5 ms·

Open source never had any of the ethics or philosophy that free software has. Free software > open source.

trehalose 2y ago
Do you think, if open source never existed, if there were only free software and non-free software, we wouldn't be arguing about whether AI corporations can truly call their free models free?
- mrweasel 2y ago
  Companies always seemed much more weary of "free software" as compared to open source. Probably because of the ambiguous meaning of free in English, honestly that is one of the reason we have open source as a concept. Companies like the flexibility in "open source", even companies who release code as GPL rarely talk about "free software", they are open source companies.
- pessimizer 2y ago
  How could we? Free Software makes it clear that when you modify the Free thing and productize it, you have to share the modifications with the public under the same licensing. What's there to argue about? You're either doing that or you're not. If you find a loophole in the text, then the license gets updated, the loophole explicitly closed, and everybody who agrees moves to the new version.
  - arccy 2y ago
    based on current license choice of projects, turns out most people don't agree...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    Free is ambiguous term. It might be free in code and price. Or it might be free in price, but closed source. It could be free for me as private person, but not for business. Is freeware free software? It is rather murky term for me.
    - josephcsible 2y ago
      The word "free" on its own is ambiguous, but in the phrase "free software", this is the single unambiguous definition: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html If it's just free in price, then "freeware" is the correct term.
      - Ekaros 2y ago
        Some one gave me a disc with software on it for free. To me that sounds like free software I received. Even if the code is entirely proprietary. Or I download something like Irfanview for free from internet. That for consumer is free software to use... It is clearly bad term when it can be used to mean entirely different thing in regular and common use.
        goku12 2y ago
        That's entirely the fault of the English language. The same term when translated into many other languages (including my first language) creates no such confusion - because they have different words for free as in free beer and free as in free speech. The point here is that that linguistic peculiarity in just one language doesn't make the word 'free software' invalid or unsuitable, as long as 'free software' is a recognizable term (which it is). This is why FSF makes this explicitly clear with an entire article.
  - jraph 2y ago
    You are confusing Free Software with copyleft. Free Software licenses and Open source licenses are essentially the same (apart a few odd examples). The difference between the free software movement and the open source software movement is essentially philosophical.
    - pessimizer 2y ago
      > Free Software licenses and Open source licenses are essentially the same (apart a few odd examples). Apart from every example of GPL software, which can't be used under the permissive terms of Open Source. The last person I replied to about this used the word "essentially" here, also. Is there a common source slogan for this belief? Also, somebody should tell all of the people who keep rewriting GPL stuff in order to have an MIT version.
      - ensignavenger 2y ago
        The GPL qualifies as Open Source, it meets all the requirements of the OSD and is on the OSI list of open source licenses.
      - jraph 2y ago
        > Is there a common source slogan for this belief? eh, no, but it's a quite common word to express that idea. Also: > for this belief? > Also, somebody should tell all of the people Would you consider you might be wrong here? We are several people telling you so.
  - ensignavenger 2y ago
    Non-copyleft licenses can also qualify as Free Software under the FSF definition.
    - pessimizer 2y ago
      This is a technicality. Non-copyleft licenses can qualify as Free Software because they can be easily relicensed into Free Software (as well as into proprietary software.)
      - yejanll 2y ago
        They qualify as Free Software simply because they meet (though do not protect like copyleft) all 4 freedoms. The relicensing is more of a secondary point.
mistrial9 2y ago
in English, the word "free" has not served well.. suggested alternative "libre" ... oh, except LOSS does not sound great! seems challenging right now.. "free" has failed IMHO .. it is literally mocked by finance people no? every adult in the US and elsewhere must pay bills.. "free" is failing as a label
- pessimizer 2y ago
  Free Software has been wildly and unimaginably successful, and undergirds the world economy.
  - mistrial9 2y ago
    certainly agree (to clarify)
- homebrewer 2y ago
  Probably should have called it "freedom software" like "freedom fighter" or "freedom units" (as opposed to metric units).
  - bubblesnort 2y ago
    It's not too late for that.
  - Ringz 2y ago
    Don’t forget „Freedom Fries“.
  - anthk 2y ago
    Fair software.
    - ptman 2y ago
      https://faircode.io/ https://faircode.io/
    - goku12 2y ago

