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So I feel I strongly fall in a poor performer interview category any time any code problems come up. How would I convince you I do not have a fraudulent resume?

So I feel I strongly fall in a poor performer interview category any time any code problems come up. How would I convince you I do not have a fraudulent resume? I study hours every day for many years now. I know many complex systems however studying algorithms bore me to tears. I've built HPC clusters, k8s clusters, Custom DL method, custom high performance file system, low level complex image analysis algorithms, firmware, UIs, custom OS work. I've done a lot of stuff because I can't help wanting to learn it. But I fail even basic leetcode questions. Am I a bad engineer? There seems to be no way for me to show my abilities to companies other than passing a leetcode but at the same time stopping learning DL methods to learn leetcode feels painful. I only want to learn the systems that create the most value for a company. I imagine if you interviewed me you would think I wrote a fraudulent resume. Not sure how I am supposed to convince someone otherwise though. Perhaps I've been dumb in not working on code that can be seen outside of a company.

itsdrewmiller 2y ago
Why are you doing all those things and what jobs are you applying for? Can you solve fizz buzz in an interview setting?
- darby_nine 2y ago
  Fizz buzz is certainly not a replacement for expertise, which is what the above commenter seems to be emphasizing. Naturally it's a "low bar" but it's an awfully low bar for a job that isn't entry level.
  - joenot443 2y ago
    That's why it's so concerning when you have people who confidently say they're great engineers who are experts in firmware, UIs, operating systems, and networking, yet when you ask them to write a 3sum or remove from a binary tree they freeze up and blame it on an unfair interview structure. I'm a bit reminded of a chef who claims he can cook pasta, sushi, and pastries, yet when asked to fry an egg says that it's not fair to expect him to do so on the spot. A chef who can't cook when needed is about as useful as an engineer who can't code when needed.
    - gedy 2y ago
      There's a common double standard here though - when I've asked backend-type devs to do a UI sample/question (these are often "full stack" roles), the leet code geniuses dismiss my concerns as that not mattering if they flop it.
- charlescurt123 2y ago
  I'm not bad at getting jobs, just feel when I am looking I believe people think I am lying about my project experience. I do these things because I see a place in the company to grow value and do it. I can write almost all basic coding and my true skill set is in custom complex DS pipelines at scale.
in_a_society 2y ago
There are people who literally say this and then you hire them -- they turn out to be complete duds. I'm genuinely curious because I'm hiring right now: by what mechanism would I discover that you have these skillsets and are good at what you do?
- mtoohig 2y ago
  Hey, what are you hiring for exactly? May I email you? My email is in my profile.
- darby_nine 2y ago
  You can pay them to demonstrate it with a take-home problem. I'm not saying this is a great solution, I'm just saying at least you'll figure out what's wrong with your interview process once the indignity of paying an incompetent person sets in.
  - geraldwhen 2y ago
    Chat gpt can solve any take home problem. You need to be on video making interactive feedback and demands to see that someone can actually write code and understands programming even a little bit.
- troad 2y ago
  What's so bad about getting a feel for someone and hiring them on a probationary basis? See how they go on discrete - but real - tasks for a week or two, and then make the call on going forward or not. It's how most hiring has always worked (and continues to work) in almost all other fields. Also, re technical questions, I don't think anyone is saying that you can't ask any technical questions whatsoever, I think the concern is about giving people abstract, theoretical CS problems that will never actually come up on the job, on the very iffy assumption that their performance while being asked to dance for a committee in high-pressure job interview situation is going to be reflective of their actual skills. (And more broadly, that a good programmer must be quick on their feet with schoolboy-style CS puzzles that are basically irrelevant to most roles.)
1123581321 2y ago
Are you self-taught? How did you write the on-the-job code? Do you do well with take-home exercises? Do you struggle with work projects that feel boring or abstract?
- charlescurt123 2y ago
  Self taught, come from EE background. Was originally building firmware and hardware for previous company while testing DS on their systems. They liked my work and I switched to DS and ended up a team lead. Honestly have never had a take home exercise but would love it if I could. I basically make my own work, if I don't get work I will build other projects for them and try to sell it to the company. I normally make good value projects and can sell it. It's how I went from hardware to DS lead of a team in a few years.
  - gedy 2y ago
    Yeah I'm EE and CompE background, and been in software for 20 years, it gets old with the 26yo "senior" dev interviewing you rolling his eyes like you are some big liar for not wizzing through his CS quiz questions (oh and for front end positions, lol). Studying EE was much harder and well-rounded engineering program compared to CS degree at the time I was in school.
  - 1123581321 2y ago
    You sound pretty cool and useful to companies that get it. My suggestion is to find ways to present on some of the things you’ve done. Then you can point to the presentation video/slides, plus you’ll probably receive inbound inquiries from companies that could actually use creative thinking and building. The take home exercise/work sample companies are out there. Here’s a list I helped contribute to. https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards

itsdrewmiller 2y ago

Why are you doing all those things and what jobs are you applying for? Can you solve fizz buzz in an interview setting?

