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Show HN: Retronews – TUI for HN and Lobsters emulating classical Usenet readers

109 points by luke8086 2y ago

manojbajaj95 2y ago
This is nice. Useful to look busy at office while reading HN
OutOfHere 2y ago
[flagged]
- elashri 2y ago
  Interesting take. I never tried to register on lobsters and never used slashdot too. But it is ironic you mention it. I tried to register and I got that > New user registration is now approved by Slashdot administrators. Please contact feedback@slashdot.org and let us know why you are interested in registering, and what you can add to the discussion. But to be honest I don't know about registration practices of either of them.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    That's an interesting development with Slashdot, one that I was not aware of, but even so, I feel that unlike with Lobsters, you will not be asked by Slashdot for approval from a preexisting Slashdot member. I guess this is what throwaway Google accounts are for.
- visil 2y ago
  > AI hate group Huh. That's a weird thing to say.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - PKop 2y ago
      What's wrong with hating things?
      - stavros 2y ago
        I hate hating things.
      - OutOfHere 2y ago
        If there is one thing I have learned, it is that hate fixes nothing in this world. It only makes thing worse. Only love fixes things, otherwise separation neutralizes them.
    - jclulow 2y ago
      Can you give some examples of the sort of harmful and dangerous untruths you're referring to? Sounds positively deleterious to me!
      - Zecc 2y ago
        > Can you give some examples of the sort of harmful and dangerous untruths you're referring to? I second this sentiment. I don't remember seeing any content (positive or negative) about AI in Lobsters; which might be indicative of something.
        OutOfHere 2y ago
        Please refer to the fresh reply to the parent comment.
      - OutOfHere 2y ago
        I would have to "out" certain individuals to share the evidence, and I do not feel comfortable doing it. It goes like this though: 1. New Lobster user starts posting links to valid new non-bs AI related open-source projects. 2. Established users feel threatened that their world is being turned upside down. They start posting hateful bs comments, and escalate it to outright lies about the projects. These lies are nothing but FUD that allow them to dismiss the projects out of hand. As we know, the first stage of acceptance is denial. It is obvious that the established users are not into AI, and will never be. Because these are users are well-known, their lies gather a lot of upvotes from sympathizers who don't care about fact-checking anything. New user's account is now at permanent risk due to the downvotes. For the sake of argument, the links posted were to GitHub projects with 100+ or even 500+ stars. 3. New user calls out the lies, but only gets deeper into trouble with the mods and admins taking the side of the established user despite their obvious lies. After reporting, the new user gets banned for calling out the lies. Moreover, his corrections of the lies get deleted. Nobody cares for the fact that the established user had stopped posting links long ago, and the new user could've continued to post many more relevant links if things had gone his way. --- Whether you believe this report or not, surely you can appreciate that groupthink is undesirable for any community, and new blood providing new ideas are a must for a community to continue to prosper. In stark contrast, Lobsters' constrained registration system which allows only referred users to register is one that maximizes groupthink.
- CaptainFever 2y ago
  I agree with you, but this is an odd thread to post this comment in.
- keyle 2y ago
  I read both and this has never been in my thoughts. If you're going to make such bold claims out the wazoo, back it up with some proof? Examples would be a good start.
  - OutOfHere 2y ago
    This is not evidence, but it's something: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41468339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41468339
Snoddas 2y ago
I see it's read only Is it possible to launch a browser for writing replys/comments?
- luke8086 2y ago
  Sure, that's how I use it. In every message you can see its URL in the Content-Location header. You can press 'o' to select it and open in a browser, and you can select the browser with the BROWSER env var. Although many terminals have built-in support for simply clicking on URLs, and that's what I usually do.
camgunz 2y ago
Wow I love the look of this; gonna try it out.
reaperducer 2y ago
Not really retro news, since it assumes everyone is using a large window and full-color terminal. I was hoping to use it with one of my retro machines, and got use_default_colors() returned ERR It should have --monochrome, and --ascii options. The Unix ethos used to be "run anywhere on anything," but even basic programs like top assume a window of a certain size. Similarly, Lynx markets itself as being for retro environments, but a number of its flags that would be useful in retro environments are ignored/broken. Surprisingly (to me), htop is very well-behaved, and works even in tiny windows, or on tiny monochrome screens. There's more to retro than just being text.
- luke8086 2y ago
  To be precise, it only assumed 80x25 terminals with 16 colors, which I think fits into some definitions of retro, but I see your point :) I've just added support for ascii & monochrome modes, and reduced the required screen size to 80x12, which I think is a reasonable minimum for readability. Would you mind sharing what kind of hardware did you try it on?
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    You're almost there. But 80x12 is still a bit big for truly retro hardware. Remember that 80 column screens were not the majority of computers in what we now consider the retro age. 40, 36, and even 32 columns screens were common. Also, terminals would often have status bars, reducing the amount of vertical real estate. 12 sounds small, but with status indicators active, you're looking at 10 or even 8 usable lines.
    - luke8086 2y ago
      Eh, to do it properly, 40 cols and less would require adjusting the whole layout and I just want to keep the code simple. I'm also not sure if the code would be fast enough to run on so old machines, I mean it's Python and not optimized at all. But feel free to fork and tinker if you're interested, at this point it's not really far off.
    - 2y ago
nunobrito 2y ago
Tried it, was fun. How about automated updates every minute or so? Usually I keep these windows open in the background and look at what pops up.
- DANmode 2y ago
  Script it? ^_^
  - nunobrito 2y ago
    Or code it.. I'm coding something similar for nostr events. Might add HN too keep different feeds on the same TUI location. Text is less distractive than these modern crafts of devil called CSS and god-forbid: images. Always nice to see text consoles coming back.
- luke8086 2y ago
  Actually one of the reasons for writing the app was to reduce my compulsive browsing of social media. A feature like this would go in the opposite direction :) But if you really want it, feel free to tinker with the code, it should be pretty straightforward.
neilv 2y ago
In later peak Usenet, there was also threading, and scoring. Scoring rules would let individuals define rules for how thread subtrees and siblings are ordered, highlighted, and hidden. For example, comments by a particular user you like bump up the ordering priority for that comment, and also maybe some boost to the tree above it. And some keyword you think tends to happen in threads you don't like adds a negative score to that subtree, and maybe it hits a threshold causing it to be hidden (though the positive score from that user you like participating might save it, with you thinking that maybe they'd step into a flamewar and say something smart). And, separate from rules you defined, you could also manually hit a key to raise or lower a post or subtree (which could be used as an alternative to the earlier feature to say hide a subtree no matter whether more comments are made on it, like you might do for a flamewar).
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
akuchling 2y ago
I noticed the README comment about NNTP's limitations. I wonder if a new NNTP-over-HTTP protocol could find enough traction among the text-using crowd, or if ActivityPub could be used to provide a similar feature set efficiently.
jll29 2y ago
Why not an NNTP gateway? NNTP doesn't support browsing threads by title (let alone paginated) and requesting their messages on demand. Clients need to fetch metadata of all available messages in all available threads in advance. Given the volume of messages on HN, synchronizing them to the gateway is not practical. Even when attempted, some clients struggle with the sheer number of messages in a single group. That was also my first question, why not do it "properly", and while the reasons given are understandable brick walls, it seems to me that the real solution would be a re-vamping of the over-aged NNTP protocol, or even an outright new protocol. I always liked USENET news for its "pull" approach, and for the same reason hated email newsletters. The threaded discussions via Emacs GNUS were a delight, and modern Web-based forum solutions are distractive and never respect my font/color settings; plus, they also diff in UX.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

