7 ms·

Consumer motherboards haven't had gpus for a while now (IPMI usually comes with one, so servers do), they're built in to the CPU (if they are, not all cpus have

Consumer motherboards haven't had gpus for a while now (IPMI usually comes with one, so servers do), they're built in to the CPU (if they are, not all cpus have them). These can't usually be easily allocated to a vm.

redox99 2y ago
He's saying the opposite: Host has integrated graphics, VM has dedicated GPU.
- sqeaky 2y ago
  How can the host have integrated graphics, if integrated graphics don't exist? Per, Korhojoa, and my personal experience plenty of desktop CPUs simply don't have integrated GPUs. Consumer mainboards simply don't come with them at all. Consider my previous workstation CPU, top of the line a few years ago and no iGPU: https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/5000-series/amd-ryzen-9-5950x.html https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/50... Integrated GPUs is a feature of server mainboards so that there is something to display with for troubleshooting, but not on any retail mainboards I am aware of. It is a feature of some consumer grade GPUs designed for either budget or low-power gaming. It simply doesn't exist on all CPUs, consider the AMD 5600, 5600x and 5600g, last gen mid-range CPUs adequate for gaming and the x had a little more clock speed, and the g had an iGPU.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    > and the g had an iGPU. So you are contradicting yourself.
    - sqeaky 2y ago
      This is a fundamentally dishonest take. I provided three specific CPUs that varied by just the letter at the end where some had an iGPU and some didn't. I am being honest that some have it but that it isn't ubiquitous.
      - prmoustache 2y ago
        Well when you buy a desktop computer in 2024 their are usually 4 main ways: - buying a ready made computer from a brand --> always come with an integrated GPU. Some will be even such a small form factor you have to use an external thunderbolt connected GPU if you want to use one. - you build your computer yourself from parts --> you decide your motherboard and CPU, if VM passthrough is something you want to do, you just buy the parts that fits your use case - you buy a configurable prebuilt computer from an online or local vendor --> you just have to choose the right option on the configuration tool so that you get a motherboard/cpu that offers integrated GPU. - you buy second hand and you don't have an igpu: you buy the cheapest gpu available, usually around 10 to 25$ and you have your second GPU that the host can use. Even when you are using laptop, having 2 GPUs is really not complicated in 2024, especially with thunderbolt external GPU cases/adapters. Bottom line: you only have one GPU if you actively choose not to have 2.
        michaelmrose 2y ago
        The average PC is already a trade of that costs the average user around $800 and near 2/3 would need a substantial RAM upgrade a new GPU or both to make gaming through VM passthrough a reality. Most people aren't looking to buy new hardware and learn new tech to game. It sounds like a useful toy for those whom already enjoy playing with their computer as much as playing with the game. That said wouldn't limiting the host to integrated graphics (or whatever you get for $25) be a substantial limitation compared to using wine/proton or dual booting?
        prmoustache 2y ago
        > Most people aren't looking to buy new hardware and learn new tech to game. Most people don't play game. Most people that play game that isn't solitary or a web game just buy a playstation, xbox or Switch. Only a relatively small fraction of people playing AAA games use computer for that. The most hardcore one and the most willing to spend money on a game Rig. And I am pretty sure most of them aren't the least interested in dual boot because they would have a desktop gaming rig and a laptop for everything else anyway. Only a tiny fraction of gamers is probably interested in dual booting. You are part of that tiny group. Fine. The nmbl tool presented in this conference do not prevent dual booting anyway so I am not even sure why people act like they should be offended because grub might be replaced someday by something else with more capabilities.
  - redox99 2y ago
    Most AM5 CPUs have integrated graphics. It's also quite common on Intel.
prmoustache 2y ago
I clicked randomly on a number of motherboards sold by the 2 brands that came to my mind, Asrock and Gigabyte, and all of them advertised hdmi and usb-c graphics output so I am surprised by your declaration that consumer motherboards don't have GPU. If I am not mistaken on AMD Ryzen architecture it comes down to choosing a CPU with a G or 3D suffix which states they have an integrated GPU.
- eyeris 2y ago
  It really still is the case that most if not all consumer motherboards don’t have built in graphics. For the most part especially on the intel side, they’ve relied on the iGPU in the CPU for output for probably 10 years now
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    Well my case still stand that you still have an integrated graphics, if not by the motherboard but the GPU, that you can use on the host while you dedicate a discrete card for VM passthrough.
- happycube 2y ago
  Desktop Ryzen 4's and newer have a very small iGPU that's just enough to put up a desktop (and presumably a framebuffer fast enough to feed a discrete card's output into)

redox99 2y ago

He's saying the opposite: Host has integrated graphics, VM has dedicated GPU.

