7 ms·

Democratising publishing

174 points by mxstbr 2y ago

breck 2y ago
[flagged]
- luqtas 2y ago
  > ... to make the leap to an intellectually free world how do you interpret the MIT license?
  - breck 2y ago
    [flagged]
- johnonolan 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - breck 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - samatman 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - breck 2y ago
        [flagged]
- dang 2y ago
  You broke the site guidelines today in so many places, and so many ways, that I think we have to finally call enough enough and ban this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
apitman 2y ago
What strikes me about Ghost's story is that if they hadn't failed to get in to YC[0], they probably would have failed for real, because eventually the VCs would have come calling and they're obviously not a unicorn. Instead, they have a successful organization providing a livelihood for almost 50 people, and real value to countless more. [0]: https://john.onolan.org/a-decade-after-being-rejected-by-yc/ https://john.onolan.org/a-decade-after-being-rejected-by-yc/
- senko 2y ago
  There are so many solid business ideas that take VC money, turn out not to be unicorn potential, and crash and burn, where a slower, sustainable growth might work just fine. Gumroad is a famous example.
nightpool 2y ago
I can't really comment too much on historical Wordpress politics—given Matt's recent public meltdown I'm completely willing to believe that he's continued to shoot Wordpress in the foot in more obscure ways in the past—but the posturing here vs. Wordpress really strikes me as someone who has gotten lucky and has attributed that luck to skill instead. What happens when Ghost gets popular enough to get their own "G Engine" competing with with Ghost (Pro)? As Wordpress.com shows, there's no serious moat for open source hosting. Either Ghost devotes resources away from their open core and towards their hosting platform, or they lose the competition for marketshare to a company that does devote those resources and then they have no funding stream, aside from what G Engine deigns to give them out of the grace of their own heart. And all of the platitudes about voting or board seats and everything else don't really make one lick of difference if you don't have any funding to make that happen, and you have to rely on pay-to-play funding from the people who are actually making money in the space, and let them set your agenda. So, Matt's behavior aside, I do think these issues are pretty endemic to the idea of "open core" funding as a company (or market) grows beyond a certain size. Unified non-profit or dual-corporation structure (Mozilla Corporation vs Mozilla Foundation) doesn't change the fundamental logic of "where does the money come from?". I don't think Ghost is providing any new solutions here—they've just gotten lucky / been small enough to not be out-competed in their hosting niche yet.
- troymc 2y ago
  1) Many people or orgs who are aligned with Ghost and want it to succeed long-term will be okay with paying a bit more for hosting on Ghost(Pro); they might see the extra cost as paying for the continued existence and development of their publishing software. 2) Not all foundations-behind-open-source-projects use revenues from hosting as their sole source of funding. Notable examples include the Blender Foundation and the Linux Foundation.
  - nightpool 2y ago
    Sure, I don't see where in my comment I imply this is a problem for all open source communities, just that it's a problem for the type of open source community John seems to want Ghost to be (no intellectual property, making revenue via providing services). For #1, that is the kind of logic that works fine for the early adopters, but frustrates and turns away the people who just want e.g. a Substack that won't squeeze them for login walls or a Wordpress that is easier to use. I've seen a lot of non-technical people in that bucket turned away recently by Ghost (Pro)'s opaque and confusing member-based hosting costs. It makes it completely impractical to run a free email newsletter, and plenty of other Ghost providers seem to have this worked out. So all it takes is one of those competitors breaking through to achieve name recognition and get a lucky roll of the marketing dice to overtake Ghost in revenue. And then they can fund their own fork and the Ghost community is forced to agree to their development wishes or become outpaced by their proprietary features. It's a pretty bad place to be in.
saaaaaam 2y ago
