7 ms·

Oklahoma orders schools to teach Bible 'immediately'

35 points by codezero 2y ago

xenospn 2y ago
Such a huge waste of time and resources that could be better used to make students actually smarter and better prepared for their lives as adults. This is just hollow virtue signaling that will inevitably be thrown out by the Supreme Court after wasting millions of dollars for nothing.
- Wowfunhappy 2y ago
  ...I'm not entirely convinced the current Supreme Court will throw this out.
  - xenospn 2y ago
    You have a point.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Alas, it's a little worse than "nothing" that since: 1. Perpetrators like Ryan Walters will benefit by getting/keeping political appointments under Republican governors like Kevin Stitt. 2. Perpetrators will personally benefit by getting more votes in the next Republican primary they run in. 3. Their supporters will be pleased because the cruelty is the point.
- ttyprintk 2y ago
  That could happen and simultaneously teach kids a lifelong satisfying understanding of Jesus and Christianity. The arrest of a money-changing protester by the Roman administration. Commonplace method and frequency of capital punishment. A radical who read, for example, Leviticus and his own handpicked selected emphasized passages persist into the New Testament; ready for a mildly rebellious teen to apply His teachings directly to the chafing hypocrisy of PTA meetings, school boards, college essays, and any place we as adults expected polite secular obedience but instead deserve to get our faces rubbed into the risky business of actually teaching Christ.
squircle 2y ago
I enjoyed reading the bible when I was a kid. It seemed very real and somehow approachable. Christianty, I think, is a very human-scale religion. However, note the "teach" in the headline--as if education should be little more than an education beaten into you. Sure, this will help anyone succeed (just follow the asshole in front of you.) Perhaps they should consider teaching all religions? Or, rather, give students access to all religious texts and teach them about hermeneutics and comparative studies.
- listless 2y ago
  It’s odd how we glorify religion in this country, and then are immediately horrified when it rears its head in certain places. We seem conflicted. Is it a good thing, or a bad thing? Or maybe just the “right one” is a good thing? Full disclosure: I consider it a good thing.
  - dotcoma 2y ago
    ‘Our’ religion, good. Others’ religion, bad. It’s so simple, really ;)
- wkat4242 2y ago
  I understand you see value in it. But that may differ. I know I would have hated being forced to read the bible as a child. Even though I was baptized I very quickly became a student of science and I rejected religion as soon as I could talk. I was very opinionated in my school days. Luckily nobody tried to teach it to me or it would have been war >:] In fact my school tried to put me in the optional Latin class because I was a really good student and "important people know Latin" and I made myself completely impossible there because I didn't see the point in learning a dead language. I look to the future not the past. That didn't last long and after that I was a teacher's pet again, they just had to learn their lesson that no means no. Heheh Ps they were right in the end and Latin would have been handy because now I struggle with Latin based languages. But oh well. Standing up for what you think is right is important and I would do it again :)
  - 2y ago
mbfg 2y ago
[flagged]
wkat4242 2y ago
Isn't this the US, the country of freedom of things like religion? Just asking for a friend.
- dotcoma 2y ago
  Not at all. You have freedom of religion but not freedom from religion. It’s ok whatever god you worship, but only as long as you worship one.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    I assume you're joking but just in case you're not.. Really? I thought atheism was a perfectly fine option under "freedom of religion" too. I guess it's ingrained in some parts of society. I would for example not be happy to swear on the bible. But in Holland we have this alternative thing for atheists where we have to swear to the king or something. I don't recognise our monarchy either but whatever :) it feels more acceptable because everyone can see that that's just a made up concept (I view a constitutional monarchy as a glorification of previous dictatorship)
    - dotcoma 2y ago
      If you are asking me, no, I am not joking. Did the US ever have an atheist president? There you go. I, too, would rather swear on the monarchy (or on the republic) than on the Bible, but I am not sure they have that option in the US.
    - drewcoo 2y ago
      There's no atheism allowed in 12 step programs . . .
  - dragonwriter 2y ago
    Under the Constitution, you have both freedom of religiois exercise and freedom from religious establishment, as well as a freedom from religious tests for public office. The last two preclude institutionalization of religion with state mandate, even something as broad as the generic theism you suggest.
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
