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The only way to get an honest electronic vote is by giving realtime visibility on who voted what and where publicly. Everything else is a scam. It would mean

The only way to get an honest electronic vote is by giving realtime visibility on who voted what and where publicly. Everything else is a scam. It would mean no secrecy of vote, but I think that secrecy of vote is for places that are new to democracy. It could be anonymised to a point a clever system of personal certificats, but the idea is that in a 100 people district, the citizens should be able to count themselves and check if their real votes are correctly registred. If the list is public, everyone got a proof of vote and can confirm that the global list is correct localy, then there is no way to hide cheating.

myth2018 2y ago
> The only way to get an honest electronic vote is by giving realtime visibility on who voted what and where publicly. The secrecy on individual votes has a good reason to exist. Votes are already bought based on per-section public results, imagine what would happen if individual votes were public. Moreover, people under any sort of threat (communities dominated by drug dealers, employees of a dishonest, politically engaged business owner) would be in big trouble.
saturn8601 2y ago
>The only way to get an honest electronic vote is by giving realtime visibility on who voted what and where publicly. How about having the voter verify a printed copy of their electronic vote before the machine casts the ballot and then counting the paper ballots afterwards to verify the tally with the machine. Two way verification. Problem solved. Since 2016, with the help of activists over the country, NJ and many otther states switched to electronic machines with paper records validated by the voter. Unfortunately the part about counting the paper ballots afterwards varies between states.
- ytpete 2y ago
  I believe since 2002 all electronic voting machines must produce a paper receipt like that, due to the Help America Vote Act. I don't think most states hand-check every single ballot, but I'd be shocked if there are any that don't perform random audits where some sampling of the receipt are hand-checked.
  - saturn8601 2y ago
    As of 2024 there are still many states that are still using DRE: Direct Record Electronic: a voter records the vote digitally and any paper record, if available is printed after the fact. [1]:https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_state https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_stat... I am not a fan of Optical scan either. In NY back in 2019 I was a volunteer for a local election that was super close and we discovered that the machines rejected a bunch of votes. We then had to challenge the election and do a manual hand count. For the votes rejected by the machine that were not fully legible we had to find the voter who cast the ballot. I recall some ballot were rejected for stupid reason like there was a mustard stain on the ballot(this is in NYC ha ha). In the end I think we lost by 60 votes or so. A good system in my mind is what NJ has moved to (although it seems like they have not moved to this system statewide which is a shame): DRE with paper trail. Essentially, the voter votes, the machine prints a paper record and shows it to the voter so they can verify. Once they verify, the vote is cast and the paper is deposited into a sealed box. Unfortunately they only go back and count the paper for close races but they should really do it for all races.
EasyMark 2y ago
The value of secrecy is for protecting wives, mothers, etc from violence and punishment. the same is also true in local elections in particular. You could be ostracized from public services in a heart beat if they knew your vote. I can think of a hundred other reasons why a secret ballot is better than a public ballot. A secret ballot is necessary for safety, courtesy, and well being of a society.
- arp242 2y ago
  Also see: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/01/women-canceling-out-men-votes-trump-harris https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/01/women-cancel...
ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 2y ago
> Everything else is a scam. There is no evidence of voting systems in the US being "scams". This monster under the bed mentality is getting tiresome.
- hackable_sand 2y ago
  Yes. These are all social problems.
stuaxo 2y ago
There are ways of doing this using encryption so that the person will know what their own vote is in a way that others don't.
- tupolef 2y ago
  But, there is still someone somewhere that distribute the certificats and can link you to your vote so why try to hide something that can leak. It will leak.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    We have a major party candidate right now saying his political opponents should face a firing squad and you’re asking “why try to hide something that can leak?” https://x.com/atrupar/status/1852209432878342308 https://x.com/atrupar/status/1852209432878342308
    - willy_k 2y ago
      It’s pretty clear that he is saying that Liz Cheney is a war hawk but might change that stance if she found herself on the other side of said hawking. Your statement is technically correct but like many other interpretations of his statements, forgoes context and intent to make an easy point.
      - llamaimperative 2y ago
        The context is that he has been publicly calling for a televised military tribunal for Cheney (who is not in the military) for quite a while now, but since he’s a senile old man who “weaved” this into an argument against hawkishness, the right wing can play dumb.
    - rightbyte 2y ago
      A firing squad implies execution. It is quite disingenuous to pretend the quote is about that. The quote is about her in a war setting with a rifle of her own. Maybe 'Battle Royale' or 'Hunger Games' as an execution but that is kinda far fetched.