I shifted a large 20+ year news publication from Wordpress to ghost about 18 months ago - and opted to use Ghost(Pro) It’s been a dream. The core product for that site is a daily newsletter. On ghost it gets higher opens rates and more engagement than via the previous email backend. Build is far simpler too. The clincher for me for Ghost(Pro) is that if you use your own hosted version of Ghost you need to plug into something else for sending email newsletters - which for the number of subscribers in this instance for a daily newsletter plus weekly wrap-up would cost a fortune. With Ghost(Pro) it’s all wrapped in. And their support is superb.
- sieabahlpark 2y ago
  [dead]
- 0xEF 2y ago
  On the off chance that someone here has recommendations, I'll reply and say my experience with Ghost Pro was different. I am trying to start a small blog that will have a handful of writers, so the idea of using some kind of lightweight CMS with edit/post capability is appealing, but we don't like the clunky feeling of beefy CMSs, especially when it seems to be built entirely around the analytics, which we do not care all that much about (the blog is intended to be small and hobbiest, we are not interested in making money from it). I found Ghost to be too "on rails" and much more robust than what we need, so it felt like paying for software that sat mostly unused. In my admittedly unskilled experience (I am learning webdev, but not anywhere close to a pro, yet) it felt like I was using WordPress with a different name, which was a turn off. I have Drupal 11 spun up on VPS but I have not had a moment to sit down and start really digging into it, yet. If anyone has some smaller CMS to recommend (even paid is fine, if the prices is reasonable) that allows for a nice WYSIWYG editor, user accounts and roles, code editor when needed, I'd love to try it.
  - Kye 2y ago
    Comrade Ernie Smith wrote a thing on this: https://tedium.co/2024/10/20/wordpress-cms-alternatives-content-strategy-advice/ https://tedium.co/2024/10/20/wordpress-cms-alternatives-cont...
djoldman 2y ago
For the tax or corp. lawyers: Is it possible for some clever business person to start a non-profit, amass a bundle of money, convert to for-profit, and then own the bundle of money to do with as they see fit? If yes, I'd assume there would be tax implications in that the bundle of money would be some ~70% after paying the gov.
- haccount 2y ago
  If your name is Scam Altman then it's a breeze to do so
  - mandmandam 2y ago
    Not quite a breeze, to be fair. You gotta manufacture a bit of drama, install bad actors in key positions, pull media strings, etc. But yeah it can be done.
- ValentineC 2y ago
  > Is it possible for some clever business person to start a non-profit, amass a bundle of money, convert to for-profit, and then own the bundle of money to do with as they see fit? Not a lawyer, but as the Ghost Foundation is not a charity, the trustees can currently do whatever they want with the money.
  - adolph 2y ago
    Their about page claims non profit, Wikipedia and others say registered in Singapore but I don’t see anything under “ghost” as a society [0] or as a charity [1]. For something that has “believe in being transparent” in the about page, the lack of any registration number or a link to the touted constitution is odd. DNS registrant is from West Yorkshire, GB [2]. 0. https://eservices2.mha.gov.sg/ros/search-society https://eservices2.mha.gov.sg/ros/search-society 1. https://authoring.charities.gov.sg/ https://authoring.charities.gov.sg/ 2. https://www.whois.com/whois/ghost.org https://www.whois.com/whois/ghost.org
    - 2y ago
bastloing 2y ago
I just post on X. Get paid for it too!
- echoangle 2y ago
  How much do you get out per month?
  - joshmanders 2y ago
    Depends on how much energy you put into it... But for my own experience of someone who isn't trying to be a content creator, I just have monetization turned on because I may as well get paid for the time I'm gonna be on there, which I would do regardless... I'm taking home about $50/mo for my $8/mo investment. If i have anything that goes off, obviously more. I got approved for monetization in March of this year, and so far with a few viral posts and regular usage, I've made about $1200 this year on the platform.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
This is the model that most tech companies who say they are founded on the basis of "helping the world to do X" should adopt. Major Kudos to the Ghost founders for actually following through on their ideals rather than playing lip service to them until the big money flows in, like so many others. And you know, this model is not for everyone and that's fine, but if you're not planning on following through then drop the bullshit idealism from the start and just plainly come out with "we're here to make as much money as possible". (Looking at you, Altman, and many others.)

