8 ms·

Musk Says He Will Move X and SpaceX Headquarters Out of California

33 points by ctc24 2y ago

ianburrell 2y ago
Recent post with most comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40979974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40979974
snakeyjake 2y ago
Musk pretending to care about children is like an animal hoarder claiming to care about the welfare of the 20 dogs they have crammed into a small house.
Bostonian 2y ago
I agree with Musk about the California law, but a CEO is supposed to make decisions for a company to increase shareholder value (and arguably benefit other stakeholders), not to make political points. 'His disclosures followed the move by California Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, to sign a new law Monday that aims to prevent schools from informing families if their children identify as gay or transgender. “This is the final straw,” Musk wrote on X, the social-media platform he owns. He cited the law as well as “many others that preceded it, attacking both families and companies.”'
- brodouevencode 2y ago
  > increase shareholder value Given the current CA tax situation and the fact that other companies have already led the way he's probably doing just that. Besides my understanding was that the bill was "the last straw" according to Musk.
- NotGMan 2y ago
  >> but a CEO is supposed to make decisions for a company to increase shareholder value If many tech workers will move out of crazy California then Musk will get them, increasing shareholder value.
- strangattractor 2y ago
  Elon doesn't live with most of his kids - why would he even care? His reason for moving is the taxes are less in Texas for now and the laws will turn a blind eye to environmental damage his companies do. As the population continues to grow in Tx that will change. Elon should be required to get a trolling license. Yes - I agree (I am a parent) that the law is stupid. If a kid doesn't want their parents to know something they should do it the old fashion way and lie as I did and my parents did before me etc:) My favorite thing lately is that NYT dedicated and entire article [1] to Elon goal 1 million people on Mars in the next twenty years. Tesla has been working almost that long not getting self driving cars to work. Why on Earth would anyone bother to take seriously putting 1 million people on Mars in 20 years - something several orders of magnitude more difficult. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/11/technology/elon-musk-spacex-mars.html#:~:text=Gica%20Tam-,Elon%20Musk's%20Plan%20to%20Put%20a%20Million%20Earthlings%20on%20Mars,Musk%20has%20volunteered%20his%20sperm https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/11/technology/elon-musk-spac....
  - derdi 2y ago
    > Yes - I agree (I am a parent) that the law is stupid. If a kid doesn't want their parents to know something they should do it the old fashion way and lie as I did and my parents did before me etc:) The law seems to be about making it possible for kids to lie without the school snitching on them. You should be in favor of this law, no?
    - sqeaky 2y ago
      Exactly. The law is about preventing abuse from fundamentalists towards their children. If the school must snitch and the school must report then a person who believes their kid being gay will go to hell will abuse their child until they pretend to no be gay.
    - strangattractor 2y ago
      First the :) means I was somewhat joking. Second as much as I love CA the state has become increasingly interested in creating unenforcible and intrusive laws. Although I can see a case for protecting children from abusive parents (we have laws for that already) it seems to ignore other things. Like the following: 1. AFAIK - If a kid decides to change their pronoun around their friends the school is not required to report that now and would likely not even know or care. If they do no make an official request to Teachers or staff etc then who's to know. This reminds of when fundamentalist claimed prayer was banned in schools. That has never been the case. School lead or Staff lead prayer was banned. Any child that wished to pray before eating lunch was totally free to do so. 2. It assumes that knee jerk reaction on the part of all fundamentalist parents. (feels weird for an atheist to defend fundamentalist but here we are) 3. Where's the data to back this decision up? 4. There are likely situations where it might be important for the parent to know what their child is doing. What if they are in a cult and want to change their name to unintelligible gibberish - wait Musk is probably ok with that. What if someone is convincing them to get illegal surgery?
- rjbwork 2y ago
  >“This is the final straw,” Musk wrote on X, the social-media platform he owns. He cited the law as well as “many others that preceded it, attacking both families and companies.”' Man who hates that his trans child hates him angry that the government isn't forcing trans children to tell their hateful parents they're trans. If your children aren't comfortable telling you things like this, that's a failure of you as a parent. I'm not going to pretend there isn't social contagion or a bunch of teenagers questioning things out of peer pressure or that actual rates of transness are much lower than their visibility or a million other things. What I am saying is that if your kids are not comfortable talking to you about serious topics like this, you've failed as a parent. Your kids should know you'll love them no matter what and will support them in trying to build a happy life for themselves. My friend's child believes they are trans, and while the parents are skeptical, there was never any doubt in that kids mind that their parents should know what they are going through and feeling or that they would love them no matter what.
  - falleng0d 2y ago
    > Man who hates that his trans child hates him angry These are very strong accusations. Do you have a reference or is this just an emotional response?
    - rjbwork 2y ago
      I know that his trans child won't speak to him - I surmise it indicates hate, but perhaps not. Usually when people say things like "this is the final straw" it indicates anger. You can read more on the former by searching "Xavier Musk" and/or "Vivian Musk".