myth2018 2y ago

> The only way to get an honest electronic vote is by giving realtime visibility on who voted what and where publicly. The secrecy on individual votes has a good reason to exist. Votes are already bought based on per-section public results, imagine what would happen if individual votes were public. Moreover, people under any sort of threat (communities dominated by drug dealers, employees of a dishonest, politically engaged business owner) would be in big trouble.

saturn8601 2y ago

>The only way to get an honest electronic vote is by giving realtime visibility on who voted what and where publicly. How about having the voter verify a printed copy of their electronic vote before the machine casts the ballot and then counting the paper ballots afterwards to verify the tally with the machine. Two way verification. Problem solved. Since 2016, with the help of activists over the country, NJ and many otther states switched to electronic machines with paper records validated by the voter. Unfortunately the part about counting the paper ballots afterwards varies between states.

ytpete 2y ago
I believe since 2002 all electronic voting machines must produce a paper receipt like that, due to the Help America Vote Act. I don't think most states hand-check every single ballot, but I'd be shocked if there are any that don't perform random audits where some sampling of the receipt are hand-checked.
- saturn8601 2y ago
  As of 2024 there are still many states that are still using DRE: Direct Record Electronic: a voter records the vote digitally and any paper record, if available is printed after the fact. [1]:https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_state https://ballotpedia.org/Voting_methods_and_equipment_by_stat... I am not a fan of Optical scan either. In NY back in 2019 I was a volunteer for a local election that was super close and we discovered that the machines rejected a bunch of votes. We then had to challenge the election and do a manual hand count. For the votes rejected by the machine that were not fully legible we had to find the voter who cast the ballot. I recall some ballot were rejected for stupid reason like there was a mustard stain on the ballot(this is in NYC ha ha). In the end I think we lost by 60 votes or so. A good system in my mind is what NJ has moved to (although it seems like they have not moved to this system statewide which is a shame): DRE with paper trail. Essentially, the voter votes, the machine prints a paper record and shows it to the voter so they can verify. Once they verify, the vote is cast and the paper is deposited into a sealed box. Unfortunately they only go back and count the paper for close races but they should really do it for all races.

EasyMark 2y ago

The value of secrecy is for protecting wives, mothers, etc from violence and punishment. the same is also true in local elections in particular. You could be ostracized from public services in a heart beat if they knew your vote. I can think of a hundred other reasons why a secret ballot is better than a public ballot. A secret ballot is necessary for safety, courtesy, and well being of a society.

arp242 2y ago
Also see: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/01/women-canceling-out-men-votes-trump-harris https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/01/women-cancel...

ZYbCRq22HbJ2y7 2y ago

> Everything else is a scam. There is no evidence of voting systems in the US being "scams". This monster under the bed mentality is getting tiresome.

hackable_sand 2y ago
Yes. These are all social problems.

stuaxo 2y ago

There are ways of doing this using encryption so that the person will know what their own vote is in a way that others don't.

tupolef 2y ago
But, there is still someone somewhere that distribute the certificats and can link you to your vote so why try to hide something that can leak. It will leak.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  We have a major party candidate right now saying his political opponents should face a firing squad and you’re asking “why try to hide something that can leak?” https://x.com/atrupar/status/1852209432878342308 https://x.com/atrupar/status/1852209432878342308
  - willy_k 2y ago
    It’s pretty clear that he is saying that Liz Cheney is a war hawk but might change that stance if she found herself on the other side of said hawking. Your statement is technically correct but like many other interpretations of his statements, forgoes context and intent to make an easy point.
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      The context is that he has been publicly calling for a televised military tribunal for Cheney (who is not in the military) for quite a while now, but since he’s a senile old man who “weaved” this into an argument against hawkishness, the right wing can play dumb.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    A firing squad implies execution. It is quite disingenuous to pretend the quote is about that. The quote is about her in a war setting with a rifle of her own. Maybe 'Battle Royale' or 'Hunger Games' as an execution but that is kinda far fetched.