174 points by mxstbr 2y ago

breck 2y ago

[flagged]

luqtas 2y ago
> ... to make the leap to an intellectually free world how do you interpret the MIT license?
- breck 2y ago
  [flagged]
johnonolan 2y ago
[flagged]
- breck 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - samatman 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - breck 2y ago
      [flagged]
dang 2y ago
You broke the site guidelines today in so many places, and so many ways, that I think we have to finally call enough enough and ban this account. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

apitman 2y ago

What strikes me about Ghost's story is that if they hadn't failed to get in to YC[0], they probably would have failed for real, because eventually the VCs would have come calling and they're obviously not a unicorn. Instead, they have a successful organization providing a livelihood for almost 50 people, and real value to countless more. [0]: https://john.onolan.org/a-decade-after-being-rejected-by-yc/ https://john.onolan.org/a-decade-after-being-rejected-by-yc/

senko 2y ago
There are so many solid business ideas that take VC money, turn out not to be unicorn potential, and crash and burn, where a slower, sustainable growth might work just fine. Gumroad is a famous example.

nightpool 2y ago

I can't really comment too much on historical Wordpress politics—given Matt's recent public meltdown I'm completely willing to believe that he's continued to shoot Wordpress in the foot in more obscure ways in the past—but the posturing here vs. Wordpress really strikes me as someone who has gotten lucky and has attributed that luck to skill instead. What happens when Ghost gets popular enough to get their own "G Engine" competing with with Ghost (Pro)? As Wordpress.com shows, there's no serious moat for open source hosting. Either Ghost devotes resources away from their open core and towards their hosting platform, or they lose the competition for marketshare to a company that does devote those resources and then they have no funding stream, aside from what G Engine deigns to give them out of the grace of their own heart. And all of the platitudes about voting or board seats and everything else don't really make one lick of difference if you don't have any funding to make that happen, and you have to rely on pay-to-play funding from the people who are actually making money in the space, and let them set your agenda. So, Matt's behavior aside, I do think these issues are pretty endemic to the idea of "open core" funding as a company (or market) grows beyond a certain size. Unified non-profit or dual-corporation structure (Mozilla Corporation vs Mozilla Foundation) doesn't change the fundamental logic of "where does the money come from?". I don't think Ghost is providing any new solutions here—they've just gotten lucky / been small enough to not be out-competed in their hosting niche yet.

troymc 2y ago
1) Many people or orgs who are aligned with Ghost and want it to succeed long-term will be okay with paying a bit more for hosting on Ghost(Pro); they might see the extra cost as paying for the continued existence and development of their publishing software. 2) Not all foundations-behind-open-source-projects use revenues from hosting as their sole source of funding. Notable examples include the Blender Foundation and the Linux Foundation.
- nightpool 2y ago
  Sure, I don't see where in my comment I imply this is a problem for all open source communities, just that it's a problem for the type of open source community John seems to want Ghost to be (no intellectual property, making revenue via providing services). For #1, that is the kind of logic that works fine for the early adopters, but frustrates and turns away the people who just want e.g. a Substack that won't squeeze them for login walls or a Wordpress that is easier to use. I've seen a lot of non-technical people in that bucket turned away recently by Ghost (Pro)'s opaque and confusing member-based hosting costs. It makes it completely impractical to run a free email newsletter, and plenty of other Ghost providers seem to have this worked out. So all it takes is one of those competitors breaking through to achieve name recognition and get a lucky roll of the marketing dice to overtake Ghost in revenue. And then they can fund their own fork and the Ghost community is forced to agree to their development wishes or become outpaced by their proprietary features. It's a pretty bad place to be in.

saaaaaam 2y ago

I shifted a large 20+ year news publication from Wordpress to ghost about 18 months ago - and opted to use Ghost(Pro) It’s been a dream. The core product for that site is a daily newsletter. On ghost it gets higher opens rates and more engagement than via the previous email backend. Build is far simpler too. The clincher for me for Ghost(Pro) is that if you use your own hosted version of Ghost you need to plug into something else for sending email newsletters - which for the number of subscribers in this instance for a daily newsletter plus weekly wrap-up would cost a fortune. With Ghost(Pro) it’s all wrapped in. And their support is superb.