Do you think, if open source never existed, if there were only free software and non-free software, we wouldn't be arguing about whether AI corporations can truly call their free models free?

mrweasel 2y ago
Companies always seemed much more weary of "free software" as compared to open source. Probably because of the ambiguous meaning of free in English, honestly that is one of the reason we have open source as a concept. Companies like the flexibility in "open source", even companies who release code as GPL rarely talk about "free software", they are open source companies.
pessimizer 2y ago
How could we? Free Software makes it clear that when you modify the Free thing and productize it, you have to share the modifications with the public under the same licensing. What's there to argue about? You're either doing that or you're not. If you find a loophole in the text, then the license gets updated, the loophole explicitly closed, and everybody who agrees moves to the new version.
- arccy 2y ago
  based on current license choice of projects, turns out most people don't agree...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Free is ambiguous term. It might be free in code and price. Or it might be free in price, but closed source. It could be free for me as private person, but not for business. Is freeware free software? It is rather murky term for me.
  - josephcsible 2y ago
    The word "free" on its own is ambiguous, but in the phrase "free software", this is the single unambiguous definition: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html If it's just free in price, then "freeware" is the correct term.
    - Ekaros 2y ago
      Some one gave me a disc with software on it for free. To me that sounds like free software I received. Even if the code is entirely proprietary. Or I download something like Irfanview for free from internet. That for consumer is free software to use... It is clearly bad term when it can be used to mean entirely different thing in regular and common use.
      - goku12 2y ago
        That's entirely the fault of the English language. The same term when translated into many other languages (including my first language) creates no such confusion - because they have different words for free as in free beer and free as in free speech. The point here is that that linguistic peculiarity in just one language doesn't make the word 'free software' invalid or unsuitable, as long as 'free software' is a recognizable term (which it is). This is why FSF makes this explicitly clear with an entire article.
- jraph 2y ago
  You are confusing Free Software with copyleft. Free Software licenses and Open source licenses are essentially the same (apart a few odd examples). The difference between the free software movement and the open source software movement is essentially philosophical.
  - pessimizer 2y ago
    > Free Software licenses and Open source licenses are essentially the same (apart a few odd examples). Apart from every example of GPL software, which can't be used under the permissive terms of Open Source. The last person I replied to about this used the word "essentially" here, also. Is there a common source slogan for this belief? Also, somebody should tell all of the people who keep rewriting GPL stuff in order to have an MIT version.
    - ensignavenger 2y ago
      The GPL qualifies as Open Source, it meets all the requirements of the OSD and is on the OSI list of open source licenses.
    - jraph 2y ago
      > Is there a common source slogan for this belief? eh, no, but it's a quite common word to express that idea. Also: > for this belief? > Also, somebody should tell all of the people Would you consider you might be wrong here? We are several people telling you so.
- ensignavenger 2y ago
  Non-copyleft licenses can also qualify as Free Software under the FSF definition.
  - pessimizer 2y ago
    This is a technicality. Non-copyleft licenses can qualify as Free Software because they can be easily relicensed into Free Software (as well as into proprietary software.)
    - yejanll 2y ago
      They qualify as Free Software simply because they meet (though do not protect like copyleft) all 4 freedoms. The relicensing is more of a secondary point.

mistrial9 2y ago

in English, the word "free" has not served well.. suggested alternative "libre" ... oh, except LOSS does not sound great! seems challenging right now.. "free" has failed IMHO .. it is literally mocked by finance people no? every adult in the US and elsewhere must pay bills.. "free" is failing as a label

pessimizer 2y ago
Free Software has been wildly and unimaginably successful, and undergirds the world economy.
- mistrial9 2y ago
  certainly agree (to clarify)
homebrewer 2y ago
Probably should have called it "freedom software" like "freedom fighter" or "freedom units" (as opposed to metric units).
- bubblesnort 2y ago
  It's not too late for that.
- Ringz 2y ago
  Don’t forget „Freedom Fries“.
- anthk 2y ago
  Fair software.
  - ptman 2y ago
    https://faircode.io/ https://faircode.io/
  - goku12 2y ago