It's becoming ever more silly & pointless to say as the travesty & ridiculous overreach (of these extremist theocratic/un-democratic) radicals keeps spreading, but like, low key thank you for showing us who you are, for so visibly not caring at all about anyone but yourselves & your particular & strange delusions. I hope some day we survive (as a free society) to calmer chiller times, and look back & reflect. It feels like theres a total lack of moderation, that this extremism has been growing, and I hope we can survive & not be corralled into a top-down overbearing government that forces a select peoples chosen way of life on everyone.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  >I hope we can survive & not be corralled into a top-down overbearing government that forces a select peoples chosen way of life on everyone. When you have a country where too many groups of people have fundamental disagreements on basic issues, I think it's probably inevitable that one of two possible outcomes happens: the country breaks apart, or an authoritarian government takes over.
  - fellowniusmonk 2y ago
    That is the Falsist of False Dichotomies. You really think there are only two possible outcomes? And those are the two you've chosen? Unreal.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      Can you point to many historical examples of countries where different groups inside were actively antagonistic towards each other, and the country wasn't authoritarian?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- fellowniusmonk 2y ago
  This is what decadent, weak, unprincipled governance looks like. According to USNews OK is 49th in education, I presume that this decision is just like so many other cultural death spirals where the people have now become so ignorant from decades of substandard educational practices that they can no longer reason through what foundations are required for success in the first place. Brain drain is very real.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
bawolff 2y ago
The bible as a document is really fascinating from an historical & mythological perspective. Too bad that is probably not what is meant.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  >The bible as a document is really fascinating from an historical & mythological perspective. It is? I always considered the mythology rather boring. The Greek and Norse mythologies always seemed much more interesting and entertaining to me.
  - bawolff 2y ago
    I think the part i find interesting is it seems like we have a better picture of how the mythology shifted over time and was interpreted by different groups than we do with greek and norse mythology. So not just the stories themselves but how they were adapted in different contexts. I dont actually know that much about the subject. Recently this video on youtube popped up for me about early history of what would later become the abrahamic religions, and i was just kind of fascinated by it https://youtu.be/mdKst8zeh-U?si=nhdcZJAnQlRPQVv6 https://youtu.be/mdKst8zeh-U?si=nhdcZJAnQlRPQVv6
  - sologoub 2y ago
    From a scientific perspective, the text is very rich and shows somewhat chronological evolution of beliefs and society systems. Coupled with responses to catastrophic events/influences, like the Babylonian captivity influencing what heaven and hell were understood to be, there’s a lot to study/research. There are many university courses on the subject that are not a religious class.
  - krapp 2y ago
    A lot of of the interesting mythology was left out of the Bible, unfortunately.
  - drewcoo 2y ago
    This atheist says the Song of Solomon is not at all boring.
yedava 2y ago
Up next - evolution is just a "theory", like intelligent design.
megamike 2y ago
I have found the bible they are going to teach https://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Bible-Translation-Commentary-Three/dp/0393292495 https://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Bible-Translation-Commentary-T...
- err4nt 2y ago
  Is it? I hope so, because this is a fantastic translation, it preserves as much of the wordplay from the hebrew, and whatever is not able to be brought through in the translation is well-annotated in the notes below.
  - ttyprintk 2y ago
    Completely agree. There really is not a better one. But, a student bringing in the Greek Old Testament familiar to Paul should be able to participate. And Jewish kids. I find no value in segregating kids into different groups like the way sex ed.
Duanemclemore 2y ago
Cool cool. So we can expect forthwith the hasty inclusion of Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Paine, Voltaire, Spinoza, Montesquieu, Rousseau, Seneca, Cato, et al? I mean... those were all more plainly and specifically influential on the founders than the Christian Bible. I'd be interested to hear specifically what passages they will incorporate and on what basis of relevance to the history of the founding of the US these are chosen, and how they plan to not get lost in the weeds of religious doctrine. Or is this just another cheap ploy to waste taxpayer money losing another lawsuit to the Satanic Temple?
MissTake 2y ago
This is hot on the heels of this man loosing one case against the Oklahoma Supreme Court. Ryan Walters recently lost when the highest court in the State ruled that it’s unconstitutional to create a state funded religious charter school. Not one to obey the law this one - it seems to be the thing with these Christian Nationalists, to embrace the courts when they rule in their favor, then complain, bitch and invariably then ignore when the courts rule against them. Apparently he saw what Louisiana did, then looked around for someone to hold his beer…
xnx 2y ago
Will Christian mythology be taught alongside Greek, Roman, Norse, etc.?
- dang 2y ago
  Please don't start religious flamewars on HN*. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html * yes, even in a religiously flammable thread. Especially then, in fact—note this guideline: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."
deepfriedchokes 2y ago
I look forward to the Satanic Temple’s predictable response to this.

