6 ms·

Ratio of PC to Mac Sales Narrowing to Lowest Level in Over a Decade

13 points by vmyy99 14y ago

vtry 14y ago
I love this comment: "The working class folks who buy PC's are getting whacked financally, while rich people who buy Macs are making off like bandits."
- mkaltenecker 14y ago
  It’s kind of astonishing that people still have such weird believes about Macs. You can’t be successful to the level Apple is by only selling to rich people. Macs are successful as a mass market product.
  - grecy 14y ago
    > You can’t be successful to the level Apple is by only selling to rich people Porsche and Ferrari come to mind...
    - Kynlyn 14y ago
      Porsche and Ferrari combined don't have the market share for vehicles that Apple has on computers, so the comment is valid. Apple's market share is too large to just be for "rich people."
    - mkaltenecker 14y ago
      That’s kind of the point. You can be successful with the rich as a target group – but you can’t be successful the way Apple is.
    - pooriaazimi 14y ago
      I'd guess both of them combined generate less revenue (or profit, for that matter) than just then 11-inch MacBook Air :D
taligent 14y ago
Would love to see that graph against the trend from desktops to laptops. It definitely seems like people when buying their first Mac are doing so in a laptop form factor usually the Air.
jsz0 14y ago
Easy to understand why this is happening. When Vista launched you could walk into a store and buy it on a PC that could barely run it. Mostly due to lack of RAM and bloat ware. Sure it was cheap but not a good value. A $350 borderline unusable computer is no bargain. I think people are starting I catch onto this. Things are better now in the PC market bur if you got burnt in the last few years the take away lesson is cheap isn't always better. If you only plan to replace your computer every 3-4 years $1000-$1500 isn't a huge investment to make.
- grecy 14y ago
  > A $350 borderline unusable computer is no bargain. I think people are starting I catch onto this. I agree 100%. Many friends and family have cheap and crap laptops that continually crash, and last only a year or two before being replaced (for another cheap, crap laptop) As time has gone on, you can see they are slowly realizing this is no bargain, and are starting to look at the expensive end, and towards Apple.
  - freehunter 14y ago
    The problem is people buy cheap, crap laptops, notice they are cheap and crap, and hear that the Macs are not cheap but also not crap. They then run out and buy a quality Macbook for $2300, completely ignoring the fact that it's not that Apple makes a better product, it's that Apple makes a product that exists in a market these people have never even considered. Quality Windows laptops exist. I sold my HP Envy for almost as much as I bought it for after a year of solid use. It cost me $1000 brand new, and there was almost nothing the Macbook could offer besides OSX that could do anything but match it. Yes, Macbooks are better than $300 laptops. But you know what is also better than a $300 laptop? A $1000 laptop, and the extra $1300 in your pocket. Your Dodge Neon is a piece of junk, true, but before you shell out cash for BMW 5-series, why not take a look at the Ford Fusion?
    - grecy 14y ago
      > Your Dodge Neon is a piece of junk, true, but before you shell out cash for BMW 5-series, why not take a look at the Ford Fusion? Excellent point. I'm not saying people that are sick of cheap/crap laptops need or must go and buy an Apple product. I'm saying they start to realize buying something more expensive works out better in the long run. When looking at something more expensive, Apple's products come into the picture (but are not the whole picture, obviously) While we're here, lets not exaggerate too much. Apple makes exactly one laptop for $2300, and it's probably the fastest/most feature packed laptop ever made, without a competitor right now. Lots of their laptops are $1200 - $1700, which certainly is more expensive than the competition, but again, we've already decided we're willing to spend a little more for higher quality at this point.
olalonde 14y ago
It's kind of sad that Apple has virtually no competition for its MacBook Pro and MacBook Air in terms of build quality (last time I checked, I'd be happy to be proved wrong). Nowadays, I barely care about "hard" specs (CPU, memory, etc.) when shopping for a laptop, what I really care about is: low heating, low weight, thinness, long battery life and strong build quality. Although I'd rather use Linux than OS X, it's hard to find a laptop of comparable quality to the MacBooks for the requirements I mentioned (of course, it isn't to hard to find if what you are interested in is raw speed and performance).
- _mayo 14y ago
  Vizios new laptop and ultrabook look like they may be competitors. They've designed them from the ground up and ship without bloatware if you choose to run Windows. http://www.vizio.com/computing/ http://www.vizio.com/computing/
  - cmelbye 14y ago
    That picture is hilarious, it's literally a clone of Apple's Mac line-up, right down to the wireless keyboard and Magic Trackpad.
