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The current U.S. position towards Cuba continues to puzzle me. Their geopolitical stance is nowhere near being on the same level as North Korea or Iran. Given C

The current U.S. position towards Cuba continues to puzzle me. Their geopolitical stance is nowhere near being on the same level as North Korea or Iran. Given Cuba's proximity and relative productive capacity you'd think that we'd be easy allies if only they hadn't upset a bunch of dead politicians 60 years ago.

seniorivn 2y ago
They are a hostile dictatorship, with zero resources but their oppressed people. Why would USA be interested in allying with them?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- atlas_hugged 2y ago
  Their government is hostile like a friend’s chihuahua. It will make it known it doesn’t like you, but it ain’t going to do anything about it because it can’t. The people on the other hand are truly wonderful human beings that would love to be able to have visitors or visit other countries themselves. Who cares if some politicians feelings get hurt. People want to be free to do what they want in a supposedly free country.
  - spiderice 2y ago
    What does any of what you said have to do with the US though?
  - joshlemer 2y ago
    > it ain’t going to do anything about it because it can’t And, it can't because it's too poor to be able to do anything, which is partly a result of the sanctions.
  - ImJamal 2y ago
    If you open up trade they will become stronger. Look at China before and after we opened up trade with them. What happens of Cuba becomes more powerful and is still hostile while being so close to the US?
- energy123 2y ago
  The US should oppose expansionist dictatorships that attempt to alter the status quo via forceful revisionism. That's Russia in Ukraine and China in Asia. I don't see how opposing Cuba achieves anything in the US interests.
  - fjdjshsh 2y ago
    I keep seeing this "expansionist dictatorship" applied to China when the USA is discussed. The USA has invaded plenty of countries in the last few decades, has a history of colonialism (Cuba, Philippines, Puerto Rico...sure, less than some European countries, but still). Which countries has China invaded in the past few decades?
    - cubanchin 2y ago
      [dead]
    - energy123 2y ago
      Did you say "last few decades" to conveniently exclude their invasion of Vietnam? Not that it matters. Policy should not be made based on a naive extrapolation of historical track record. Culture, interests and leadership are all things that change over time. Modern China, like Russia, but unlike other autocracies such as Cuba or Saudi Arabia, is a revisionist power - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_state Their publicly broadcasted intention is to change the status quo, forcefully if needed. That's a euphemism for invading Taiwan. They keep saying it, over and over. Beyond that, there's a militarism, nationalism and irredentism that permeates Xi's leadership and the culture he has created in his country, which did not exist to the same extent under Deng. The confluence of such factors have historically been a bad omen. This does not mean that the US should start a war with China. It means the US should pivot its focus to Asia and continue the policy of containment, which is a maintenance of the peaceful status quo through a combination of sticks and carrots. It means the US should be aware that there is a rival there who may start a war on their own terms and on their own schedule when they believe they are capable of defeating the US.
    - throw__away7391 2y ago
- incahoots 2y ago
  What difference does its government make when you purposely employ collective punishment via embargo? For a country that prides itself as “democracy driven and human rights protector” it sure seems just as hostile as the supposed acting government.
reducesuffering 2y ago
While Florida was/is a swing state in US elections, whoever secures the ex-Cuban vote wins a massive amount of electoral votes. Republicans are fine jockeying against Cuba "because communism", and so the Democrats are in a pickle in that the right thing to do would be to improve relations with Cuba but it guarantees to hand Florida over to the Republicans who will then have the presidency and proceed to treat Cuba as-is. If Florida remains reliably Republican anyway, it's possible the Democrats may get enough electoral support from the rest of the country to still win future presidencies and ease up on Cuba without caring about the Florida ex-Cuban vote.
- 1123581321 2y ago
  Cubans who emigrate vote relatively conservatively, so perhaps it’s in the interest of the Democratic Party to make it more attractive to stay if most existing anti-Cuba Floridians are not marginal/swing voters.
- topkai22 2y ago
  Yeah, this is basically the answer- Cuban American lobby is solidly against the current regime. Less so than they used to be, but there are still plenty of voices strongly opposed to normalization and few strongly for it. Without a strong counter vailing lobby there is little reason for politicians to risk alienating the Cuban bloc to normalize relations with a fairly repressive government that still remains broadly anti-American and opposed to US interests.
eZpZpi 2y ago
Current position is easily explained; most active US voters are >50 yo and elect 50+ year old pols. All of those 50+ year olds were weened on “Cuba bad.” Leadership is mostly ossified and low effort adults who rarely update their opinion; they just engage in their routine, recite the spoken pageantry, idle about like brain dead tourists of reality and die down the road. Murican Civic Life has taken hold of the same biology religion stumbled upon. Time to “blink” and accept physical statistics just keeps enough stuff on shelves the majority don’t riot and mv /human/story/mode /dev/null
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  Also Florida is a large swing state, and the Cubans who have fled there are the ones who hate the current government.