sieabahlpark 2y ago
[dead]
0xEF 2y ago
On the off chance that someone here has recommendations, I'll reply and say my experience with Ghost Pro was different. I am trying to start a small blog that will have a handful of writers, so the idea of using some kind of lightweight CMS with edit/post capability is appealing, but we don't like the clunky feeling of beefy CMSs, especially when it seems to be built entirely around the analytics, which we do not care all that much about (the blog is intended to be small and hobbiest, we are not interested in making money from it). I found Ghost to be too "on rails" and much more robust than what we need, so it felt like paying for software that sat mostly unused. In my admittedly unskilled experience (I am learning webdev, but not anywhere close to a pro, yet) it felt like I was using WordPress with a different name, which was a turn off. I have Drupal 11 spun up on VPS but I have not had a moment to sit down and start really digging into it, yet. If anyone has some smaller CMS to recommend (even paid is fine, if the prices is reasonable) that allows for a nice WYSIWYG editor, user accounts and roles, code editor when needed, I'd love to try it.
- Kye 2y ago
  Comrade Ernie Smith wrote a thing on this: https://tedium.co/2024/10/20/wordpress-cms-alternatives-content-strategy-advice/ https://tedium.co/2024/10/20/wordpress-cms-alternatives-cont...

djoldman 2y ago

For the tax or corp. lawyers: Is it possible for some clever business person to start a non-profit, amass a bundle of money, convert to for-profit, and then own the bundle of money to do with as they see fit? If yes, I'd assume there would be tax implications in that the bundle of money would be some ~70% after paying the gov.

haccount 2y ago
If your name is Scam Altman then it's a breeze to do so
- mandmandam 2y ago
  Not quite a breeze, to be fair. You gotta manufacture a bit of drama, install bad actors in key positions, pull media strings, etc. But yeah it can be done.
ValentineC 2y ago
> Is it possible for some clever business person to start a non-profit, amass a bundle of money, convert to for-profit, and then own the bundle of money to do with as they see fit? Not a lawyer, but as the Ghost Foundation is not a charity, the trustees can currently do whatever they want with the money.
- adolph 2y ago
  Their about page claims non profit, Wikipedia and others say registered in Singapore but I don’t see anything under “ghost” as a society [0] or as a charity [1]. For something that has “believe in being transparent” in the about page, the lack of any registration number or a link to the touted constitution is odd. DNS registrant is from West Yorkshire, GB [2]. 0. https://eservices2.mha.gov.sg/ros/search-society https://eservices2.mha.gov.sg/ros/search-society 1. https://authoring.charities.gov.sg/ https://authoring.charities.gov.sg/ 2. https://www.whois.com/whois/ghost.org https://www.whois.com/whois/ghost.org
  - 2y ago

bastloing 2y ago

I just post on X. Get paid for it too!

echoangle 2y ago
How much do you get out per month?
- joshmanders 2y ago
  Depends on how much energy you put into it... But for my own experience of someone who isn't trying to be a content creator, I just have monetization turned on because I may as well get paid for the time I'm gonna be on there, which I would do regardless... I'm taking home about $50/mo for my $8/mo investment. If i have anything that goes off, obviously more. I got approved for monetization in March of this year, and so far with a few viral posts and regular usage, I've made about $1200 this year on the platform.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

This is the model that most tech companies who say they are founded on the basis of "helping the world to do X" should adopt. Major Kudos to the Ghost founders for actually following through on their ideals rather than playing lip service to them until the big money flows in, like so many others. And you know, this model is not for everyone and that's fine, but if you're not planning on following through then drop the bullshit idealism from the start and just plainly come out with "we're here to make as much money as possible". (Looking at you, Altman, and many others.)