    - DigitalJack 14y ago
      When minimalism is a desired trait, it isn't far fetched to see competing firms to come up with similar designs.
      - cmelbye 14y ago
        I don't understand the belief that minimalist design is obvious and that everyone else totally would've designed it the same way. It's almost like when someone walks up to a work of art and remarks that they easily could've done it themselves. Yeah, but you didn't. Minimalist design is hard, and you're kidding yourself if you honestly think that Vizio's line of computers would've looked the same had Apple never existed.
kbob 14y ago
Could that graph possibly be more misleading? Plotting the ratio of a number to one much smaller exaggerates small changes so you miss the big picture: PC sales dwarf Mac sales. A better graph: two lines, one showing PC sales each year and the other showing Mac sales. It would show that Mac sales are less, and it would also show how much the market has grown since 1984. Even better: the number of machines of each type currently in use.
- pohl 14y ago
  It depends on what you want to visualize. This graph is great for visualizing the effect of Mac sales outgrowing the pc market for 24 consecutive quarters.
  - calciphus 14y ago
    This graph could just as easily be explained as people with high incomes (Mac users generally do) are more insulated from economic downturn than the people buying $300 laptops. Reading it how you want doesn't make it true. Even according to the graph, 15x means that one in 16 machines sold is a Mac. Math tells us that's 6.25% market share. That number hasn't appreciably changed in real terms in the last decade. Yes, moving from 4% to 6% is a 50% "growth", if you want to define growth that way. Normally, that's 2% growth. However, the inability of Mac to grab any significant market share from the overall PC market should be a concern, considering the relative popularity of their other devices.
    - pohl 14y ago
      This graph could just as easily be explained as people with high incomes (Mac users generally do) are more insulated from economic downturn than the people buying $300 laptops. Not if you look at the labels on the horizontal axis and you know when the downturn actually began.
AlexMuir 14y ago
PCs are now fucked in the moneyed mass market. The 'PC' brand is sunk - PC is to computer what Blackberry is to phone - you'll get one from your company, but you covet an iPhone/Macbook. This is thanks to: a) The sub-par cheap plastic laptops/netbooks that have been thrown out for the last three years at $300. They were barely usable at first, and now the keys have fallen off the keyboard and the speakers don't work. And that advert to renew some antivirus keeps popping up. And the computer whizzkid who used to fix it says he doesn't know much about PCs now - he's moved to an Apple Mac. b) Windows and IE. People are noticing that Facebook runs like crap in IE. And that their harddrive still needs formatting every year or the computer runs like a bag of shit. What's that Microsoft? Windows 8 has all this fixed. It doesn't matter - there are still millions of computers out there running Vista and Win 7, taking 60 seconds to boot up (standby mode never works - fuck knows why). Everytime I sit in front of one and right click-Exit all that shit down at the bottom right I curse you. c) The death of desktop software. - This is one of the two reasons I'm bullish on Apple (the other is that I want to see them move into the living room.) Now PCs and Linux - that's more like it but there's no profit in it.
- feralmoan 14y ago
  I think on the Windows side of things there's been a huge drop in the quality of PC games which is often overlooked, contributing to an overall degradation of the market. I used to only build rigs and run windows for games and dual boot into real work mode (ubuntu), but with such low quality content on PC nowdays its hard to even justify installing windows let alone building a PC. *disclaimer: I'm neither old or jaded, its a trend I've noticed amongst my peers also.
  - ladzoppelin 14y ago
    "low quality content on PC" is completely wrong. Some of the best programs around are desktop software. Samplitude, Sublime 2, Studio One 2 are a brief few. What happens in your circle of friends does not represent anything and is one of the reasons why I think Facebook is so unhealthy for the younger generation. BTW if you do real pro audio/video work you are not going to be using Linux simply because most "Pro" audio/video does not come in a Linux version.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
Tmmrn 14y ago
Better headline: Apple's share in the PC market increases. Wikipedia says: > The Macintosh ( /ˈmækɨntɒʃ/ mak-in-tosh),[1] or Mac, is a series of personal computers (PCs) designed, developed, and marketed by Apple Inc. And some random quote from a comment here: > the computer whizzkid who used to fix it says he doesn't know much about PCs now - he's moved to an Apple Mac. You mean he doesn't know about windows since the Apple Mac is a PC too.

