23 ms·

Wild elephants may have names that other elephants use to call them

130 points by hackernj 2y ago

DEADMINCE 2y ago
Elephants are one of the smartest animals, possessing self-awareness and metacognition, an extreme rarity in the animal kingdom. They are one of the few species to make art and mourn and bury their dead. That they have unique identifiers is not a surprise at all.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > one of the few species to make art Source?
  - defrost 2y ago
    They're also one of the few species to build roads and bridges. I suspect the quiet part of the three assertions is "under human supervision". You can certainly visit various zoos and purchase art by elephants and watch them paint with brushes on large canvases. Typically less dense than a Jackson Pollack and less use of spaghetti than a Pro Hart* carpet. ( * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb4n8yc2so https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb4n8yc2so )
    - ab5tract 2y ago
      Fun fact: Bison created deep, wide grooves in the plains and prairies that were subsequently used by the settlers moving west in their wagons.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    Assuming that the videos are real, elephants on zoos had being recorded painting scenes on canvasses that aren't completely abstract. They are trained to paint to please visitors, but curiously they seem to enjoy drawing trees. Is not clear to me if they just parrot the training or really try to send a message or draw some scene that they find instinctively pleasant. (but wouldn't be strange having in mind their intelligence).
- Log_out_ 2y ago
  How do they react to complex reveals? Google earth + ZOOM on a tablet? A video of evolutionary development and history?
  - Log_out_ 2y ago
    Why is that controversial, the ability to recognize a map and handle the revealed absteaction via a zoom slider is a great tool to observe cognitive flexibility..
    - g15jv2dp 2y ago
      Show a human from 300 AD a tablet with google earth and zoom, and they'd have no idea wtf is going on. It's not about intelligence.
      - Log_out_ 2y ago
        They can recognize the surroundings, move to places they visited on the "magic" map and display curiosity towards the wider world and its shape.
    - tzarko 2y ago
      Using google earth on a tablet along with a zoom slider as a way of measuring cognition is the most HN take I’ve seen in a while.
- waste_monk 2y ago
  It's said that they never forget, and they never forgive.
bitwize 2y ago
This is not surprising to me; dolphins and crows do as well. I've come to expect it from any creature at or near human-level intelligence.
- alexb23 2y ago
  What’s very remarkable is that elephants like human seem to invent abstract names; other animals like dolphins mimic the signature sound of another to attract their attention.
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    As a precursor to Animal Farm, Kipling's https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/tale/her-majestys-servants.htm https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/tale/her-majestys-servants.... (1894) features a number of animals caught up in state bureaucracy. The other animals have nicknamed the elephant "Two Tails", and it explains that it is afraid in battle because it can think about what happens when a shell bursts, and ruminates upon whether it might not be better off back at home in the forest rather than here in the army...
- riffic 2y ago
  darwin himself said the difference of mind between humans and higher animals is one of degree, not kind.
neonate 2y ago
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-024-02420-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-024-02420-w
wtarreau 2y ago
Not surprised. These animals are fascinating. We're not even sure we have caught everything from their language; maybe it's not just sound-based, and the way they shake their trump and ears or they dance counts a lot as well. I've long wondered if some of them developed some religions or even if they've overcome this need, reserving it to humans only. Another study already showed that some monkeys have vocal words to designate a tiger and an eagle and use that to make all the group go up or down in the tree depending where the threat comes from. Elephants being more complex animals also living in groups are quite likely to have an even more elaborated language.
baby 2y ago
How many animals have human-level language? The only I’m aware are these monkeys that were taught how to sign
- ajb 2y ago
  If you're taking about Koko the gorilla, that one is controversial. Look up Alex the parrot (Irene Pepperberg), which has a decent evidence base
- circlefavshape 2y ago
  The true answer is "we don't know".
lacker 2y ago
I wonder if they have "two-word sentences", sequences of calls that mean something particular in context. Like "Bob, eat!" or "Mom, help!".
youniverse 2y ago
Somewhat OT but have you guys seen this video of a horse entertaining a baby - what an incredible display of intelligence. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3CP7IXOjIhw https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3CP7IXOjIhw

