4 ms·

I used a lot of solvers in the early 2000s in my Operations Research master after my econometrics study. While now working on software (web) that uses python I’

I used a lot of solvers in the early 2000s in my Operations Research master after my econometrics study. While now working on software (web) that uses python I’m thrilled to see these deep dives on this subject! I love the subject and reading this brought back a lot of memories. Also the realization that translating constraints to a model (variables, structure etc) is 90% of the work and the most difficult part.

Murky3515 2y ago
>the realization that translating constraints to a model (variables, structure etc) is 90% of the work and the most difficult part. LLMs can help a lot there. I've been wanting to write an LLM => Constraint model adapter that does it for you. It's such low hanging fruit, I wonder if anyone else would benefit from it though.
- bobim 2y ago
  I think that I would. Using natural language to describe the problem and constraints would be much better than figuring out mid project that the variable structure I've chosen does not allow to express a particular constraint. Defining the right structure is just Art at this point.
- flats 2y ago
  They're already very good at it—I myself have been using OR-Tools's CP-SAT solver for a large bin packing problem at work (via https://github.com/ankane/or-tools-ruby https://github.com/ankane/or-tools-ruby) & Chat-GPT was a big help working out the details of some of the constraints and objectives.
- ayhanfuat 2y ago
  It is indeed a very good fit. There is some cool research about it: https://github.com/skadio/ner4opt https://github.com/skadio/ner4opt
- tannhaeuser 2y ago
  Indeed, it seems like an obvious thing to do. But just as you noted, it's not very clear LLMs really can improve over Prolog in terms of expressiveness and practicality given that Prolog already was designed for natural language parsing and is a concise formalism based on predicate logic (and ultimately propositional and first order logic) with constraint domain theory embeddings such as for arithmetic. Prolog syntax is also the starting point for most constraint solvers, and Prolog evaluation is also often referred to as basis for generalization into constraint solving. Though I'm not sure this generalization bears much value tbh when the break-through successes in constraint solving were particular domain-specific techniques (SAT solvers, interval propagation, arc consisteny/finite domain propagation, etc).
pjot 2y ago
I used program called GAMS in mine. Its syntax structure is totally free form! https://www.gams.com/latest/docs/UG_GAMSPrograms.html#UG_GAMSPrograms_FormatOfGAMSInput https://www.gams.com/latest/docs/UG_GAMSPrograms.html#UG_GAM...
- mncharity 2y ago
  I'm intrigued by bits like Outside Margin Comments[1] - `$onMargin minCol 20 maxCol 45` - text before column 20 and after column 45 is treated as a comment - 1970s. [1] https://www.gams.com/latest/docs/UG_GAMSPrograms.html#UG_GAMSPrograms_CommentsOutsideMargin https://www.gams.com/latest/docs/UG_GAMSPrograms.html#UG_GAM...
- dualogy 2y ago
  Another "friendly syntax, multi-solver" approach is MiniZinc.org.
akutlay 2y ago
I would say the most difficult part is to run it in production with minimal issues. Scaling them and making them robust to changes in data takes a long time.

Murky3515 2y ago

>the realization that translating constraints to a model (variables, structure etc) is 90% of the work and the most difficult part. LLMs can help a lot there. I've been wanting to write an LLM => Constraint model adapter that does it for you. It's such low hanging fruit, I wonder if anyone else would benefit from it though.

bobim 2y ago
I think that I would. Using natural language to describe the problem and constraints would be much better than figuring out mid project that the variable structure I've chosen does not allow to express a particular constraint. Defining the right structure is just Art at this point.
flats 2y ago
They're already very good at it—I myself have been using OR-Tools's CP-SAT solver for a large bin packing problem at work (via https://github.com/ankane/or-tools-ruby https://github.com/ankane/or-tools-ruby) & Chat-GPT was a big help working out the details of some of the constraints and objectives.
ayhanfuat 2y ago
It is indeed a very good fit. There is some cool research about it: https://github.com/skadio/ner4opt https://github.com/skadio/ner4opt
tannhaeuser 2y ago
Indeed, it seems like an obvious thing to do. But just as you noted, it's not very clear LLMs really can improve over Prolog in terms of expressiveness and practicality given that Prolog already was designed for natural language parsing and is a concise formalism based on predicate logic (and ultimately propositional and first order logic) with constraint domain theory embeddings such as for arithmetic. Prolog syntax is also the starting point for most constraint solvers, and Prolog evaluation is also often referred to as basis for generalization into constraint solving. Though I'm not sure this generalization bears much value tbh when the break-through successes in constraint solving were particular domain-specific techniques (SAT solvers, interval propagation, arc consisteny/finite domain propagation, etc).

pjot 2y ago

I used program called GAMS in mine. Its syntax structure is totally free form! https://www.gams.com/latest/docs/UG_GAMSPrograms.html#UG_GAMSPrograms_FormatOfGAMSInput https://www.gams.com/latest/docs/UG_GAMSPrograms.html#UG_GAM...

mncharity 2y ago
I'm intrigued by bits like Outside Margin Comments[1] - `$onMargin minCol 20 maxCol 45` - text before column 20 and after column 45 is treated as a comment - 1970s. [1] https://www.gams.com/latest/docs/UG_GAMSPrograms.html#UG_GAMSPrograms_CommentsOutsideMargin https://www.gams.com/latest/docs/UG_GAMSPrograms.html#UG_GAM...
dualogy 2y ago
Another "friendly syntax, multi-solver" approach is MiniZinc.org.

akutlay 2y ago

I would say the most difficult part is to run it in production with minimal issues. Scaling them and making them robust to changes in data takes a long time.