5 ms·

If I had lost a family member to drug abuse I would want justice (ie. jail time) not money.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> I would want justice (ie. jail time) not money Retribution not restitution [1]. “Justice” in this context is ambiguous. [1] https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purposes-of-punishment/ https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purpose...
- 1024core 2y ago
  What's the point of "restitution" if it came from the victims anyways? The Sacklers would have kept all of their ill-gotten gains under this settlement. The amount they'd be paying is practically just the interest from their earnings.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > What's the point of "restitution" if it came from the victims anyways? The difference between having money and not. > amount they'd be paying is practically just the interest from their earnings Not disputing, the majority almost admits as much, but source?
  - a2dam 2y ago
    Restoring what was taken from the victims is literally the definition of restitution.
    - FireBeyond 2y ago
      Except if all you have is restitution, there's no punishment. "Hey, I stole this money from you but since I gave it back - after a court ordered me to - we're all square, right?"
      - 1024core 2y ago
        Exactly. If they're just returning the money (sans interest), where's the punishment? If you steal $100 from a bank, you spend more time in jail than these scumbags ever will.
- tunesmith 2y ago
  I have a hard time with the concept of retribution alone, but I think if it is phrased in terms of modeling societal standards and demonstrating to others that this behavior is unacceptable, it is still valuable to society. I guess you can mark that under "deterrence", but it's less about sending a signal to future would-be criminals, and more about communicating and demonstrating societal standards to the entire society at large.
richwater 2y ago
justice from whom? Just because they got a prescription doesn't mean they lost complete body autonomy. The lack of personal responsibility regarding drugs around here is insane.
- ericmay 2y ago
  I'm not sure about the justice aspect, but I wouldn't underestimate how powerfully addicting some of these drugs can be to the point where it can override your "personal responsibility". Same thing with any substance like alcohol or cigarettes, gambling, over-eating, etc. It's very easy to slip into abuse and an addictive response and susceptibility isn't universal.
- emaro 2y ago
  Opioids are highly addictive. If you're vulnerable and your doctor eagerly prescribes them because it feeds their wallet, you can easily loose control. Don't blame the victims.
  - richwater 2y ago
    > Don't blame the victims. Expecting some personal agency is now victim blaming? Detoxing from opioids is not fatal. It sucks. But it's doable. You don't need to take your entire prescription. Take it while you're in pain.
    - causal 2y ago
      If you were prescribed heroin and proceeded to take it, you would end up addicted and unable to quit. Full stop. It is exceedingly rare to overcome opiates, you underestimate them greatly.
- causal 2y ago
  The whole basis of this suit is that a Purdue subsidiary went out of their way to market these pills as non-addicting. "Personal responsibility" in this case clearly lies on those actors, not the addicts.

> I would want justice (ie. jail time) not money Retribution not restitution [1]. “Justice” in this context is ambiguous. [1] https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purposes-of-punishment/ https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purpose...

1024core 2y ago
What's the point of "restitution" if it came from the victims anyways? The Sacklers would have kept all of their ill-gotten gains under this settlement. The amount they'd be paying is practically just the interest from their earnings.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > What's the point of "restitution" if it came from the victims anyways? The difference between having money and not. > amount they'd be paying is practically just the interest from their earnings Not disputing, the majority almost admits as much, but source?
- a2dam 2y ago
  Restoring what was taken from the victims is literally the definition of restitution.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    Except if all you have is restitution, there's no punishment. "Hey, I stole this money from you but since I gave it back - after a court ordered me to - we're all square, right?"
    - 1024core 2y ago
      Exactly. If they're just returning the money (sans interest), where's the punishment? If you steal $100 from a bank, you spend more time in jail than these scumbags ever will.
tunesmith 2y ago
I have a hard time with the concept of retribution alone, but I think if it is phrased in terms of modeling societal standards and demonstrating to others that this behavior is unacceptable, it is still valuable to society. I guess you can mark that under "deterrence", but it's less about sending a signal to future would-be criminals, and more about communicating and demonstrating societal standards to the entire society at large.

richwater 2y ago

justice from whom? Just because they got a prescription doesn't mean they lost complete body autonomy. The lack of personal responsibility regarding drugs around here is insane.

ericmay 2y ago
I'm not sure about the justice aspect, but I wouldn't underestimate how powerfully addicting some of these drugs can be to the point where it can override your "personal responsibility". Same thing with any substance like alcohol or cigarettes, gambling, over-eating, etc. It's very easy to slip into abuse and an addictive response and susceptibility isn't universal.
emaro 2y ago
Opioids are highly addictive. If you're vulnerable and your doctor eagerly prescribes them because it feeds their wallet, you can easily loose control. Don't blame the victims.
- richwater 2y ago
  > Don't blame the victims. Expecting some personal agency is now victim blaming? Detoxing from opioids is not fatal. It sucks. But it's doable. You don't need to take your entire prescription. Take it while you're in pain.
  - causal 2y ago
    If you were prescribed heroin and proceeded to take it, you would end up addicted and unable to quit. Full stop. It is exceedingly rare to overcome opiates, you underestimate them greatly.
causal 2y ago
The whole basis of this suit is that a Purdue subsidiary went out of their way to market these pills as non-addicting. "Personal responsibility" in this case clearly lies on those actors, not the addicts.