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Isn't there an inversion taking place in that logic. It stands that she might hate him, but not that he hates her.
        defrost 2y ago
- sunshowers 2y ago
  To be clear, the main animating force in Elon's life over the last few years is his oldest coming out as trans. That's why he bought Twitter and turned it into a nonstop Klan rally, that's why he supports Trump, that's why he opposes this law. His first-born is trans.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    > His first-born is trans. Apropos of the rest of your point, his first-born died of SIDS at 10 weeks.
    - sunshowers 2y ago
      Ah, I wasn't aware. Sorry to hear that.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    My understanding is that it is less about them coming out as trans, but they fact that they are a socialist and hate his guts.
    - sunshowers 2y ago
      No, it was about her coming out as trans. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/elon-musk-transgender-daughter-vivian-wilson-interview-rcna163665 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/elon-musk-transgender... > Musk told Peterson that Wilson’s gender transition has been the motivation for his push into conservative politics.
      - goodhood 2y ago
        [flagged]
- aaron695 2y ago
  [dead]
- greentxt 2y ago
  Isn't the legislative climate and the perceived wisdom of a state's political leadership something that might reasonably impact shareholder value? Can making political points ever increase shareholder value in and of itself? Isn't that sort of the premise of ESG?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
claudiulodro 2y ago
Doesn't X have a pretty strict RTO policy? Are they making all of the employees move?
- falleng0d 2y ago
  I wonder if there is a chance employees would actually be in favor of that. Considering that the high taxes also affects them and there is also the increasing criminality problem
  - coolbreezetft24 2y ago
    Seems like this would be disruptive to lot of people who would have to uproot their families and move to a new state to keep their job? Kids would have to change schools, spouses get new jobs. Leave neighbors/friends/families. All because of one persons culture war grievances
  - bsder 2y ago
    "High California taxes" is a meme. However, the reality is that if you own a home, taxation in Texas may be even worse than California.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      hard to believe that is true if you adjust for the cost of housing.
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      Yea, it's a meme but let's not exaggerate. When you consider total[1] tax burden, including property tax, income tax, sales and other taxes, California is high, but not the highest, and Texas is low but not the lowest. There are many other states that also have lower taxes than California that don't have the massive cultural downsides of Texas. Honestly, if I were planning to move out of California (I probably never will) and wanted to pick a state to live in, there are a lot of factors that would come into play and taxes are probably not even top 5. It's just not that big a deal. 1: https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494 https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...
guywithahat 2y ago
It does seem a bit weird to me that SpaceX was never based out of Houston and has such a small presence. They have the NASA base there and scores of private space companies, and the lack of zoning means the housing problem is permanently fixed (at least until someone zones the city). Moving Starlink production to Austin just feels like moving to a worse but slightly cheaper San Francisco.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Makes sense that SpaceX was in LA because it is one of the historic rocket design hubs, if not the rocket design capital of the world.
  - avmich 2y ago
    > the rocket design capital of the world Pretty hard to compete with Moscow, don't you think?
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Maybe it was competition in the 1980's with the soviets trailing, but with the fall of the USSR in 91' the competition was over. Through the 90's and 2000's NASA and the DoD kept pushing new exploratory technology and increasingly advanced and technical engine designs. SpaceX was notorious for eschewing experienced rocket scientists and grinding out work from novice engineers, but I think it is fair to say they still benefited from the pool of experience they did tap into.
      - avmich 2y ago
        I'm afraid you underestimate Moscow space cluster. In '90s, even in '00s their rocket engines - not quite from Moscow, a few kilometers away, from Khimki - remained world class. Realized project from, among others, Korolyov, less than an hour of drive from Moscow - Sea Launch, not realized but seriously pushed - Kliper. In 80's they might be unquestioned champions, not trailing - but I don't know your criteria, it's just what I see. Moscow had Proton-making factory, two significant space-relevant universities - MAI and MGTU, and several strong technical universities also related to space industry - MGU, MFTI, MEI... And there are others. So, in terms of being "the rocket design capital of the world", if you consider "rocket" to mean "space projects", Moscow with immediate neighboring region - not Soviets - was until recently (2008?.. later?..) pretty competitive. What LA region has of similar effects?
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
Some previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40980944 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40980944 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40980562 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40980562 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40979974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40979974
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
https://archive.ph/BBgzu https://archive.ph/BBgzu

33 points by ctc24 2y ago

Recent post with most comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40979974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40979974

snakeyjake 2y ago

Musk pretending to care about children is like an animal hoarder claiming to care about the welfare of the 20 dogs they have crammed into a small house.