109 points by luke8086 2y ago

manojbajaj95 2y ago

This is nice. Useful to look busy at office while reading HN

OutOfHere 2y ago

[flagged]

elashri 2y ago
Interesting take. I never tried to register on lobsters and never used slashdot too. But it is ironic you mention it. I tried to register and I got that > New user registration is now approved by Slashdot administrators. Please contact feedback@slashdot.org and let us know why you are interested in registering, and what you can add to the discussion. But to be honest I don't know about registration practices of either of them.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  That's an interesting development with Slashdot, one that I was not aware of, but even so, I feel that unlike with Lobsters, you will not be asked by Slashdot for approval from a preexisting Slashdot member. I guess this is what throwaway Google accounts are for.
visil 2y ago
> AI hate group Huh. That's a weird thing to say.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - PKop 2y ago
    What's wrong with hating things?
    - stavros 2y ago
      I hate hating things.
    - OutOfHere 2y ago
      If there is one thing I have learned, it is that hate fixes nothing in this world. It only makes thing worse. Only love fixes things, otherwise separation neutralizes them.
  - jclulow 2y ago
    Can you give some examples of the sort of harmful and dangerous untruths you're referring to? Sounds positively deleterious to me!
    - Zecc 2y ago
      > Can you give some examples of the sort of harmful and dangerous untruths you're referring to? I second this sentiment. I don't remember seeing any content (positive or negative) about AI in Lobsters; which might be indicative of something.
      - OutOfHere 2y ago
        Please refer to the fresh reply to the parent comment.
    - OutOfHere 2y ago
      I would have to "out" certain individuals to share the evidence, and I do not feel comfortable doing it. It goes like this though: 1. New Lobster user starts posting links to valid new non-bs AI related open-source projects. 2. Established users feel threatened that their world is being turned upside down. They start posting hateful bs comments, and escalate it to outright lies about the projects. These lies are nothing but FUD that allow them to dismiss the projects out of hand. As we know, the first stage of acceptance is denial. It is obvious that the established users are not into AI, and will never be. Because these are users are well-known, their lies gather a lot of upvotes from sympathizers who don't care about fact-checking anything. New user's account is now at permanent risk due to the downvotes. For the sake of argument, the links posted were to GitHub projects with 100+ or even 500+ stars. 3. New user calls out the lies, but only gets deeper into trouble with the mods and admins taking the side of the established user despite their obvious lies. After reporting, the new user gets banned for calling out the lies. Moreover, his corrections of the lies get deleted. Nobody cares for the fact that the established user had stopped posting links long ago, and the new user could've continued to post many more relevant links if things had gone his way. --- Whether you believe this report or not, surely you can appreciate that groupthink is undesirable for any community, and new blood providing new ideas are a must for a community to continue to prosper. In stark contrast, Lobsters' constrained registration system which allows only referred users to register is one that maximizes groupthink.
CaptainFever 2y ago
I agree with you, but this is an odd thread to post this comment in.
keyle 2y ago
I read both and this has never been in my thoughts. If you're going to make such bold claims out the wazoo, back it up with some proof? Examples would be a good start.
- OutOfHere 2y ago
  This is not evidence, but it's something: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41468339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41468339