130 points by hackernj 2y ago

Elephants are one of the smartest animals, possessing self-awareness and metacognition, an extreme rarity in the animal kingdom. They are one of the few species to make art and mourn and bury their dead. That they have unique identifiers is not a surprise at all.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> one of the few species to make art Source?
- defrost 2y ago
  They're also one of the few species to build roads and bridges. I suspect the quiet part of the three assertions is "under human supervision". You can certainly visit various zoos and purchase art by elephants and watch them paint with brushes on large canvases. Typically less dense than a Jackson Pollack and less use of spaghetti than a Pro Hart* carpet. ( * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb4n8yc2so https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qb4n8yc2so )
  - ab5tract 2y ago
    Fun fact: Bison created deep, wide grooves in the plains and prairies that were subsequently used by the settlers moving west in their wagons.
- pvaldes 2y ago
  Assuming that the videos are real, elephants on zoos had being recorded painting scenes on canvasses that aren't completely abstract. They are trained to paint to please visitors, but curiously they seem to enjoy drawing trees. Is not clear to me if they just parrot the training or really try to send a message or draw some scene that they find instinctively pleasant. (but wouldn't be strange having in mind their intelligence).
Log_out_ 2y ago
How do they react to complex reveals? Google earth + ZOOM on a tablet? A video of evolutionary development and history?
- Log_out_ 2y ago
  Why is that controversial, the ability to recognize a map and handle the revealed absteaction via a zoom slider is a great tool to observe cognitive flexibility..
  - g15jv2dp 2y ago
    Show a human from 300 AD a tablet with google earth and zoom, and they'd have no idea wtf is going on. It's not about intelligence.
    - Log_out_ 2y ago
      They can recognize the surroundings, move to places they visited on the "magic" map and display curiosity towards the wider world and its shape.
  - tzarko 2y ago
    Using google earth on a tablet along with a zoom slider as a way of measuring cognition is the most HN take I’ve seen in a while.
waste_monk 2y ago
It's said that they never forget, and they never forgive.

bitwize 2y ago

This is not surprising to me; dolphins and crows do as well. I've come to expect it from any creature at or near human-level intelligence.

alexb23 2y ago
What’s very remarkable is that elephants like human seem to invent abstract names; other animals like dolphins mimic the signature sound of another to attract their attention.
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  As a precursor to Animal Farm, Kipling's https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/tale/her-majestys-servants.htm https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/tale/her-majestys-servants.... (1894) features a number of animals caught up in state bureaucracy. The other animals have nicknamed the elephant "Two Tails", and it explains that it is afraid in battle because it can think about what happens when a shell bursts, and ruminates upon whether it might not be better off back at home in the forest rather than here in the army...
riffic 2y ago
darwin himself said the difference of mind between humans and higher animals is one of degree, not kind.

neonate 2y ago

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-024-02420-w https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-024-02420-w

wtarreau 2y ago

Not surprised. These animals are fascinating. We're not even sure we have caught everything from their language; maybe it's not just sound-based, and the way they shake their trump and ears or they dance counts a lot as well. I've long wondered if some of them developed some religions or even if they've overcome this need, reserving it to humans only. Another study already showed that some monkeys have vocal words to designate a tiger and an eagle and use that to make all the group go up or down in the tree depending where the threat comes from. Elephants being more complex animals also living in groups are quite likely to have an even more elaborated language.

baby 2y ago

How many animals have human-level language? The only I’m aware are these monkeys that were taught how to sign

ajb 2y ago
If you're taking about Koko the gorilla, that one is controversial. Look up Alex the parrot (Irene Pepperberg), which has a decent evidence base
circlefavshape 2y ago
The true answer is "we don't know".

lacker 2y ago

I wonder if they have "two-word sentences", sequences of calls that mean something particular in context. Like "Bob, eat!" or "Mom, help!".

youniverse 2y ago

Somewhat OT but have you guys seen this video of a horse entertaining a baby - what an incredible display of intelligence. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3CP7IXOjIhw https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3CP7IXOjIhw