8 ms·

Sure 100 engineers would come up with the idea "slide to unlock". After you see and use something it's always easier to find this said solution. BUT before Appl

by oemera 14y ago

Sure 100 engineers would come up with the idea "slide to unlock". After you see and use something it's always easier to find this said solution. BUT before Apple it seems that none of the 100 engineers you mentioned came up with the idea and it was never build and that means it was never obvious before Apple created it. Saying things are obvious after someone already invented a dead simple and good solution for a problem we had for years is always easy. EDIT: Grammer.

TruthElixirX 14y ago
He just linked to a video of someone else doing it before Apple. Also physical world has had slide to lock/unlock for a really long time: http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en/n/11b/hardware-door-lock-barrel-bolt-latch-padlock-clasp-128647n.jpg http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en/n/11b/hardware-door-loc...
- denzil_correa 14y ago
  I receive a 403 Forbidden Error on this URL.
  - Intermernet 14y ago
    Locked out...
  - TruthElixirX 14y ago
    Sorry, it is a sliding lock. Just went with the first image I found on GIS.
CamperBob2 14y ago
The relevant question is, are the teachings of the patent likely to be necessary in order for a person of average skill in the art to implement the claimed technique(s)? If the answer is not only "No," but "Are you joking?", then the patent should never have been issued.
- taligent 14y ago
  That's a ridiculous metric for whether a patent should be issued or not. Many things are easy to implement but are difficult to conceptualize.
  - CamperBob2 14y ago
    Why, in your opinion, do we have patents? Patents are a bargain with society: I, the inventor, will publish the details of my invention, instead of keeping it locked away forever as a trade secret. In return, you, the government, will grant me a limited monopoly on the invention. But if the patent's teachings aren't even remotely necessary or helpful to those who implement my invention in the future, what exactly is society getting in exchange for the monopoly grant? IMO, patents shouldn't be granted on anything that wouldn't otherwise be a candidate for trade secret protection. "Slide to unlock" certainly would never meet that bar. There is a 0% chance that anyone who is infringing on this patent needed to read it first.
    - JackC 14y ago
      You're making sense in general, but the other justification for patents besides encouraging disclosure of details would be encouraging exploration of a wide range of options. For example: I, the inventor, will experiment with thousands of materials to find the one most suitable as a lightbulb filament. In return, you, the government, will grant me a limited monopoly on use of that material as a lightbulb filament. Once I release a lightbulb with a bamboo filament my invention is trivial to reimplement, but that doesn't mean the patent isn't contributing anything useful. Now in this case, the analogy would be I, Apple Computer, will experiment with thousands of touchscreen UIs to find the one most suitable for unlocking the device, and you, the government, will grant me a 20 year monopoly on whatever I come up with. I think the sane response is, "eh, no deal." We're just not getting enough out of the bargain. But "easy to reimplement once explained" isn't the problem there -- "easy to implement in the first place" or "no additional incentive required to encourage innovation" is.
      - 14y ago
reitzensteinm 14y ago
Come on, I clearly meant before Apple first used it. Today, 100 out of 100 engineers would consider it. You are right that obviousness changes over time, and it's important to consider it from the perspective of the time of the invention. But some things genuinely were obvious at the time of their 'invention'.
- Xuzz 14y ago
  I actually wish it was that obvious: I used Palm OS, RIM, and Windows Mobile devices before the iPhone and the unlock mechanisms (on the touchscreens!) ranged from "press the tiny * key, then the unlock soft button" (which was awful) to "press the center button once" (somewhat less awful). Slide to unlock was a huge deal for me: I no longer dreaded the crazy key commands needed to unlock a smartphone. Palm Treo: http://blog.treonauts.com/picKeyGuard01.jpg http://blog.treonauts.com/picKeyGuard01.jpg Palm Windows Mobile: http://www.hpc.ru/lib/arts/2364/palm-treo-750v-keylock.gif http://www.hpc.ru/lib/arts/2364/palm-treo-750v-keylock.gif Windows Mobile: http://cdn.pocketnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/DeviceLock.jpg http://cdn.pocketnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/DeviceLo...
- taligent 14y ago
  The obvious question is why didn't it appear on ANY of the major OEM's phones before the iPhone ?
  - codeka 14y ago
    But there are numerous examples of "swipe to unlock" right here in this thread. By qualifying that with "major OEMs", you're just moving the goal post.
    - taligent 14y ago
      I'm not trying to move any goal post. We are dealing with the major OEMs who are alleged to be infringing. And numerous examples of prior art where ? All I've seen in this thread is the Neonode. The video games and hardware locks are ridiculous because a patent is NOT a general idea it is a specific implementation of a concept.
beedogs 14y ago
"BUT before Apple it seems that none of the 100 engineers you mentioned came up with the idea" except for, you know, the numerous examples of prior art given throughout this thread.
jussij 14y ago
> BUT before Apple it seems that none of the 100 engineers you mentioned came up with the idea Except for those Neonode N1m engineers, as the video clearly shows that they did. But I guess they though the idea was so obvious they didn't apply for a patent.
- infinitex 14y ago
  Yes, they do have a patent. U.S. Patent No. 8,095,879: Unlocking a device by performing gestures on an unlock image http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=8,095,879&OS=8,095,879&RS=8,095,879 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sec...
- infinitex 14y ago
  Neonodes Patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=4vwAAgAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=8095879&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YHdCT56bFerE2wXU8qiVCA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA http://www.google.com/patents?id=4vwAAgAAEBAJ&printsec=f... http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24046 http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24046

by oemera 14y ago

TruthElixirX 14y ago

He just linked to a video of someone else doing it before Apple. Also physical world has had slide to lock/unlock for a really long time: http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en/n/11b/hardware-door-lock-barrel-bolt-latch-padlock-clasp-128647n.jpg http://m2.sourcingmap.com/smapimg/en/n/11b/hardware-door-loc...

