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You can force starving people into unfair arrangements where the choice is between getting screwed or dying of hunger. You can use the existence of starving peo

You can force starving people into unfair arrangements where the choice is between getting screwed or dying of hunger. You can use the existence of starving people as a threat to keep your work force in line. Sometimes it's not even the starving people that you're making money off of, but their minerals and land. There are a lot of ways to profit from suffering. And sometimes it's not even about profit—it can just feel so good to have an Other to oppress.

WalterBright 2y ago
> You can force starving people into unfair arrangements where the choice is between getting screwed or dying of hunger. History shows us that if you want to force starving people to work for you, you also need to shoot the people who refuse. See the Soviet gulags, and the Nazi slave labor camps.
- eat_veggies 2y ago
  Indeed the arrangement is violent and enforced with terrible violence, and in no way is this incompatible with profits.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - mandmandam 2y ago
      How does this account keep managing to make every thread on HN into 'communism bad' without getting flagged? Tell me your secrets Walter.
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        > make every thread on HN Only in response to posts that extol the virtues of collectivism and/or how bad freedom is. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it :-) > Tell me your secrets Walter Too bad it seems to be a secret that free markets are far more successful. My dad was a finance professor at a college in his later years. He said students would tell him from time to time that they had never heard of a case for free markets before. Isn't that amazing for people that lived their whole life in a free market country? I remember one person complained to me that I was "ramming freedom down his throat!" It boggles the mind. Note that I don't attack or berate people. Only ideas. dang knows about me. You can ask him.
        mandmandam 2y ago
        I'm sure your "dirty job" makes sense to you, and it's clear you even feel very righteous about it. Be that as it may, ideological crusades such as this are explicitly disallowed on here. "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity." Dang has been very clear on that, many times - whatever he "knows about you". You really think it's "impossible" for a corporation with Star Trek replicator tech to profit from starving people? ... And that was the right time to fight "the virtues of collectivism"? You are trampling curiousity, and have admitted as much, and now you really ought to consider giving it a rest.
        Jensson 2y ago
        > Be that as it may, ideological crusades such as this are explicitly disallowed on here. "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity." That goes for both sides, every time someone repeats the meme "capitalism bad!" they are perpetuating their own crusade, at that time the gloves are off and it is free to engage with them. You can see it in this thread where people started out by trash talking capitalism, at that point it is ok to go and defend capitalism according to HN guidelines even if you do it in every thread where people start attacking capitalism. Its those who start attacking capitalism everywhere that needs to stop if this happens too often, since they are almost always the instigators.
        mandmandam 2y ago
        > every time someone repeats the meme "capitalism bad!" they are perpetuating their own crusade That's called 'false equivalence'. Discussions about economic systems can be had without being crusades. > at that point it is ok to go and defend capitalism according to HN guidelines No, I don't think the spirit of the guidelines is to permit "ideological battles" as long as "someone else starts it". The clear intent of the guidelines is to discourage ideological crusade altogether. > Its those who start attacking capitalism everywhere that needs to stop if this happens too often 'Selective enforcement'. Your argument suggests that it's okay to defend capitalism in response to criticism, but doesn't extend the same courtesy to those criticizing capitalism. > since they are almost always the instigators. A generalization without any evidence. Also, capitalism is currently the dominant system in the West, making it both the obvious starting point for discussion of economic systems, and the most productive candidate for legitimate criticism. I think your comment shows severe bias and an adversarial approach to discussion. Maybe you could form an appreciation for the spirit of fostering curiosity and constructive dialogue that is promoted here.