13 points by vmyy99 14y ago

vtry 14y ago

I love this comment: "The working class folks who buy PC's are getting whacked financally, while rich people who buy Macs are making off like bandits."

mkaltenecker 14y ago
It’s kind of astonishing that people still have such weird believes about Macs. You can’t be successful to the level Apple is by only selling to rich people. Macs are successful as a mass market product.
- grecy 14y ago
  > You can’t be successful to the level Apple is by only selling to rich people Porsche and Ferrari come to mind...
  - Kynlyn 14y ago
    Porsche and Ferrari combined don't have the market share for vehicles that Apple has on computers, so the comment is valid. Apple's market share is too large to just be for "rich people."
  - mkaltenecker 14y ago
    That’s kind of the point. You can be successful with the rich as a target group – but you can’t be successful the way Apple is.
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    I'd guess both of them combined generate less revenue (or profit, for that matter) than just then 11-inch MacBook Air :D

taligent 14y ago

Would love to see that graph against the trend from desktops to laptops. It definitely seems like people when buying their first Mac are doing so in a laptop form factor usually the Air.

jsz0 14y ago

Easy to understand why this is happening. When Vista launched you could walk into a store and buy it on a PC that could barely run it. Mostly due to lack of RAM and bloat ware. Sure it was cheap but not a good value. A $350 borderline unusable computer is no bargain. I think people are starting I catch onto this. Things are better now in the PC market bur if you got burnt in the last few years the take away lesson is cheap isn't always better. If you only plan to replace your computer every 3-4 years $1000-$1500 isn't a huge investment to make.

grecy 14y ago
> A $350 borderline unusable computer is no bargain. I think people are starting I catch onto this. I agree 100%. Many friends and family have cheap and crap laptops that continually crash, and last only a year or two before being replaced (for another cheap, crap laptop) As time has gone on, you can see they are slowly realizing this is no bargain, and are starting to look at the expensive end, and towards Apple.
- freehunter 14y ago
  The problem is people buy cheap, crap laptops, notice they are cheap and crap, and hear that the Macs are not cheap but also not crap. They then run out and buy a quality Macbook for $2300, completely ignoring the fact that it's not that Apple makes a better product, it's that Apple makes a product that exists in a market these people have never even considered. Quality Windows laptops exist. I sold my HP Envy for almost as much as I bought it for after a year of solid use. It cost me $1000 brand new, and there was almost nothing the Macbook could offer besides OSX that could do anything but match it. Yes, Macbooks are better than $300 laptops. But you know what is also better than a $300 laptop? A $1000 laptop, and the extra $1300 in your pocket. Your Dodge Neon is a piece of junk, true, but before you shell out cash for BMW 5-series, why not take a look at the Ford Fusion?
  - grecy 14y ago
    > Your Dodge Neon is a piece of junk, true, but before you shell out cash for BMW 5-series, why not take a look at the Ford Fusion? Excellent point. I'm not saying people that are sick of cheap/crap laptops need or must go and buy an Apple product. I'm saying they start to realize buying something more expensive works out better in the long run. When looking at something more expensive, Apple's products come into the picture (but are not the whole picture, obviously) While we're here, lets not exaggerate too much. Apple makes exactly one laptop for $2300, and it's probably the fastest/most feature packed laptop ever made, without a competitor right now. Lots of their laptops are $1200 - $1700, which certainly is more expensive than the competition, but again, we've already decided we're willing to spend a little more for higher quality at this point.

olalonde 14y ago

It's kind of sad that Apple has virtually no competition for its MacBook Pro and MacBook Air in terms of build quality (last time I checked, I'd be happy to be proved wrong). Nowadays, I barely care about "hard" specs (CPU, memory, etc.) when shopping for a laptop, what I really care about is: low heating, low weight, thinness, long battery life and strong build quality. Although I'd rather use Linux than OS X, it's hard to find a laptop of comparable quality to the MacBooks for the requirements I mentioned (of course, it isn't to hard to find if what you are interested in is raw speed and performance).