35 points by codezero 2y ago

Such a huge waste of time and resources that could be better used to make students actually smarter and better prepared for their lives as adults. This is just hollow virtue signaling that will inevitably be thrown out by the Supreme Court after wasting millions of dollars for nothing.

Wowfunhappy 2y ago
...I'm not entirely convinced the current Supreme Court will throw this out.
- xenospn 2y ago
  You have a point.
Terr_ 2y ago
Alas, it's a little worse than "nothing" that since: 1. Perpetrators like Ryan Walters will benefit by getting/keeping political appointments under Republican governors like Kevin Stitt. 2. Perpetrators will personally benefit by getting more votes in the next Republican primary they run in. 3. Their supporters will be pleased because the cruelty is the point.
ttyprintk 2y ago
That could happen and simultaneously teach kids a lifelong satisfying understanding of Jesus and Christianity. The arrest of a money-changing protester by the Roman administration. Commonplace method and frequency of capital punishment. A radical who read, for example, Leviticus and his own handpicked selected emphasized passages persist into the New Testament; ready for a mildly rebellious teen to apply His teachings directly to the chafing hypocrisy of PTA meetings, school boards, college essays, and any place we as adults expected polite secular obedience but instead deserve to get our faces rubbed into the risky business of actually teaching Christ.

squircle 2y ago

I enjoyed reading the bible when I was a kid. It seemed very real and somehow approachable. Christianty, I think, is a very human-scale religion. However, note the "teach" in the headline--as if education should be little more than an education beaten into you. Sure, this will help anyone succeed (just follow the asshole in front of you.) Perhaps they should consider teaching all religions? Or, rather, give students access to all religious texts and teach them about hermeneutics and comparative studies.

listless 2y ago
It’s odd how we glorify religion in this country, and then are immediately horrified when it rears its head in certain places. We seem conflicted. Is it a good thing, or a bad thing? Or maybe just the “right one” is a good thing? Full disclosure: I consider it a good thing.
- dotcoma 2y ago
  ‘Our’ religion, good. Others’ religion, bad. It’s so simple, really ;)
wkat4242 2y ago
I understand you see value in it. But that may differ. I know I would have hated being forced to read the bible as a child. Even though I was baptized I very quickly became a student of science and I rejected religion as soon as I could talk. I was very opinionated in my school days. Luckily nobody tried to teach it to me or it would have been war >:] In fact my school tried to put me in the optional Latin class because I was a really good student and "important people know Latin" and I made myself completely impossible there because I didn't see the point in learning a dead language. I look to the future not the past. That didn't last long and after that I was a teacher's pet again, they just had to learn their lesson that no means no. Heheh Ps they were right in the end and Latin would have been handy because now I struggle with Latin based languages. But oh well. Standing up for what you think is right is important and I would do it again :)
- 2y ago

mbfg 2y ago

[flagged]

wkat4242 2y ago

Isn't this the US, the country of freedom of things like religion? Just asking for a friend.

dotcoma 2y ago
Not at all. You have freedom of religion but not freedom from religion. It’s ok whatever god you worship, but only as long as you worship one.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  I assume you're joking but just in case you're not.. Really? I thought atheism was a perfectly fine option under "freedom of religion" too. I guess it's ingrained in some parts of society. I would for example not be happy to swear on the bible. But in Holland we have this alternative thing for atheists where we have to swear to the king or something. I don't recognise our monarchy either but whatever :) it feels more acceptable because everyone can see that that's just a made up concept (I view a constitutional monarchy as a glorification of previous dictatorship)
  - dotcoma 2y ago
    If you are asking me, no, I am not joking. Did the US ever have an atheist president? There you go. I, too, would rather swear on the monarchy (or on the republic) than on the Bible, but I am not sure they have that option in the US.
  - drewcoo 2y ago
    There's no atheism allowed in 12 step programs . . .
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  Under the Constitution, you have both freedom of religiois exercise and freedom from religious establishment, as well as a freedom from religious tests for public office. The last two preclude institutionalization of religion with state mandate, even something as broad as the generic theism you suggest.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago

It's becoming ever more silly & pointless to say as the travesty & ridiculous overreach (of these extremist theocratic/un-democratic) radicals keeps spreading, but like, low key thank you for showing us who you are, for so visibly not caring at all about anyone but yourselves & your particular & strange delusions. I hope some day we survive (as a free society) to calmer chiller times, and look back & reflect. It feels like theres a total lack of moderation, that this extremism has been growing, and I hope we can survive & not be corralled into a top-down overbearing government that forces a select peoples chosen way of life on everyone.

