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> Not sure if it was the lesson he meant to impart though since I think most took away from it that to win you need to lie, cheat and steal. Better to teach re
by OrigamiPastrami 2y ago
> Not sure if it was the lesson he meant to impart though since I think most took away from it that to win you need to lie, cheat and steal.
Better to teach reality than ideology, assuming you want to be a practitioner instead of a theorist.
- paulryanrogers 2y agoNothing ever bad happened when societies trade high trust for low trust. No sir. All roses and sunshine. Certainly worthwhile for me to bend or break any rule keeping me from my best life.
- OrigamiPastrami 2y agoHating cheaters does nothing to change the reality of it being an effective method for getting ahead.
- paulryanrogers 2y agoOnly in narrow circumstances and only to a point. Or at least that's my (limited) understanding of game theory.
- OrigamiPastrami 2y agoYou're a caricature of my original point and you don't even realize it.
- paulryanrogers 2y agoIME the reality is that trust erodes as cheating becomes widespread. The consequences of less trust are significantly higher costs and more stress and fear. FWIW, I don't advocate blind trust. Perhaps you meant to say we should teach the reality that cheating exists and is bad; not to pretend it doesn't exist? Or that it's hopeless to be honest and trustworthy because some others may not be? Which leads to ... apathy or more cheating and less trust.
- OrigamiPastrami 2y agoI never said cheating is moral. I said cheating is advantageous. You think cheaters care that they're hurting society? You can't be a cheater without being selfish.
- keiferski 2y agoIt would if said cheaters were socially ostracized. Instead we make big budget movies about them, they get famous, and then earn money from the newfound attention.
- lazide 2y agoAnd who’s fault is that exactky
- keiferski 2y agoPresumably people that break the rules in a high-trust society, or at least those that enable the rule-breaking.
- lazide 2y agoSo…. everyone?
- keiferski 2y agoDo you have a particular answer in mind, or a point to your question? Yes, societal rules in some sense depend on everyone enforcing them. But there are also people/organizations/etc. with more power to fund or support these violations of social rules, so presumably they’re more at fault too.
- OrigamiPastrami 2y agoSo your point is that if we fundamentally change society, ignoring the fact that this is integral to human nature itself, then we can fix this problem? That's about as helpful as saying we can have peace in the Middle East if we all just got along. It's comical how disconnected from reality it is, and yet you seem to think people should take it seriously.
- keiferski 2y ago
- Nasrudith 2y agoThe whole rhetoric of high trust society sounds like a fallacious argument from consequences against well deserved distrust by claiming it will basically lead to the collapse of society.
- Scene_Cast2 2y agoI like Margin Call's quote - "be first, be smarter, or cheat".