Bostonian 2y ago

I agree with Musk about the California law, but a CEO is supposed to make decisions for a company to increase shareholder value (and arguably benefit other stakeholders), not to make political points. 'His disclosures followed the move by California Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, to sign a new law Monday that aims to prevent schools from informing families if their children identify as gay or transgender. “This is the final straw,” Musk wrote on X, the social-media platform he owns. He cited the law as well as “many others that preceded it, attacking both families and companies.”'

brodouevencode 2y ago
> increase shareholder value Given the current CA tax situation and the fact that other companies have already led the way he's probably doing just that. Besides my understanding was that the bill was "the last straw" according to Musk.
NotGMan 2y ago
>> but a CEO is supposed to make decisions for a company to increase shareholder value If many tech workers will move out of crazy California then Musk will get them, increasing shareholder value.
strangattractor 2y ago
Elon doesn't live with most of his kids - why would he even care? His reason for moving is the taxes are less in Texas for now and the laws will turn a blind eye to environmental damage his companies do. As the population continues to grow in Tx that will change. Elon should be required to get a trolling license. Yes - I agree (I am a parent) that the law is stupid. If a kid doesn't want their parents to know something they should do it the old fashion way and lie as I did and my parents did before me etc:) My favorite thing lately is that NYT dedicated and entire article [1] to Elon goal 1 million people on Mars in the next twenty years. Tesla has been working almost that long not getting self driving cars to work. Why on Earth would anyone bother to take seriously putting 1 million people on Mars in 20 years - something several orders of magnitude more difficult. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/11/technology/elon-musk-spacex-mars.html#:~:text=Gica%20Tam-,Elon%20Musk's%20Plan%20to%20Put%20a%20Million%20Earthlings%20on%20Mars,Musk%20has%20volunteered%20his%20sperm https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/11/technology/elon-musk-spac....
- derdi 2y ago
  > Yes - I agree (I am a parent) that the law is stupid. If a kid doesn't want their parents to know something they should do it the old fashion way and lie as I did and my parents did before me etc:) The law seems to be about making it possible for kids to lie without the school snitching on them. You should be in favor of this law, no?
  - sqeaky 2y ago
    Exactly. The law is about preventing abuse from fundamentalists towards their children. If the school must snitch and the school must report then a person who believes their kid being gay will go to hell will abuse their child until they pretend to no be gay.
  - strangattractor 2y ago
    First the :) means I was somewhat joking. Second as much as I love CA the state has become increasingly interested in creating unenforcible and intrusive laws. Although I can see a case for protecting children from abusive parents (we have laws for that already) it seems to ignore other things. Like the following: 1. AFAIK - If a kid decides to change their pronoun around their friends the school is not required to report that now and would likely not even know or care. If they do no make an official request to Teachers or staff etc then who's to know. This reminds of when fundamentalist claimed prayer was banned in schools. That has never been the case. School lead or Staff lead prayer was banned. Any child that wished to pray before eating lunch was totally free to do so. 2. It assumes that knee jerk reaction on the part of all fundamentalist parents. (feels weird for an atheist to defend fundamentalist but here we are) 3. Where's the data to back this decision up? 4. There are likely situations where it might be important for the parent to know what their child is doing. What if they are in a cult and want to change their name to unintelligible gibberish - wait Musk is probably ok with that. What if someone is convincing them to get illegal surgery?
rjbwork 2y ago
>“This is the final straw,” Musk wrote on X, the social-media platform he owns. He cited the law as well as “many others that preceded it, attacking both families and companies.”' Man who hates that his trans child hates him angry that the government isn't forcing trans children to tell their hateful parents they're trans. If your children aren't comfortable telling you things like this, that's a failure of you as a parent. I'm not going to pretend there isn't social contagion or a bunch of teenagers questioning things out of peer pressure or that actual rates of transness are much lower than their visibility or a million other things. What I am saying is that if your kids are not comfortable talking to you about serious topics like this, you've failed as a parent. Your kids should know you'll love them no matter what and will support them in trying to build a happy life for themselves. My friend's child believes they are trans, and while the parents are skeptical, there was never any doubt in that kids mind that their parents should know what they are going through and feeling or that they would love them no matter what.
- falleng0d 2y ago
  > Man who hates that his trans child hates him angry These are very strong accusations. Do you have a reference or is this just an emotional response?
  - rjbwork 2y ago
    I know that his trans child won't speak to him - I surmise it indicates hate, but perhaps not. Usually when people say things like "this is the final straw" it indicates anger. You can read more on the former by searching "Xavier Musk" and/or "Vivian Musk".
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Isn't there an inversion taking place in that logic. It stands that she might hate him, but not that he hates her.
      - defrost 2y ago
sunshowers 2y ago
To be clear, the main animating force in Elon's life over the last few years is his oldest coming out as trans. That's why he bought Twitter and turned it into a nonstop Klan rally, that's why he supports Trump, that's why he opposes this law. His first-born is trans.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  > His first-born is trans. Apropos of the rest of your point, his first-born died of SIDS at 10 weeks.
  - sunshowers 2y ago
    Ah, I wasn't aware. Sorry to hear that.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  My understanding is that it is less about them coming out as trans, but they fact that they are a socialist and hate his guts.
  - sunshowers 2y ago
    No, it was about her coming out as trans. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/elon-musk-transgender-daughter-vivian-wilson-interview-rcna163665 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/elon-musk-transgender... > Musk told Peterson that Wilson’s gender transition has been the motivation for his push into conservative politics.
    - goodhood 2y ago
      [flagged]
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
greentxt 2y ago
Isn't the legislative climate and the perceived wisdom of a state's political leadership something that might reasonably impact shareholder value? Can making political points ever increase shareholder value in and of itself? Isn't that sort of the premise of ESG?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