Snoddas 2y ago

I see it's read only Is it possible to launch a browser for writing replys/comments?

luke8086 2y ago
Sure, that's how I use it. In every message you can see its URL in the Content-Location header. You can press 'o' to select it and open in a browser, and you can select the browser with the BROWSER env var. Although many terminals have built-in support for simply clicking on URLs, and that's what I usually do.

camgunz 2y ago

Wow I love the look of this; gonna try it out.

reaperducer 2y ago

Not really retro news, since it assumes everyone is using a large window and full-color terminal. I was hoping to use it with one of my retro machines, and got use_default_colors() returned ERR It should have --monochrome, and --ascii options. The Unix ethos used to be "run anywhere on anything," but even basic programs like top assume a window of a certain size. Similarly, Lynx markets itself as being for retro environments, but a number of its flags that would be useful in retro environments are ignored/broken. Surprisingly (to me), htop is very well-behaved, and works even in tiny windows, or on tiny monochrome screens. There's more to retro than just being text.

luke8086 2y ago
To be precise, it only assumed 80x25 terminals with 16 colors, which I think fits into some definitions of retro, but I see your point :) I've just added support for ascii & monochrome modes, and reduced the required screen size to 80x12, which I think is a reasonable minimum for readability. Would you mind sharing what kind of hardware did you try it on?
- reaperducer 2y ago
  You're almost there. But 80x12 is still a bit big for truly retro hardware. Remember that 80 column screens were not the majority of computers in what we now consider the retro age. 40, 36, and even 32 columns screens were common. Also, terminals would often have status bars, reducing the amount of vertical real estate. 12 sounds small, but with status indicators active, you're looking at 10 or even 8 usable lines.
  - luke8086 2y ago
    Eh, to do it properly, 40 cols and less would require adjusting the whole layout and I just want to keep the code simple. I'm also not sure if the code would be fast enough to run on so old machines, I mean it's Python and not optimized at all. But feel free to fork and tinker if you're interested, at this point it's not really far off.
  - 2y ago

nunobrito 2y ago

Tried it, was fun. How about automated updates every minute or so? Usually I keep these windows open in the background and look at what pops up.

DANmode 2y ago
Script it? ^_^
- nunobrito 2y ago
  Or code it.. I'm coding something similar for nostr events. Might add HN too keep different feeds on the same TUI location. Text is less distractive than these modern crafts of devil called CSS and god-forbid: images. Always nice to see text consoles coming back.
luke8086 2y ago
Actually one of the reasons for writing the app was to reduce my compulsive browsing of social media. A feature like this would go in the opposite direction :) But if you really want it, feel free to tinker with the code, it should be pretty straightforward.

neilv 2y ago

In later peak Usenet, there was also threading, and scoring. Scoring rules would let individuals define rules for how thread subtrees and siblings are ordered, highlighted, and hidden. For example, comments by a particular user you like bump up the ordering priority for that comment, and also maybe some boost to the tree above it. And some keyword you think tends to happen in threads you don't like adds a negative score to that subtree, and maybe it hits a threshold causing it to be hidden (though the positive score from that user you like participating might save it, with you thinking that maybe they'd step into a flamewar and say something smart). And, separate from rules you defined, you could also manually hit a key to raise or lower a post or subtree (which could be used as an alternative to the earlier feature to say hide a subtree no matter whether more comments are made on it, like you might do for a flamewar).

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

akuchling 2y ago

I noticed the README comment about NNTP's limitations. I wonder if a new NNTP-over-HTTP protocol could find enough traction among the text-using crowd, or if ActivityPub could be used to provide a similar feature set efficiently.

jll29 2y ago

Why not an NNTP gateway? NNTP doesn't support browsing threads by title (let alone paginated) and requesting their messages on demand. Clients need to fetch metadata of all available messages in all available threads in advance. Given the volume of messages on HN, synchronizing them to the gateway is not practical. Even when attempted, some clients struggle with the sheer number of messages in a single group. That was also my first question, why not do it "properly", and while the reasons given are understandable brick walls, it seems to me that the real solution would be a re-vamping of the over-aged NNTP protocol, or even an outright new protocol. I always liked USENET news for its "pull" approach, and for the same reason hated email newsletters. The threaded discussions via Emacs GNUS were a delight, and modern Web-based forum solutions are distractive and never respect my font/color settings; plus, they also diff in UX.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]