darby_nine 2y ago
Fizz buzz is certainly not a replacement for expertise, which is what the above commenter seems to be emphasizing. Naturally it's a "low bar" but it's an awfully low bar for a job that isn't entry level.
- joenot443 2y ago
  That's why it's so concerning when you have people who confidently say they're great engineers who are experts in firmware, UIs, operating systems, and networking, yet when you ask them to write a 3sum or remove from a binary tree they freeze up and blame it on an unfair interview structure. I'm a bit reminded of a chef who claims he can cook pasta, sushi, and pastries, yet when asked to fry an egg says that it's not fair to expect him to do so on the spot. A chef who can't cook when needed is about as useful as an engineer who can't code when needed.
  - gedy 2y ago
    There's a common double standard here though - when I've asked backend-type devs to do a UI sample/question (these are often "full stack" roles), the leet code geniuses dismiss my concerns as that not mattering if they flop it.
charlescurt123 2y ago
I'm not bad at getting jobs, just feel when I am looking I believe people think I am lying about my project experience. I do these things because I see a place in the company to grow value and do it. I can write almost all basic coding and my true skill set is in custom complex DS pipelines at scale.

in_a_society 2y ago

There are people who literally say this and then you hire them -- they turn out to be complete duds. I'm genuinely curious because I'm hiring right now: by what mechanism would I discover that you have these skillsets and are good at what you do?

mtoohig 2y ago
Hey, what are you hiring for exactly? May I email you? My email is in my profile.
darby_nine 2y ago
You can pay them to demonstrate it with a take-home problem. I'm not saying this is a great solution, I'm just saying at least you'll figure out what's wrong with your interview process once the indignity of paying an incompetent person sets in.
- geraldwhen 2y ago
  Chat gpt can solve any take home problem. You need to be on video making interactive feedback and demands to see that someone can actually write code and understands programming even a little bit.
troad 2y ago
What's so bad about getting a feel for someone and hiring them on a probationary basis? See how they go on discrete - but real - tasks for a week or two, and then make the call on going forward or not. It's how most hiring has always worked (and continues to work) in almost all other fields. Also, re technical questions, I don't think anyone is saying that you can't ask any technical questions whatsoever, I think the concern is about giving people abstract, theoretical CS problems that will never actually come up on the job, on the very iffy assumption that their performance while being asked to dance for a committee in high-pressure job interview situation is going to be reflective of their actual skills. (And more broadly, that a good programmer must be quick on their feet with schoolboy-style CS puzzles that are basically irrelevant to most roles.)

1123581321 2y ago

Are you self-taught? How did you write the on-the-job code? Do you do well with take-home exercises? Do you struggle with work projects that feel boring or abstract?

charlescurt123 2y ago
Self taught, come from EE background. Was originally building firmware and hardware for previous company while testing DS on their systems. They liked my work and I switched to DS and ended up a team lead. Honestly have never had a take home exercise but would love it if I could. I basically make my own work, if I don't get work I will build other projects for them and try to sell it to the company. I normally make good value projects and can sell it. It's how I went from hardware to DS lead of a team in a few years.
- gedy 2y ago
  Yeah I'm EE and CompE background, and been in software for 20 years, it gets old with the 26yo "senior" dev interviewing you rolling his eyes like you are some big liar for not wizzing through his CS quiz questions (oh and for front end positions, lol). Studying EE was much harder and well-rounded engineering program compared to CS degree at the time I was in school.
- 1123581321 2y ago
  You sound pretty cool and useful to companies that get it. My suggestion is to find ways to present on some of the things you’ve done. Then you can point to the presentation video/slides, plus you’ll probably receive inbound inquiries from companies that could actually use creative thinking and building. The take home exercise/work sample companies are out there. Here’s a list I helped contribute to. https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards https://github.com/poteto/hiring-without-whiteboards