claudiulodro 2y ago

Doesn't X have a pretty strict RTO policy? Are they making all of the employees move?

falleng0d 2y ago
I wonder if there is a chance employees would actually be in favor of that. Considering that the high taxes also affects them and there is also the increasing criminality problem
- coolbreezetft24 2y ago
  Seems like this would be disruptive to lot of people who would have to uproot their families and move to a new state to keep their job? Kids would have to change schools, spouses get new jobs. Leave neighbors/friends/families. All because of one persons culture war grievances
- bsder 2y ago
  "High California taxes" is a meme. However, the reality is that if you own a home, taxation in Texas may be even worse than California.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    hard to believe that is true if you adjust for the cost of housing.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Yea, it's a meme but let's not exaggerate. When you consider total[1] tax burden, including property tax, income tax, sales and other taxes, California is high, but not the highest, and Texas is low but not the lowest. There are many other states that also have lower taxes than California that don't have the massive cultural downsides of Texas. Honestly, if I were planning to move out of California (I probably never will) and wanted to pick a state to live in, there are a lot of factors that would come into play and taxes are probably not even top 5. It's just not that big a deal. 1: https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494 https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...

guywithahat 2y ago

It does seem a bit weird to me that SpaceX was never based out of Houston and has such a small presence. They have the NASA base there and scores of private space companies, and the lack of zoning means the housing problem is permanently fixed (at least until someone zones the city). Moving Starlink production to Austin just feels like moving to a worse but slightly cheaper San Francisco.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
Makes sense that SpaceX was in LA because it is one of the historic rocket design hubs, if not the rocket design capital of the world.
- avmich 2y ago
  > the rocket design capital of the world Pretty hard to compete with Moscow, don't you think?
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Maybe it was competition in the 1980's with the soviets trailing, but with the fall of the USSR in 91' the competition was over. Through the 90's and 2000's NASA and the DoD kept pushing new exploratory technology and increasingly advanced and technical engine designs. SpaceX was notorious for eschewing experienced rocket scientists and grinding out work from novice engineers, but I think it is fair to say they still benefited from the pool of experience they did tap into.
    - avmich 2y ago
      I'm afraid you underestimate Moscow space cluster. In '90s, even in '00s their rocket engines - not quite from Moscow, a few kilometers away, from Khimki - remained world class. Realized project from, among others, Korolyov, less than an hour of drive from Moscow - Sea Launch, not realized but seriously pushed - Kliper. In 80's they might be unquestioned champions, not trailing - but I don't know your criteria, it's just what I see. Moscow had Proton-making factory, two significant space-relevant universities - MAI and MGTU, and several strong technical universities also related to space industry - MGU, MFTI, MEI... And there are others. So, in terms of being "the rocket design capital of the world", if you consider "rocket" to mean "space projects", Moscow with immediate neighboring region - not Soviets - was until recently (2008?.. later?..) pretty competitive. What LA region has of similar effects?

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

Some previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40980944 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40980944 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40980562 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40980562 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40979974 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40979974

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

https://archive.ph/BBgzu https://archive.ph/BBgzu