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A license isn't needed for an electric bicycle. The law states that it is classified as an electric bicycle if it is only pedal assist and only up to 24kph (15m

A license isn't needed for an electric bicycle. The law states that it is classified as an electric bicycle if it is only pedal assist and only up to 24kph (15mph). The issue arises when either there are no pedals, or it can be operated without using pedals, like these suitcases. Electric only operation moves the classification to a scooter, thus license needed. https://archive.ph/Fw5lX https://archive.ph/Fw5lX https://www.keishicho.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/kotsu/jikoboshi/electric_mobility/pedal.html https://www.keishicho.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/kotsu/jikoboshi/elec...

Sparkyte 2y ago
Simple, attach non-functional pedals.
- Danieru 2y ago
  You'd need functional pedals, and for the electric push to be equal or lower than the human motive power.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    > for the electric push to be equal or lower than the human motive power Is that the rule for normal ebikes? That's very restrictive!
    - Danieru 2y ago
      In Japan, a bicycle with no functional pedals is called: a broken bicycle. A bike with a motor which propels itself is called: a motor bike. Japan has had bicycles with electric assist motors for 10+ years. They are popular with moms who need to carry kids but where a car is too cumbersome. Japan has also had motor bikes for a century. They are popular with lower class workers who want to skip traffic jams and commute cheaper. Japan is not confused by the shape of a motor bike. Making it look like luggage does not make it luggage (with a motor) but rather a luggage shaped motor bike. Japan appears to handle this Nominative determinism issue quite well.
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        That's not my question. It's the part about the motor needing to be no stronger than the person. What if the motor puts in double what you pedal?
        Danieru 2y ago
        That's not allowed. The motor cannot put in more energy than the pedeling does. Thus the motor can at best double your power.
    - presentation 2y ago
      What really happens is people like my friend make their own ebike that is super powerful but looks like a normal bicycle, and while it is against the rules nobody ever questions it because it looks like a bicycle.
    - numpad0 2y ago
      Looks like it was relaxed in 2008 to up to 200% of input at up to 10kph/6mph then taper to zero at 24kph/15mph, yeah it is kind of restrictive. I think equal power part is not too complicated to implement, with a load-bearing "just" you just sync synchronous motor driver to the rotor phase and limit current upstream. I believe a prototype also has to be brought to some office to get certified. Frankly it's all par for the course for a Japanese regulation; engineering cost is considered free and everything is supposed to be approved by someone official-ish.
- tantalor 2y ago
  No need, you can always just kick your feet on the ground like a balance bike. Then the motor is only assisting your foot power, which makes it an ebike.
cryptica 2y ago
Such a bad regulations. Rideable luggage actually seems reasonably innovative. It sucks how the government often gets in the way of meaningful improvements. Feels like we are really headed for dark ages.
- behringer 2y ago
  Sure, except for the people they inevitably run into and/or injure. Sometimes it is better to restrict these things especially in public places.
  - bilsbie 2y ago
    How does it work for bicycles?
    - mikepurvis 2y ago
      You don’t ride your bicycle through an airport terminal?
      - sandworm101 2y ago
        Why not? If it can be folded into a carry-on, draw a line between bicycle and wheelchair. I doubt many would object to a carry that turns into an electric wheelchair.
        labster 2y ago
        This reminds me so much of the “no vehicles in the park” test.[1] We allow wheelchairs as a special case for people with mobility issues, not because we want bike lanes inside airports. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36453856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36453856
      - samatman 2y ago
        I have actually, several times. I own a Brompton, which fits through the baggage X-ray and can be checked like a stroller at the gate. I've flown with it more than 12 times, and you had better believe I've ridden it in the terminal I only do this during late arrivals when the airport is almost empty, travel at a reasonable speed, and otherwise conduct myself like a civilized human being. On a bike. In the airport. It's great actually.
nradov 2y ago
In China some able-bodied people have started riding electric wheelchairs to get around licensing and usage laws restricting scooters. Some of the wheelchairs are pretty quick now, basically the same drivetrain in a different package.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  I tried to Google about this but I could not find anything. Can you share a source?
  - nox101 2y ago
    Do these count? https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+fast+motorized+wheelchairs https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+fast+motorized+wheel... No idea if this is real but it was one of the results https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F5vZmm7isw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F5vZmm7isw
throwaway2037 2y ago
How does Loop work? They are rental electric scooters.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Danieru 2y ago
  Have you noticed how Loop scooters in Japan have a tiny license plate? That's because they require a license to rent and operate. That's because they are a self powered mobile vehicle. An automobile if you will. Automobiles in Japan require a license to drive. Plus you must drive them on the road, with the other automobiles.
  - presentation 2y ago
    FYI nowadays you don’t need a drivers license to ride them. But yeah they are registered vehicles.
    - throwaway2037 2y ago
      JapanTimes agrees with you: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/japan/2023/07/21/explainer/bike-scooter-taxi-nonrail-transit-tokyo/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/japan/2023/07/21/explainer/bike... > you’ll have to pass a quick traffic test and submit proof of identification on the app in order to begin renting.
  - numpad0 2y ago
    They managed to get a new category created just for Luup scooters. I've seen some on social media passive-aggressively wondering what kind of sorcery was at play for that.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  Late edit: I should I have written "Luup", not "Loop".
narism 2y ago
There was a new carve out created last year that allows driving electric scooters without a license, provided they meet some requirements (speed limiter, a speed indicator light, etc). https://www.keishicho.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/kotsu/jikoboshi/electric_mobility/electric_kickboard.html https://www.keishicho.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/kotsu/jikoboshi/elec...

