7 ms·

Microsoft's full-screen reminders – upgrade to Windows 11 are back

33 points by nehagup 2y ago

jqpabc123 2y ago
Too bad Linux still can't offer a desktop alternative that is widely acceptable. Personally, I am contemplating moving to a server version of Windows on my desktop. This AI nonsense looks like just a privacy invasion scheme.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- rav3ndust 2y ago
  just out of curiosity, what's wrong with the more 'traditional' Linux desktops, such as Plasma or Cinnamon?
  - jqpabc123 2y ago
    To find the answer, try to convince a large number of people/businesses to use one of them.
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    A lot of the issue is that you were able to name more than one, and that was without mentioning Gnome or XFCE
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      I think that's the great thing about Linux. Something like gnome is so closed down that it couldn't be for everyone. I tried using a ton of plugins to make it workable but then things break with every update.
      - hot_gril 2y ago
        If Gnome doesn't work for everyone, what they had to do was make it work. There has to be a way. The vast majority of the market is using Windows and Mac, and somehow both have avoided the need for multiple separate DEs.
        wkat4242 2y ago
        I actually moved away from Mac because it's so opinionated just like gnome. But what's the problem with having choice?
        hot_gril 2y ago
        It adds complexity, especially for new users and even more for corporations. There's maintenance burden as different DEs fall out of favor, things become incompatible, and you have to migrate. Even sticking to one Linux distro, the default DE can change across versions. If you want to troubleshoot online, you can't Google "how to do X in GNU/Linux," you have to specify the DE and version too. Vs with Mac or Windows it's quite clear what you're using and how you get help for it. Most people don't even think that far though, they just want a name brand they can trust and understand. So the most popular desktop Linux is probably ChromeOS.
        wkat4242 2y ago
        > how to do X in GNU/Linux That's because GNU/Linux isn't an OS. The distributions are distinct OSes. They just have a lot in common. > It adds complexity, especially for new users and even more for corporations. There's maintenance burden as different DEs fall out of favor, things become incompatible, and you have to migrate. Corporations can easily mandate whatever distro and DE they please on their internal systems. Not an issue. The maintenance burden is on the distros and they can choose which DEs they support. They don't have to offer them all. In fact some distros come with a single DE only. I know the wishful thinking that Linux would be a single system that would make it big with consumers. But if that happens, people that love Linux now will absolutely hate it. It will be unrecognisable. All the power and control will be gone because consumers don't want that. They must want to pay someone and trust them. Case in point: ChromeOS. It's exactly that: Linux for the masses. How many Linux fans actually use that because it's Linux?
    - rav3ndust 2y ago
      i mentioned the two I thought people moving from windows would be most comfy with. for them, taskbar on bottom + 'start' menu = "neat, i already know how to use this!" personally, i use i3/sway tiling window managers, and also keep gnome around if i want a full desktop. personally, i love the amount of choice we have in the gnu/linux world. if something doesn't work for you, you can select from so many other options. "but...but...fragmentation! those guys working on cinnamon/mate/etc should just join gnome or kde and make The One True Desktop!" eh. i don't buy this line of thinking.
      - hot_gril 2y ago
        There are plenty of informally agreed-upon defaults in the GNU/Linux world. For instance almost everyone uses Bash, Git is the dominant version control, and the default browser is usually Firefox-based. This doesn't mean alternatives shouldn't exist, but they aren't neck and neck. Somehow no DE has won yet, and that's a serious usability problem.
        rav3ndust 2y ago
        i'd say, in a way, we have 'informally' agreed upon a default desktop. the flagship edition of ubuntu? GNOME. the flagship edition of fedora? GNOME. RHEL? GNOME. installing debian with its defaults? GNOME. while KDE ships on a few distros by default, and Mint ships with Cinnamon as its flagship, by-and-large, GNOME is what you're gonna get from your "major" distributions.
  - cypress66 2y ago
    Most distros can't even recover from a shutdown while updating (windows handles it since Vista).
    - sorbusherra 2y ago
      what do you mean?
    - fffrantz 2y ago
      That's why using immutable distros is awesome. Worst case scenario, you can boot the previous version. I've been using Fedora Silverblue for a while and never got a borked upgrade. It's not without its own flaws, but if you can live with mostly flatpak apps, it's a pretty compelling package.
