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Another interesting aspect of modern human evolution is the fact that brave men have a higher risk of dying in war, extreme sports, etc. Will male risk behavio

Another interesting aspect of modern human evolution is the fact that brave men have a higher risk of dying in war, extreme sports, etc. Will male risk behavior be more similar to female risk behavior, 10000 years from now? Nowadays, the use-case for masculine bravery is more or less obsolete. It had a purpose when there were wild animals roaming around human habitations, but nowadays it may very well trick a man into becoming a war casualty. Historians of the future might look back on pro-conscription advocates as those who stood in the way of the modern human.

solardev 2y ago
Gotta wonder what happens if aggression is bred out of the population genetics, then the aliens/AI/lost tribes/more isolated countries attack. As the world moves back to increased nationalism, some cultures are increasingly militaristic while others become keyboard warriors. Over evolutionary time, that could create different enough human subspecies? Maybe we'll see Klingons after all.
scotty79 2y ago
I believe that last half of a century of relative peace in the West is the direct result of the "bravest" (whatever that label means here) in two world wars. So that less brave men (and women) could build in peace. Unfortunately the population of brave men mostly recovered and we are ready for the next great war in Europe that will devastate everything.
- solardev 2y ago
  It's different when you're randomly drafting conscripts from the overall population though, vs having "brave" genes self-select into mortal combat before they can reproduce.
  - scotty79 2y ago
    There is no pure randomness in draft. People who know better are more likely to dodge it than "brave" people. Especially if the you draft significant percentage of men. You'll find out that nearly all that managed to avoid the draft are not "brave".
aliasxneo 2y ago
> masculine bravery It sounds like you're using a relatively loose definition here. Masculine bravery is not constrained to only the physical realm.
tux1968 2y ago
You're discounting the idea that being a brave man still has any reproductive advantage. I doubt very much that a fearful man is as attractive to women as a brave man, even in modern times.
- acadapter 2y ago
  But there are nuances to that. I know several people who have escaped a war-torn country and had a successful life elsewhere, instead of getting affected by military propaganda, and possibly losing everything just because of other people's territorial conflicts.
- Y_Y 2y ago
  > remember that we are not descended from fearful men Edward R. Murrow
  - acadapter 2y ago
    We are also not descendants of the 18 year old who eagerly followed a leader and died in a trench. What is it with people nowadays, can't there be at least some room for touching this type of sensitive topic? My post seems to become a downvote magnet. I just wanted to try an unusual perspective that is seldom talked about.
    - Y_Y 2y ago
      Fwiw I upvoted you. To be fair to Murrow he's talking about not being afraid to resist McCarthyism. As for general jingoistic propaganda, it's as old as time. I'd also consider it immoral and irrational. Interesting though, as it benefits societies and not (fighting) individuals, and so should have a complex evolutionary dynamics (maybe like with worker bees). _Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori_.
- acdha 2y ago
  That’s a pretty binary way to describe a spectrum of behavior. The stereotypical sniveling coward, sure, he’s probably not going on a lot of dates but what about someone who’s prudent or careful about the risks they take? One especially big confound here is remembering the distinction between having sex and having children. From an evolutionary standpoint, the latter is the only thing which matters and unlike animals humans have contraception which completely changes the situation. From an evolutionary perspective the stereotypical bad boy who’s sleeping around constantly might not have even as many children as the cautious, financially stable guy who is monogamous because the former guy’s partners are looking for fun while the latter’s is intentionally trying to start a family.
dominicrose 2y ago
evolution in humans is about who survives, right? more specifically about who survives before having children who themselves survive with or without their parents being brave may still be a quality if it's paired with other qualities 10k years is a lot, try predicting what happens in 10 years..
- solardev 2y ago
  Cultural influences matter a lot too. Even if the parents past down certain genes, a lot of that can be suppressed by environmental or cultural factors, everything from lifestyle to propaganda.

solardev 2y ago

Gotta wonder what happens if aggression is bred out of the population genetics, then the aliens/AI/lost tribes/more isolated countries attack. As the world moves back to increased nationalism, some cultures are increasingly militaristic while others become keyboard warriors. Over evolutionary time, that could create different enough human subspecies? Maybe we'll see Klingons after all.

scotty79 2y ago

I believe that last half of a century of relative peace in the West is the direct result of the "bravest" (whatever that label means here) in two world wars. So that less brave men (and women) could build in peace. Unfortunately the population of brave men mostly recovered and we are ready for the next great war in Europe that will devastate everything.

solardev 2y ago
It's different when you're randomly drafting conscripts from the overall population though, vs having "brave" genes self-select into mortal combat before they can reproduce.
- scotty79 2y ago
  There is no pure randomness in draft. People who know better are more likely to dodge it than "brave" people. Especially if the you draft significant percentage of men. You'll find out that nearly all that managed to avoid the draft are not "brave".

aliasxneo 2y ago

> masculine bravery It sounds like you're using a relatively loose definition here. Masculine bravery is not constrained to only the physical realm.

tux1968 2y ago

You're discounting the idea that being a brave man still has any reproductive advantage. I doubt very much that a fearful man is as attractive to women as a brave man, even in modern times.

acadapter 2y ago
But there are nuances to that. I know several people who have escaped a war-torn country and had a successful life elsewhere, instead of getting affected by military propaganda, and possibly losing everything just because of other people's territorial conflicts.
Y_Y 2y ago
> remember that we are not descended from fearful men Edward R. Murrow
- acadapter 2y ago
  We are also not descendants of the 18 year old who eagerly followed a leader and died in a trench. What is it with people nowadays, can't there be at least some room for touching this type of sensitive topic? My post seems to become a downvote magnet. I just wanted to try an unusual perspective that is seldom talked about.
  - Y_Y 2y ago
    Fwiw I upvoted you. To be fair to Murrow he's talking about not being afraid to resist McCarthyism. As for general jingoistic propaganda, it's as old as time. I'd also consider it immoral and irrational. Interesting though, as it benefits societies and not (fighting) individuals, and so should have a complex evolutionary dynamics (maybe like with worker bees). _Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori_.
acdha 2y ago
That’s a pretty binary way to describe a spectrum of behavior. The stereotypical sniveling coward, sure, he’s probably not going on a lot of dates but what about someone who’s prudent or careful about the risks they take? One especially big confound here is remembering the distinction between having sex and having children. From an evolutionary standpoint, the latter is the only thing which matters and unlike animals humans have contraception which completely changes the situation. From an evolutionary perspective the stereotypical bad boy who’s sleeping around constantly might not have even as many children as the cautious, financially stable guy who is monogamous because the former guy’s partners are looking for fun while the latter’s is intentionally trying to start a family.

dominicrose 2y ago

evolution in humans is about who survives, right? more specifically about who survives before having children who themselves survive with or without their parents being brave may still be a quality if it's paired with other qualities 10k years is a lot, try predicting what happens in 10 years..

solardev 2y ago
Cultural influences matter a lot too. Even if the parents past down certain genes, a lot of that can be suppressed by environmental or cultural factors, everything from lifestyle to propaganda.