Sparkyte 2y ago

Simple, attach non-functional pedals.

Danieru 2y ago
You'd need functional pedals, and for the electric push to be equal or lower than the human motive power.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  > for the electric push to be equal or lower than the human motive power Is that the rule for normal ebikes? That's very restrictive!
  - Danieru 2y ago
    In Japan, a bicycle with no functional pedals is called: a broken bicycle. A bike with a motor which propels itself is called: a motor bike. Japan has had bicycles with electric assist motors for 10+ years. They are popular with moms who need to carry kids but where a car is too cumbersome. Japan has also had motor bikes for a century. They are popular with lower class workers who want to skip traffic jams and commute cheaper. Japan is not confused by the shape of a motor bike. Making it look like luggage does not make it luggage (with a motor) but rather a luggage shaped motor bike. Japan appears to handle this Nominative determinism issue quite well.
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      That's not my question. It's the part about the motor needing to be no stronger than the person. What if the motor puts in double what you pedal?
      - Danieru 2y ago
        That's not allowed. The motor cannot put in more energy than the pedeling does. Thus the motor can at best double your power.
  - presentation 2y ago
    What really happens is people like my friend make their own ebike that is super powerful but looks like a normal bicycle, and while it is against the rules nobody ever questions it because it looks like a bicycle.
  - numpad0 2y ago
    Looks like it was relaxed in 2008 to up to 200% of input at up to 10kph/6mph then taper to zero at 24kph/15mph, yeah it is kind of restrictive. I think equal power part is not too complicated to implement, with a load-bearing "just" you just sync synchronous motor driver to the rotor phase and limit current upstream. I believe a prototype also has to be brought to some office to get certified. Frankly it's all par for the course for a Japanese regulation; engineering cost is considered free and everything is supposed to be approved by someone official-ish.
tantalor 2y ago
No need, you can always just kick your feet on the ground like a balance bike. Then the motor is only assisting your foot power, which makes it an ebike.

cryptica 2y ago

Such a bad regulations. Rideable luggage actually seems reasonably innovative. It sucks how the government often gets in the way of meaningful improvements. Feels like we are really headed for dark ages.

behringer 2y ago
Sure, except for the people they inevitably run into and/or injure. Sometimes it is better to restrict these things especially in public places.
- bilsbie 2y ago
  How does it work for bicycles?
  - mikepurvis 2y ago
    You don’t ride your bicycle through an airport terminal?
    - sandworm101 2y ago
      Why not? If it can be folded into a carry-on, draw a line between bicycle and wheelchair. I doubt many would object to a carry that turns into an electric wheelchair.
      - labster 2y ago
        This reminds me so much of the “no vehicles in the park” test.[1] We allow wheelchairs as a special case for people with mobility issues, not because we want bike lanes inside airports. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36453856 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36453856
    - samatman 2y ago
      I have actually, several times. I own a Brompton, which fits through the baggage X-ray and can be checked like a stroller at the gate. I've flown with it more than 12 times, and you had better believe I've ridden it in the terminal I only do this during late arrivals when the airport is almost empty, travel at a reasonable speed, and otherwise conduct myself like a civilized human being. On a bike. In the airport. It's great actually.

nradov 2y ago

In China some able-bodied people have started riding electric wheelchairs to get around licensing and usage laws restricting scooters. Some of the wheelchairs are pretty quick now, basically the same drivetrain in a different package.

throwaway2037 2y ago
I tried to Google about this but I could not find anything. Can you share a source?
- nox101 2y ago
  Do these count? https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+fast+motorized+wheelchairs https://www.google.com/search?q=chinese+fast+motorized+wheel... No idea if this is real but it was one of the results https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F5vZmm7isw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F5vZmm7isw

throwaway2037 2y ago

How does Loop work? They are rental electric scooters.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Danieru 2y ago
Have you noticed how Loop scooters in Japan have a tiny license plate? That's because they require a license to rent and operate. That's because they are a self powered mobile vehicle. An automobile if you will. Automobiles in Japan require a license to drive. Plus you must drive them on the road, with the other automobiles.
- presentation 2y ago
  FYI nowadays you don’t need a drivers license to ride them. But yeah they are registered vehicles.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    JapanTimes agrees with you: https://www.japantimes.co.jp/japan/2023/07/21/explainer/bike-scooter-taxi-nonrail-transit-tokyo/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/japan/2023/07/21/explainer/bike... > you’ll have to pass a quick traffic test and submit proof of identification on the app in order to begin renting.
- numpad0 2y ago
  They managed to get a new category created just for Luup scooters. I've seen some on social media passive-aggressively wondering what kind of sorcery was at play for that.
throwaway2037 2y ago
Late edit: I should I have written "Luup", not "Loop".

narism 2y ago

There was a new carve out created last year that allows driving electric scooters without a license, provided they meet some requirements (speed limiter, a speed indicator light, etc). https://www.keishicho.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/kotsu/jikoboshi/electric_mobility/electric_kickboard.html https://www.keishicho.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/kotsu/jikoboshi/elec...