretch of the imagination.

loup-vaillant 2y ago
> Democrats believe a man who thinks he is a woman is scientifically a woman It's a bit more complicated than that. Gender is a social construct, mostly determined by genes & genitalia. It's not quite enough to believe you're a woman, other people have to believe it too. Another issue at play is that there are far more "intersex" people (who have some characteristics of the opposite sex, sometimes to the point doctors don't quite know whether to list them as male or female), and from what I've heard trans people often (possibly generally) are "intersex" in a way that wasn't visible at birth. The idea of a female's brain in a male's body isn't that far fetched. > They believe in censorship. I believe this one is more popular in the far right (when in power) than in the far left (when in power) > They believe in supporting and growing the military industrial complex. Militarism sounds like it's more popular on the right. Though it can be more complicated: military backed imperialism can indeed support stuff like welfare at home. --- Now the elephant in the room: last time I checked, democrats were firmly capitalists: they believe the means of production should be owned privately. Even if you exclude actual communism from acceptable discourse, they're fairly poor at public services and keeping inequality in check.
- jimininy 2y ago
  > The idea of a female's brain in a male's body isn't that far fetched. How could it possibly be a female brain if it's part of a male body?
  - loup-vaillant 2y ago
    Oh come on, don't pretend you don't know what I mean.

vergessenmir 2y ago

To give you a bit of perspective,the democrats are right of the Conservatives in the UK. So they would kinda feel feel far-rightish to us only because the democrats are more conservative than ours

throw2343223434 2y ago

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