      - SequoiaHope 2y ago
        As an anarcho communist and prolific HN commenter I sigh every time I see his name. Sadly he doesn’t actually understand communism and seems to be stuck in 1980’s anti communist propaganda. For example the sibling comment to this one where he conflates collectivism with being “anti freedom” (lol). At least he’s getting the downvotes he deserves in this thread.
        lilly45 2y ago
        [flagged]
        cess11 2y ago
        As a non-usian it seems kind of weird to see someone from the US declare that using weapons to keep people working is a non-usian thing to do, when a lot of the news we get from over there is cops killing people, school shootings, stuff about school-prison pipelines, things like that. Then there are the genocidal militias employed by US companies to keep people from unionising, the genocidal treatment of indonesians, and so on.
        lilly45 2y ago
        [flagged]
        carla456 2y ago
        [flagged]
        greenyoda 2y ago
        [Note: spam link in comment.]
        WalterBright 2y ago
        > Sadly he doesn’t actually understand communism Maybe you can cite examples of it working? It's legal to start a commune in the US. Why not give it a try? Report back to us how it goes! > conflates collectivism with being “anti freedom” (lol) I do, because collectivism means you do not own the fruits of your labor. I bet you'd be outraged if I helped myself to some of your stuff that I decided you didn't need.
    - BSDobelix 2y ago
      >History shows us that slave labor cannot compete with free labor. History shows us that you can build Pyramids and the Chinese wall with slave labor, probably not affordable with "free labor". But maybe we should also look at "modern slavery" that is "free labor" but without any chance to get another job or get reported to the police. >it's about forcible slave labor, forced with guns and whips. Worked incredible well for Belgium, and works incredible well for every warlord in west-Africa...and for us (>bloody< cheap raw-materials for our phones) I know what you want to say with it, forcing specialized people with whips isn't going to give you good results in the long run, however if you just need their joules it's shockingly effective.
      - defrost 2y ago
        > History shows us Does it? Contrary to popular belief, it wasn’t slaves who built the pyramids. We know this because archaeologists have located the remains of a purpose-built village for the thousands of workers who built the famous Giza pyramids, nearly 4,500 years ago. https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/were-the-egyptian-pyramids-built-by-slaves https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/were-the-egyptian-pyram... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt#Great_Pyramids_not_built_by_slaves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt#Great...
        BSDobelix 2y ago
        Yes, maybe the slaves did the less "worthy" jobs: >Slaves were a constant presence in ancient Egypt. Starting with the Old Kingdom (2613 - 2181 BC), slaves took on different roles. Some became soldiers, others scribes. https://www.worldatlas.com/ancient-world/were-slaves-used-to-build-the-pyramids-debunking-a-long-standing-myth.html https://www.worldatlas.com/ancient-world/were-slaves-used-to... >Does it? Yes it does, or do you have another argument against the Chinese wall or Belgium for example? Do you really want to argue against the fact that slaves did (and do) the hardest, most back-breaking jobs?
        WalterBright 2y ago
        Slave labor can indeed accomplish things, but it cannot compete with free labor.