sqeaky 2y ago
How can the host have integrated graphics, if integrated graphics don't exist? Per, Korhojoa, and my personal experience plenty of desktop CPUs simply don't have integrated GPUs. Consumer mainboards simply don't come with them at all. Consider my previous workstation CPU, top of the line a few years ago and no iGPU: https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/5000-series/amd-ryzen-9-5950x.html https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/50... Integrated GPUs is a feature of server mainboards so that there is something to display with for troubleshooting, but not on any retail mainboards I am aware of. It is a feature of some consumer grade GPUs designed for either budget or low-power gaming. It simply doesn't exist on all CPUs, consider the AMD 5600, 5600x and 5600g, last gen mid-range CPUs adequate for gaming and the x had a little more clock speed, and the g had an iGPU.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- prmoustache 2y ago
  > and the g had an iGPU. So you are contradicting yourself.
  - sqeaky 2y ago
    This is a fundamentally dishonest take. I provided three specific CPUs that varied by just the letter at the end where some had an iGPU and some didn't. I am being honest that some have it but that it isn't ubiquitous.
    - prmoustache 2y ago
      Well when you buy a desktop computer in 2024 their are usually 4 main ways: - buying a ready made computer from a brand --> always come with an integrated GPU. Some will be even such a small form factor you have to use an external thunderbolt connected GPU if you want to use one. - you build your computer yourself from parts --> you decide your motherboard and CPU, if VM passthrough is something you want to do, you just buy the parts that fits your use case - you buy a configurable prebuilt computer from an online or local vendor --> you just have to choose the right option on the configuration tool so that you get a motherboard/cpu that offers integrated GPU. - you buy second hand and you don't have an igpu: you buy the cheapest gpu available, usually around 10 to 25$ and you have your second GPU that the host can use. Even when you are using laptop, having 2 GPUs is really not complicated in 2024, especially with thunderbolt external GPU cases/adapters. Bottom line: you only have one GPU if you actively choose not to have 2.
      - michaelmrose 2y ago
        The average PC is already a trade of that costs the average user around $800 and near 2/3 would need a substantial RAM upgrade a new GPU or both to make gaming through VM passthrough a reality. Most people aren't looking to buy new hardware and learn new tech to game. It sounds like a useful toy for those whom already enjoy playing with their computer as much as playing with the game. That said wouldn't limiting the host to integrated graphics (or whatever you get for $25) be a substantial limitation compared to using wine/proton or dual booting?
        prmoustache 2y ago
        > Most people aren't looking to buy new hardware and learn new tech to game. Most people don't play game. Most people that play game that isn't solitary or a web game just buy a playstation, xbox or Switch. Only a relatively small fraction of people playing AAA games use computer for that. The most hardcore one and the most willing to spend money on a game Rig. And I am pretty sure most of them aren't the least interested in dual boot because they would have a desktop gaming rig and a laptop for everything else anyway. Only a tiny fraction of gamers is probably interested in dual booting. You are part of that tiny group. Fine. The nmbl tool presented in this conference do not prevent dual booting anyway so I am not even sure why people act like they should be offended because grub might be replaced someday by something else with more capabilities.
- redox99 2y ago
  Most AM5 CPUs have integrated graphics. It's also quite common on Intel.

prmoustache 2y ago

I clicked randomly on a number of motherboards sold by the 2 brands that came to my mind, Asrock and Gigabyte, and all of them advertised hdmi and usb-c graphics output so I am surprised by your declaration that consumer motherboards don't have GPU. If I am not mistaken on AMD Ryzen architecture it comes down to choosing a CPU with a G or 3D suffix which states they have an integrated GPU.

eyeris 2y ago
It really still is the case that most if not all consumer motherboards don’t have built in graphics. For the most part especially on the intel side, they’ve relied on the iGPU in the CPU for output for probably 10 years now
- prmoustache 2y ago
  Well my case still stand that you still have an integrated graphics, if not by the motherboard but the GPU, that you can use on the host while you dedicate a discrete card for VM passthrough.
happycube 2y ago
Desktop Ryzen 4's and newer have a very small iGPU that's just enough to put up a desktop (and presumably a framebuffer fast enough to feed a discrete card's output into)