7 ms·

I never understood why AMD is not at least making the source of these available. I would actually really like a secure cryptographic processor that's been exten

by dtx1 2y ago

I never understood why AMD is not at least making the source of these available. I would actually really like a secure cryptographic processor that's been extensively vetted and trustworthy.

DaSHacka 2y ago
The common assumption is that their hands are tied on that matter.
- transpute 2y ago
  Like OpenSIL, AMD could start a long-term project to replace the closed ASP with an open alternative. The industry now has Calpitra (AMD contributes), OpenTitan, TockOS (used by Pluton) and other open hardware and software projects for security enclaves.
rajeshr 2y ago
They did publish the source: https://github.com/amd/AMD-ASPFW https://github.com/amd/AMD-ASPFW This was the PR(!): https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1154/amd-shares-the-technical-details-of-technology-powering https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1154/am... I wonder if the reported exploits forced them to publish the source.
- shrubble 2y ago
  That is only the part that allows encrypted virtual machines on EPYC cpus. The PSP in some form is on all AMD processors since about 2013/2014.
  - tonetegeatinst 2y ago
    Encrypted vm's? On epyc? What's the performance penalty for that?
    - toast0 2y ago
      I don't know the performance implications, but the brief description of the feature is that guest memory is encrypted with a key that the host doesn't know, so the host can't observe the contents of guest memory.
    - bobbiechen 2y ago
      In benchmarks from Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud, 1-8% overhead for throughput. Microsoft Azure: https://community.amd.com/t5/epyc-processors/microsoft-azure-confidential-computing-powered-by-3rd-gen-epyc/ba-p/497796 https://community.amd.com/t5/epyc-processors/microsoft-azure... Google Cloud: https://www.amd.com/content/dam/amd/en/documents/epyc-business-docs/performance-briefs/confidential-computing-performance-sev-snp-google-n2d-instances.pdf https://www.amd.com/content/dam/amd/en/documents/epyc-busine...
    - strstr 2y ago
      For CPU bound work loads, pretty low, but not low enough that it's free (~5%). For devices (especially latency sensitive workloads), it's quite bad. Device accesses have to be bounce-buffered. You can't do anything vaguely zero copy, since the device can't DMA to or from the VM. Future hardware support will mitigate that (mutually attested VM/Device interactions), but no real world devices support it yet.
shrubble 2y ago
Many believe it was not added as a result of customer requirements, but that the government leaned on them to add it as a tool of surveillance.
gchadwick 2y ago
That's exactly what we're doing with OpenTitan: https://opentitan.org/ https://opentitan.org/ Which Google will be using in Chromebook for it's security chip https://lowrisc.org/news/nuvoton-develops-opentitan-based-security-chip-as-next-gen-security-solution-for-chromebooks/ https://lowrisc.org/news/nuvoton-develops-opentitan-based-se...
- arresin 2y ago
  Very cool. Bookmarked.
password4321 2y ago
"AMD Confirms It Won't Opensource EPYC's Platform Security Processor Code" https://hothardware.com/news/amd-confirms-it-will-not-be-opensourcing-epycs-platform-security-processor-code https://hothardware.com/news/amd-confirms-it-will-not-be-ope... (2017) > Dr. Lisa Su gave some hope that something would be done when she said she'd discuss things internally as the result of a recent reddit AMA question. Ultimately, though, it turns out that AMD is not opening up the PSP https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160097335?t=00h35m35s https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160097335?t=00h35m35s

by dtx1 2y ago

I never understood why AMD is not at least making the source of these available. I would actually really like a secure cryptographic processor that's been extensively vetted and trustworthy.

DaSHacka 2y ago

The common assumption is that their hands are tied on that matter.

transpute 2y ago
Like OpenSIL, AMD could start a long-term project to replace the closed ASP with an open alternative. The industry now has Calpitra (AMD contributes), OpenTitan, TockOS (used by Pluton) and other open hardware and software projects for security enclaves.

rajeshr 2y ago

They did publish the source: https://github.com/amd/AMD-ASPFW https://github.com/amd/AMD-ASPFW This was the PR(!): https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1154/amd-shares-the-technical-details-of-technology-powering https://ir.amd.com/news-events/press-releases/detail/1154/am... I wonder if the reported exploits forced them to publish the source.

shrubble 2y ago
That is only the part that allows encrypted virtual machines on EPYC cpus. The PSP in some form is on all AMD processors since about 2013/2014.
- tonetegeatinst 2y ago
  Encrypted vm's? On epyc? What's the performance penalty for that?
  - toast0 2y ago
    I don't know the performance implications, but the brief description of the feature is that guest memory is encrypted with a key that the host doesn't know, so the host can't observe the contents of guest memory.
  - bobbiechen 2y ago
    In benchmarks from Microsoft Azure and Google Cloud, 1-8% overhead for throughput. Microsoft Azure: https://community.amd.com/t5/epyc-processors/microsoft-azure-confidential-computing-powered-by-3rd-gen-epyc/ba-p/497796 https://community.amd.com/t5/epyc-processors/microsoft-azure... Google Cloud: https://www.amd.com/content/dam/amd/en/documents/epyc-business-docs/performance-briefs/confidential-computing-performance-sev-snp-google-n2d-instances.pdf https://www.amd.com/content/dam/amd/en/documents/epyc-busine...
  - strstr 2y ago
    For CPU bound work loads, pretty low, but not low enough that it's free (~5%). For devices (especially latency sensitive workloads), it's quite bad. Device accesses have to be bounce-buffered. You can't do anything vaguely zero copy, since the device can't DMA to or from the VM. Future hardware support will mitigate that (mutually attested VM/Device interactions), but no real world devices support it yet.

shrubble 2y ago

Many believe it was not added as a result of customer requirements, but that the government leaned on them to add it as a tool of surveillance.

gchadwick 2y ago

That's exactly what we're doing with OpenTitan: https://opentitan.org/ https://opentitan.org/ Which Google will be using in Chromebook for it's security chip https://lowrisc.org/news/nuvoton-develops-opentitan-based-security-chip-as-next-gen-security-solution-for-chromebooks/ https://lowrisc.org/news/nuvoton-develops-opentitan-based-se...

arresin 2y ago
Very cool. Bookmarked.

password4321 2y ago

"AMD Confirms It Won't Opensource EPYC's Platform Security Processor Code" https://hothardware.com/news/amd-confirms-it-will-not-be-opensourcing-epycs-platform-security-processor-code https://hothardware.com/news/amd-confirms-it-will-not-be-ope... (2017) > Dr. Lisa Su gave some hope that something would be done when she said she'd discuss things internally as the result of a recent reddit AMA question. Ultimately, though, it turns out that AMD is not opening up the PSP https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160097335?t=00h35m35s https://www.twitch.tv/videos/160097335?t=00h35m35s