seniorivn 2y ago

They are a hostile dictatorship, with zero resources but their oppressed people. Why would USA be interested in allying with them?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
atlas_hugged 2y ago
Their government is hostile like a friend’s chihuahua. It will make it known it doesn’t like you, but it ain’t going to do anything about it because it can’t. The people on the other hand are truly wonderful human beings that would love to be able to have visitors or visit other countries themselves. Who cares if some politicians feelings get hurt. People want to be free to do what they want in a supposedly free country.
- spiderice 2y ago
  What does any of what you said have to do with the US though?
- joshlemer 2y ago
  > it ain’t going to do anything about it because it can’t And, it can't because it's too poor to be able to do anything, which is partly a result of the sanctions.
- ImJamal 2y ago
  If you open up trade they will become stronger. Look at China before and after we opened up trade with them. What happens of Cuba becomes more powerful and is still hostile while being so close to the US?
energy123 2y ago
The US should oppose expansionist dictatorships that attempt to alter the status quo via forceful revisionism. That's Russia in Ukraine and China in Asia. I don't see how opposing Cuba achieves anything in the US interests.
- fjdjshsh 2y ago
  I keep seeing this "expansionist dictatorship" applied to China when the USA is discussed. The USA has invaded plenty of countries in the last few decades, has a history of colonialism (Cuba, Philippines, Puerto Rico...sure, less than some European countries, but still). Which countries has China invaded in the past few decades?
  - cubanchin 2y ago
    [dead]
  - energy123 2y ago
    Did you say "last few decades" to conveniently exclude their invasion of Vietnam? Not that it matters. Policy should not be made based on a naive extrapolation of historical track record. Culture, interests and leadership are all things that change over time. Modern China, like Russia, but unlike other autocracies such as Cuba or Saudi Arabia, is a revisionist power - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revisionist_state Their publicly broadcasted intention is to change the status quo, forcefully if needed. That's a euphemism for invading Taiwan. They keep saying it, over and over. Beyond that, there's a militarism, nationalism and irredentism that permeates Xi's leadership and the culture he has created in his country, which did not exist to the same extent under Deng. The confluence of such factors have historically been a bad omen. This does not mean that the US should start a war with China. It means the US should pivot its focus to Asia and continue the policy of containment, which is a maintenance of the peaceful status quo through a combination of sticks and carrots. It means the US should be aware that there is a rival there who may start a war on their own terms and on their own schedule when they believe they are capable of defeating the US.
  - throw__away7391 2y ago
incahoots 2y ago
What difference does its government make when you purposely employ collective punishment via embargo? For a country that prides itself as “democracy driven and human rights protector” it sure seems just as hostile as the supposed acting government.

reducesuffering 2y ago

While Florida was/is a swing state in US elections, whoever secures the ex-Cuban vote wins a massive amount of electoral votes. Republicans are fine jockeying against Cuba "because communism", and so the Democrats are in a pickle in that the right thing to do would be to improve relations with Cuba but it guarantees to hand Florida over to the Republicans who will then have the presidency and proceed to treat Cuba as-is. If Florida remains reliably Republican anyway, it's possible the Democrats may get enough electoral support from the rest of the country to still win future presidencies and ease up on Cuba without caring about the Florida ex-Cuban vote.

1123581321 2y ago
Cubans who emigrate vote relatively conservatively, so perhaps it’s in the interest of the Democratic Party to make it more attractive to stay if most existing anti-Cuba Floridians are not marginal/swing voters.
topkai22 2y ago
Yeah, this is basically the answer- Cuban American lobby is solidly against the current regime. Less so than they used to be, but there are still plenty of voices strongly opposed to normalization and few strongly for it. Without a strong counter vailing lobby there is little reason for politicians to risk alienating the Cuban bloc to normalize relations with a fairly repressive government that still remains broadly anti-American and opposed to US interests.

eZpZpi 2y ago

Current position is easily explained; most active US voters are >50 yo and elect 50+ year old pols. All of those 50+ year olds were weened on “Cuba bad.” Leadership is mostly ossified and low effort adults who rarely update their opinion; they just engage in their routine, recite the spoken pageantry, idle about like brain dead tourists of reality and die down the road. Murican Civic Life has taken hold of the same biology religion stumbled upon. Time to “blink” and accept physical statistics just keeps enough stuff on shelves the majority don’t riot and mv /human/story/mode /dev/null

bobthepanda 2y ago
Also Florida is a large swing state, and the Cubans who have fled there are the ones who hate the current government.