denzil_correa 14y ago
I receive a 403 Forbidden Error on this URL.
- Intermernet 14y ago
  Locked out...
- TruthElixirX 14y ago
  Sorry, it is a sliding lock. Just went with the first image I found on GIS.

CamperBob2 14y ago

The relevant question is, are the teachings of the patent likely to be necessary in order for a person of average skill in the art to implement the claimed technique(s)? If the answer is not only "No," but "Are you joking?", then the patent should never have been issued.

taligent 14y ago
That's a ridiculous metric for whether a patent should be issued or not. Many things are easy to implement but are difficult to conceptualize.
- CamperBob2 14y ago
  Why, in your opinion, do we have patents? Patents are a bargain with society: I, the inventor, will publish the details of my invention, instead of keeping it locked away forever as a trade secret. In return, you, the government, will grant me a limited monopoly on the invention. But if the patent's teachings aren't even remotely necessary or helpful to those who implement my invention in the future, what exactly is society getting in exchange for the monopoly grant? IMO, patents shouldn't be granted on anything that wouldn't otherwise be a candidate for trade secret protection. "Slide to unlock" certainly would never meet that bar. There is a 0% chance that anyone who is infringing on this patent needed to read it first.
  - JackC 14y ago
    You're making sense in general, but the other justification for patents besides encouraging disclosure of details would be encouraging exploration of a wide range of options. For example: I, the inventor, will experiment with thousands of materials to find the one most suitable as a lightbulb filament. In return, you, the government, will grant me a limited monopoly on use of that material as a lightbulb filament. Once I release a lightbulb with a bamboo filament my invention is trivial to reimplement, but that doesn't mean the patent isn't contributing anything useful. Now in this case, the analogy would be I, Apple Computer, will experiment with thousands of touchscreen UIs to find the one most suitable for unlocking the device, and you, the government, will grant me a 20 year monopoly on whatever I come up with. I think the sane response is, "eh, no deal." We're just not getting enough out of the bargain. But "easy to reimplement once explained" isn't the problem there -- "easy to implement in the first place" or "no additional incentive required to encourage innovation" is.
    - 14y ago

reitzensteinm 14y ago

Come on, I clearly meant before Apple first used it. Today, 100 out of 100 engineers would consider it. You are right that obviousness changes over time, and it's important to consider it from the perspective of the time of the invention. But some things genuinely were obvious at the time of their 'invention'.

Xuzz 14y ago
I actually wish it was that obvious: I used Palm OS, RIM, and Windows Mobile devices before the iPhone and the unlock mechanisms (on the touchscreens!) ranged from "press the tiny * key, then the unlock soft button" (which was awful) to "press the center button once" (somewhat less awful). Slide to unlock was a huge deal for me: I no longer dreaded the crazy key commands needed to unlock a smartphone. Palm Treo: http://blog.treonauts.com/picKeyGuard01.jpg http://blog.treonauts.com/picKeyGuard01.jpg Palm Windows Mobile: http://www.hpc.ru/lib/arts/2364/palm-treo-750v-keylock.gif http://www.hpc.ru/lib/arts/2364/palm-treo-750v-keylock.gif Windows Mobile: http://cdn.pocketnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/DeviceLock.jpg http://cdn.pocketnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/DeviceLo...
taligent 14y ago
The obvious question is why didn't it appear on ANY of the major OEM's phones before the iPhone ?
- codeka 14y ago
  But there are numerous examples of "swipe to unlock" right here in this thread. By qualifying that with "major OEMs", you're just moving the goal post.
  - taligent 14y ago
    I'm not trying to move any goal post. We are dealing with the major OEMs who are alleged to be infringing. And numerous examples of prior art where ? All I've seen in this thread is the Neonode. The video games and hardware locks are ridiculous because a patent is NOT a general idea it is a specific implementation of a concept.

beedogs 14y ago

"BUT before Apple it seems that none of the 100 engineers you mentioned came up with the idea" except for, you know, the numerous examples of prior art given throughout this thread.

jussij 14y ago

> BUT before Apple it seems that none of the 100 engineers you mentioned came up with the idea Except for those Neonode N1m engineers, as the video clearly shows that they did. But I guess they though the idea was so obvious they didn't apply for a patent.

infinitex 14y ago
Yes, they do have a patent. U.S. Patent No. 8,095,879: Unlocking a device by performing gestures on an unlock image http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=8,095,879&OS=8,095,879&RS=8,095,879 http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sec...
infinitex 14y ago
Neonodes Patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=4vwAAgAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=8095879&hl=en&sa=X&ei=YHdCT56bFerE2wXU8qiVCA&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA http://www.google.com/patents?id=4vwAAgAAEBAJ&printsec=f... http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24046 http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24046