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Does anyone know if Embark are still using a lot of rust in their production games? They seem to be a very well funded studio (lots of employees, big fancy offi

by zith 2y ago

Does anyone know if Embark are still using a lot of rust in their production games? They seem to be a very well funded studio (lots of employees, big fancy office, competes with other AAA FPS-games). I wonder if these experimental-sounding projects have given way to more classic tech in the churn of building games that are profitable.

rob74 2y ago
According to the article, Rust is (or was) used in the kajiya renderer and in the "creative platform", not in their production games: > Our Rust project has different requirements than a video game. It’s a platform that will enable everyone — not just professional game makers — to build new small interactive experiences. The kajiya renderer is available on GitHub, but contributions have slowed down since mid 2022: https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/kajiya/graphs/contributors https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/kajiya/graphs/contributors The "creative platform" is now apparently available under wim.live (and has a twitter account called @createplaywim): https://wim.live/en/ https://wim.live/en/ - but the website only seems to play a video, I couldn't find any other functionality. They seem to be using Rust in a lot of tools though: https://github.com/EmbarkStudios https://github.com/EmbarkStudios
- whizzter 2y ago
  The author of the linked article (and Kajiya) quit Embark to work on an indie title with his wife around mid 2022 if memory serves me right.
kg 2y ago
One obstacle is that at least one of the major console vendors prohibits using anything other than C++ plus their official compiler. So shipping on that platform using i.e. Rust, Swift, C# is currently against the rules. (Unity gets an out here since they compile C# down to C++ using IL2CPP.) I expect some studios are just quietly breaking the rule and not telling anyone, but I'd be worried, personally.
- grafs50 2y ago
  Which console vendor is that?
  - kevingadd 2y ago
    They get really upset if you disclose things like that :)
    - Thegn 2y ago
      My gut says Nintendo, because Microsoft doesn't give a shit what you use as long as you write for them, and Sony doesn't feel like they'd be that petty.
      - neonsunset 2y ago
        You can ship games for Nintendo with private modification of NativeAOT + FNA: https://viridiansoftware.com/blog/csharp-on-game-consoles https://viridiansoftware.com/blog/csharp-on-game-consoles
      - dewbrite 2y ago
        But Microsoft _does_ have a widely known C++ compiler. I doubt Sony does. Does Nintendo?
  - jdright 2y ago
    Sony
- watermelon0 2y ago
  What would the reasoning for such a decision be?
- vrmiguel 2y ago
  CrossCode was written in JS/HTML5 and was ported over to consoles just fine, though. They mention stuff like "an interpreter which translates the [JavaScript] code but locks it up in a cage"¹, their presentation² mention JS interpreters and a JS AoT compiler, so I'm not really sure how they did it ¹: https://www.radicalfishgames.com/?p=6892 https://www.radicalfishgames.com/?p=6892 ²: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfBzlzvt8RU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfBzlzvt8RU
henriquecm8 2y ago
The games embark has released are made in Unreal Engine, maybe the game using rust hasn't been released yet.
cyber_kinetist 2y ago
Nope, their two flagship games (The Finals, and the soon-to-be-released Ark Raiders) are all using Unreal Engine. Seems that they're trying to earn money by shipping games in Unreal first, while developing their Rust-based engine behind the scenes.
molenzwiebel 2y ago
Their Rust game is currently in closed alpha: https://wim.live/en/ https://wim.live/en/. Last time I tried it, they were working on integrating wasm support for user-accessible custom scriptable scenarios (a la Roblox).

by zith 2y ago

rob74 2y ago

According to the article, Rust is (or was) used in the kajiya renderer and in the "creative platform", not in their production games: > Our Rust project has different requirements than a video game. It’s a platform that will enable everyone — not just professional game makers — to build new small interactive experiences. The kajiya renderer is available on GitHub, but contributions have slowed down since mid 2022: https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/kajiya/graphs/contributors https://github.com/EmbarkStudios/kajiya/graphs/contributors The "creative platform" is now apparently available under wim.live (and has a twitter account called @createplaywim): https://wim.live/en/ https://wim.live/en/ - but the website only seems to play a video, I couldn't find any other functionality. They seem to be using Rust in a lot of tools though: https://github.com/EmbarkStudios https://github.com/EmbarkStudios

whizzter 2y ago
The author of the linked article (and Kajiya) quit Embark to work on an indie title with his wife around mid 2022 if memory serves me right.

kg 2y ago

One obstacle is that at least one of the major console vendors prohibits using anything other than C++ plus their official compiler. So shipping on that platform using i.e. Rust, Swift, C# is currently against the rules. (Unity gets an out here since they compile C# down to C++ using IL2CPP.) I expect some studios are just quietly breaking the rule and not telling anyone, but I'd be worried, personally.

grafs50 2y ago
Which console vendor is that?
- kevingadd 2y ago
  They get really upset if you disclose things like that :)
  - Thegn 2y ago
    My gut says Nintendo, because Microsoft doesn't give a shit what you use as long as you write for them, and Sony doesn't feel like they'd be that petty.
    - neonsunset 2y ago
      You can ship games for Nintendo with private modification of NativeAOT + FNA: https://viridiansoftware.com/blog/csharp-on-game-consoles https://viridiansoftware.com/blog/csharp-on-game-consoles
    - dewbrite 2y ago
      But Microsoft _does_ have a widely known C++ compiler. I doubt Sony does. Does Nintendo?
- jdright 2y ago
  Sony
watermelon0 2y ago
What would the reasoning for such a decision be?
vrmiguel 2y ago
CrossCode was written in JS/HTML5 and was ported over to consoles just fine, though. They mention stuff like "an interpreter which translates the [JavaScript] code but locks it up in a cage"¹, their presentation² mention JS interpreters and a JS AoT compiler, so I'm not really sure how they did it ¹: https://www.radicalfishgames.com/?p=6892 https://www.radicalfishgames.com/?p=6892 ²: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfBzlzvt8RU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfBzlzvt8RU

henriquecm8 2y ago

The games embark has released are made in Unreal Engine, maybe the game using rust hasn't been released yet.

cyber_kinetist 2y ago

Nope, their two flagship games (The Finals, and the soon-to-be-released Ark Raiders) are all using Unreal Engine. Seems that they're trying to earn money by shipping games in Unreal first, while developing their Rust-based engine behind the scenes.

molenzwiebel 2y ago

Their Rust game is currently in closed alpha: https://wim.live/en/ https://wim.live/en/. Last time I tried it, they were working on integrating wasm support for user-accessible custom scriptable scenarios (a la Roblox).