_mayo 14y ago
Vizios new laptop and ultrabook look like they may be competitors. They've designed them from the ground up and ship without bloatware if you choose to run Windows. http://www.vizio.com/computing/ http://www.vizio.com/computing/
- cmelbye 14y ago
  That picture is hilarious, it's literally a clone of Apple's Mac line-up, right down to the wireless keyboard and Magic Trackpad.
  - DigitalJack 14y ago
    When minimalism is a desired trait, it isn't far fetched to see competing firms to come up with similar designs.
    - cmelbye 14y ago
      I don't understand the belief that minimalist design is obvious and that everyone else totally would've designed it the same way. It's almost like when someone walks up to a work of art and remarks that they easily could've done it themselves. Yeah, but you didn't. Minimalist design is hard, and you're kidding yourself if you honestly think that Vizio's line of computers would've looked the same had Apple never existed.

kbob 14y ago

Could that graph possibly be more misleading? Plotting the ratio of a number to one much smaller exaggerates small changes so you miss the big picture: PC sales dwarf Mac sales. A better graph: two lines, one showing PC sales each year and the other showing Mac sales. It would show that Mac sales are less, and it would also show how much the market has grown since 1984. Even better: the number of machines of each type currently in use.

pohl 14y ago
It depends on what you want to visualize. This graph is great for visualizing the effect of Mac sales outgrowing the pc market for 24 consecutive quarters.
- calciphus 14y ago
  This graph could just as easily be explained as people with high incomes (Mac users generally do) are more insulated from economic downturn than the people buying $300 laptops. Reading it how you want doesn't make it true. Even according to the graph, 15x means that one in 16 machines sold is a Mac. Math tells us that's 6.25% market share. That number hasn't appreciably changed in real terms in the last decade. Yes, moving from 4% to 6% is a 50% "growth", if you want to define growth that way. Normally, that's 2% growth. However, the inability of Mac to grab any significant market share from the overall PC market should be a concern, considering the relative popularity of their other devices.
  - pohl 14y ago
    This graph could just as easily be explained as people with high incomes (Mac users generally do) are more insulated from economic downturn than the people buying $300 laptops. Not if you look at the labels on the horizontal axis and you know when the downturn actually began.

AlexMuir 14y ago

PCs are now fucked in the moneyed mass market. The 'PC' brand is sunk - PC is to computer what Blackberry is to phone - you'll get one from your company, but you covet an iPhone/Macbook. This is thanks to: a) The sub-par cheap plastic laptops/netbooks that have been thrown out for the last three years at $300. They were barely usable at first, and now the keys have fallen off the keyboard and the speakers don't work. And that advert to renew some antivirus keeps popping up. And the computer whizzkid who used to fix it says he doesn't know much about PCs now - he's moved to an Apple Mac. b) Windows and IE. People are noticing that Facebook runs like crap in IE. And that their harddrive still needs formatting every year or the computer runs like a bag of shit. What's that Microsoft? Windows 8 has all this fixed. It doesn't matter - there are still millions of computers out there running Vista and Win 7, taking 60 seconds to boot up (standby mode never works - fuck knows why). Everytime I sit in front of one and right click-Exit all that shit down at the bottom right I curse you. c) The death of desktop software. - This is one of the two reasons I'm bullish on Apple (the other is that I want to see them move into the living room.) Now PCs and Linux - that's more like it but there's no profit in it.

feralmoan 14y ago
I think on the Windows side of things there's been a huge drop in the quality of PC games which is often overlooked, contributing to an overall degradation of the market. I used to only build rigs and run windows for games and dual boot into real work mode (ubuntu), but with such low quality content on PC nowdays its hard to even justify installing windows let alone building a PC. *disclaimer: I'm neither old or jaded, its a trend I've noticed amongst my peers also.
- ladzoppelin 14y ago
  "low quality content on PC" is completely wrong. Some of the best programs around are desktop software. Samplitude, Sublime 2, Studio One 2 are a brief few. What happens in your circle of friends does not represent anything and is one of the reasons why I think Facebook is so unhealthy for the younger generation. BTW if you do real pro audio/video work you are not going to be using Linux simply because most "Pro" audio/video does not come in a Linux version.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

Tmmrn 14y ago

Better headline: Apple's share in the PC market increases. Wikipedia says: > The Macintosh ( /ˈmækɨntɒʃ/ mak-in-tosh),[1] or Mac, is a series of personal computers (PCs) designed, developed, and marketed by Apple Inc. And some random quote from a comment here: > the computer whizzkid who used to fix it says he doesn't know much about PCs now - he's moved to an Apple Mac. You mean he doesn't know about windows since the Apple Mac is a PC too.