WalterBright 2y ago

> You can force starving people into unfair arrangements where the choice is between getting screwed or dying of hunger. History shows us that if you want to force starving people to work for you, you also need to shoot the people who refuse. See the Soviet gulags, and the Nazi slave labor camps.

eat_veggies 2y ago
Indeed the arrangement is violent and enforced with terrible violence, and in no way is this incompatible with profits.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - mandmandam 2y ago
    How does this account keep managing to make every thread on HN into 'communism bad' without getting flagged? Tell me your secrets Walter.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      > make every thread on HN Only in response to posts that extol the virtues of collectivism and/or how bad freedom is. It's a dirty job, but someone has to do it :-) > Tell me your secrets Walter Too bad it seems to be a secret that free markets are far more successful. My dad was a finance professor at a college in his later years. He said students would tell him from time to time that they had never heard of a case for free markets before. Isn't that amazing for people that lived their whole life in a free market country? I remember one person complained to me that I was "ramming freedom down his throat!" It boggles the mind. Note that I don't attack or berate people. Only ideas. dang knows about me. You can ask him.
      - mandmandam 2y ago
        I'm sure your "dirty job" makes sense to you, and it's clear you even feel very righteous about it. Be that as it may, ideological crusades such as this are explicitly disallowed on here. "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity." Dang has been very clear on that, many times - whatever he "knows about you". You really think it's "impossible" for a corporation with Star Trek replicator tech to profit from starving people? ... And that was the right time to fight "the virtues of collectivism"? You are trampling curiousity, and have admitted as much, and now you really ought to consider giving it a rest.
        Jensson 2y ago
        > Be that as it may, ideological crusades such as this are explicitly disallowed on here. "Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity." That goes for both sides, every time someone repeats the meme "capitalism bad!" they are perpetuating their own crusade, at that time the gloves are off and it is free to engage with them. You can see it in this thread where people started out by trash talking capitalism, at that point it is ok to go and defend capitalism according to HN guidelines even if you do it in every thread where people start attacking capitalism. Its those who start attacking capitalism everywhere that needs to stop if this happens too often, since they are almost always the instigators.
        mandmandam 2y ago
        > every time someone repeats the meme "capitalism bad!" they are perpetuating their own crusade That's called 'false equivalence'. Discussions about economic systems can be had without being crusades. > at that point it is ok to go and defend capitalism according to HN guidelines No, I don't think the spirit of the guidelines is to permit "ideological battles" as long as "someone else starts it". The clear intent of the guidelines is to discourage ideological crusade altogether. > Its those who start attacking capitalism everywhere that needs to stop if this happens too often 'Selective enforcement'. Your argument suggests that it's okay to defend capitalism in response to criticism, but doesn't extend the same courtesy to those criticizing capitalism. > since they are almost always the instigators. A generalization without any evidence. Also, capitalism is currently the dominant system in the West, making it both the obvious starting point for discussion of economic systems, and the most productive candidate for legitimate criticism. I think your comment shows severe bias and an adversarial approach to discussion. Maybe you could form an appreciation for the spirit of fostering curiosity and constructive dialogue that is promoted here.
    - SequoiaHope 2y ago
      As an anarcho communist and prolific HN commenter I sigh every time I see his name. Sadly he doesn’t actually understand communism and seems to be stuck in 1980’s anti communist propaganda. For example the sibling comment to this one where he conflates collectivism with being “anti freedom” (lol). At least he’s getting the downvotes he deserves in this thread.
      - lilly45 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - cess11 2y ago
        As a non-usian it seems kind of weird to see someone from the US declare that using weapons to keep people working is a non-usian thing to do, when a lot of the news we get from over there is cops killing people, school shootings, stuff about school-prison pipelines, things like that. Then there are the genocidal militias employed by US companies to keep people from unionising, the genocidal treatment of indonesians, and so on.
      - lilly45 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - carla456 2y ago
        [flagged]
        greenyoda 2y ago
        [Note: spam link in comment.]
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        > Sadly he doesn’t actually understand communism Maybe you can cite examples of it working? It's legal to start a commune in the US. Why not give it a try? Report back to us how it goes! > conflates collectivism with being “anti freedom” (lol) I do, because collectivism means you do not own the fruits of your labor. I bet you'd be outraged if I helped myself to some of your stuff that I decided you didn't need.
  - BSDobelix 2y ago
    >History shows us that slave labor cannot compete with free labor. History shows us that you can build Pyramids and the Chinese wall with slave labor, probably not affordable with "free labor". But maybe we should also look at "modern slavery" that is "free labor" but without any chance to get another job or get reported to the police. >it's about forcible slave labor, forced with guns and whips. Worked incredible well for Belgium, and works incredible well for every warlord in west-Africa...and for us (>bloody< cheap raw-materials for our phones) I know what you want to say with it, forcing specialized people with whips isn't going to give you good results in the long run, however if you just need their joules it's shockingly effective.
    - defrost 2y ago
      > History shows us Does it? Contrary to popular belief, it wasn’t slaves who built the pyramids. We know this because archaeologists have located the remains of a purpose-built village for the thousands of workers who built the famous Giza pyramids, nearly 4,500 years ago. https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/were-the-egyptian-pyramids-built-by-slaves https://www.sciencefocus.com/science/were-the-egyptian-pyram... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt#Great_Pyramids_not_built_by_slaves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_ancient_Egypt#Great...
      - BSDobelix 2y ago
        Yes, maybe the slaves did the less "worthy" jobs: >Slaves were a constant presence in ancient Egypt. Starting with the Old Kingdom (2613 - 2181 BC), slaves took on different roles. Some became soldiers, others scribes. https://www.worldatlas.com/ancient-world/were-slaves-used-to-build-the-pyramids-debunking-a-long-standing-myth.html https://www.worldatlas.com/ancient-world/were-slaves-used-to... >Does it? Yes it does, or do you have another argument against the Chinese wall or Belgium for example? Do you really want to argue against the fact that slaves did (and do) the hardest, most back-breaking jobs?
        WalterBright 2y ago
        Slave labor can indeed accomplish things, but it cannot compete with free labor.