shiroiushi 2y ago
>I hope we can survive & not be corralled into a top-down overbearing government that forces a select peoples chosen way of life on everyone. When you have a country where too many groups of people have fundamental disagreements on basic issues, I think it's probably inevitable that one of two possible outcomes happens: the country breaks apart, or an authoritarian government takes over.
- fellowniusmonk 2y ago
  That is the Falsist of False Dichotomies. You really think there are only two possible outcomes? And those are the two you've chosen? Unreal.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    Can you point to many historical examples of countries where different groups inside were actively antagonistic towards each other, and the country wasn't authoritarian?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
fellowniusmonk 2y ago
This is what decadent, weak, unprincipled governance looks like. According to USNews OK is 49th in education, I presume that this decision is just like so many other cultural death spirals where the people have now become so ignorant from decades of substandard educational practices that they can no longer reason through what foundations are required for success in the first place. Brain drain is very real.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

bawolff 2y ago

The bible as a document is really fascinating from an historical & mythological perspective. Too bad that is probably not what is meant.

shiroiushi 2y ago
>The bible as a document is really fascinating from an historical & mythological perspective. It is? I always considered the mythology rather boring. The Greek and Norse mythologies always seemed much more interesting and entertaining to me.
- bawolff 2y ago
  I think the part i find interesting is it seems like we have a better picture of how the mythology shifted over time and was interpreted by different groups than we do with greek and norse mythology. So not just the stories themselves but how they were adapted in different contexts. I dont actually know that much about the subject. Recently this video on youtube popped up for me about early history of what would later become the abrahamic religions, and i was just kind of fascinated by it https://youtu.be/mdKst8zeh-U?si=nhdcZJAnQlRPQVv6 https://youtu.be/mdKst8zeh-U?si=nhdcZJAnQlRPQVv6
- sologoub 2y ago
  From a scientific perspective, the text is very rich and shows somewhat chronological evolution of beliefs and society systems. Coupled with responses to catastrophic events/influences, like the Babylonian captivity influencing what heaven and hell were understood to be, there’s a lot to study/research. There are many university courses on the subject that are not a religious class.
- krapp 2y ago
  A lot of of the interesting mythology was left out of the Bible, unfortunately.
- drewcoo 2y ago
  This atheist says the Song of Solomon is not at all boring.

yedava 2y ago

Up next - evolution is just a "theory", like intelligent design.

megamike 2y ago

I have found the bible they are going to teach https://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Bible-Translation-Commentary-Three/dp/0393292495 https://www.amazon.com/Hebrew-Bible-Translation-Commentary-T...

err4nt 2y ago
Is it? I hope so, because this is a fantastic translation, it preserves as much of the wordplay from the hebrew, and whatever is not able to be brought through in the translation is well-annotated in the notes below.
- ttyprintk 2y ago
  Completely agree. There really is not a better one. But, a student bringing in the Greek Old Testament familiar to Paul should be able to participate. And Jewish kids. I find no value in segregating kids into different groups like the way sex ed.

Duanemclemore 2y ago

Cool cool. So we can expect forthwith the hasty inclusion of Locke, Hume, Hobbes, Paine, Voltaire, Spinoza, Montesquieu, Rousseau, Seneca, Cato, et al? I mean... those were all more plainly and specifically influential on the founders than the Christian Bible. I'd be interested to hear specifically what passages they will incorporate and on what basis of relevance to the history of the founding of the US these are chosen, and how they plan to not get lost in the weeds of religious doctrine. Or is this just another cheap ploy to waste taxpayer money losing another lawsuit to the Satanic Temple?

MissTake 2y ago

This is hot on the heels of this man loosing one case against the Oklahoma Supreme Court. Ryan Walters recently lost when the highest court in the State ruled that it’s unconstitutional to create a state funded religious charter school. Not one to obey the law this one - it seems to be the thing with these Christian Nationalists, to embrace the courts when they rule in their favor, then complain, bitch and invariably then ignore when the courts rule against them. Apparently he saw what Louisiana did, then looked around for someone to hold his beer…

xnx 2y ago

Will Christian mythology be taught alongside Greek, Roman, Norse, etc.?

dang 2y ago
Please don't start religious flamewars on HN*. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html * yes, even in a religiously flammable thread. Especially then, in fact—note this guideline: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

deepfriedchokes 2y ago

I look forward to the Satanic Temple’s predictable response to this.