      - wkat4242 2y ago
        Same with FreeBSD with ZFS on root. Bectl makes an automatic snapshot every time. Not even any need to deal with an immutable OS.
    - hot_gril 2y ago
      Yeah but shutdown while updating is a lot less likely when the OS isn't forcing updates.
    - rav3ndust 2y ago
      on nixOS, if something borks, i can do a system rollback right from my bootscreen. easy-peasy. on debian, i can create system backups/snapshots via timeshift and restore them if something breaks.
    - simonblack 2y ago
      It's extremely rare that any modern journalling filesystem (Windows, Linux, MacOS) can't recover from an unscheduled shutdown these days.
    - type0 2y ago
      Funny you say this, my windows can't seem to recover from updating. Several times it has been stuck for more than one hour at which point I yank the power and try updating some other time. Even the most slower linux distros update in minutes and never failed me for more than a decade.
- hxii 2y ago
  My biggest issue is gaming, as anytime I try doing anything with Proton I find myself screwing around with it too much which defeats the purpose IMO. Otherwise I would’ve switched long ago, as at the very least the development environment is much nicer in Linux.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  I really like plasma. But above all I love that there is choice. I could never deal with gnome 3. If Linux were to pick that as the one standard desktop I just would leave the platform.
  - petre 2y ago
    I moved from a Mac to Gnome 3 and think it's fine, at least compared to MacOS or Windows.
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      I can imagine, but I moved away from macOS precisely because I found it too opinionated. It was actually much better in the past, when it was more of a Unix with a fancy GUI bolted on. These days it's becoming more like iOS, "Trust us, we know better than you how things should work, you must use it like we intended". That's not how I am. I have very strong ideas on how my computer should work. When I look at Gnome I see the exact same ("you're using it wrong") attitude in the developers. That will never fly for me. That's why I love KDE because they embrace choice. The thing is that even with KDE my desktop is quite heavily modified. I use a 3x3 desktop grid with fullsize windows and I remapped the keys on the numpad to be quick desktop selectors without modifier keys and added other quick keys for tab shifting and window to desktop reassignment, so I can control most things fully with the keyboard. Also remapped other things like KDE's Activities for even more flexibility. Also I modified the look and feel very heavily. But I didn't need a single plugin for KDE at all to make this possible! Every time I want to do something outlandish I look around and there is a setting for it. It's amazing. For Gnome (yes I did use it at one stage) I needed a bunch of plugins to do even the most simple things like make the window toolbars not so insanely big, to put virtual desktops in a grid, to add a dock etc. These are some things I used to do in macOS but they removed for example the ability to put virtual desktops in a grid (they are now in a row only) and they added this horrible full-screen option that doesn't do what I want. It felt like every update apple was trying to saw the legs of my chair from under me. I was getting so sick of it. But anyway I would never be on board the linux train if Gnome were the only option available. And even if it were to become one I (and I'm sure many others) would keep alternatives alive. I'm just not a team player. I don't get with the program.
- simonblack 2y ago
  Too bad Linux still can't offer a desktop alternative that is widely acceptable. Well, yes it can. But the choice of Desktop whether that be Linux, MacOS or Windows is just a matter of familiarisation. I have the exact opposite view to you: "Too bad Windows still can't offer a desktop alternative that is widely acceptable." but that is because I have been using a Linux Desktop for over 20 years. I've been using the LinuxMint MATE Desktop for about 10-11 years. If you feel happy with Windows, stick with it. It's your machine, and your choice.
  - prng2021 2y ago
    I haven’t used Windows in over a decade and hate it but if you think Windows is not widely accepted for desktop users on planet Earth while Linux is, you live in an alternate reality.
    - simonblack 2y ago
      If you think Windows 11 is 'widely acceptable' then let's agree to differ. <grin>
beretguy 2y ago
Saw one yesterday for the first time.
rsolva 2y ago
These fullscreen messages are so confusing to elderly people, most of my support calls from family and friends are related to the weird and unpredictable updates and invasive popups, or the consequences from these. I have slowly been moving them, one by one, over to Fedora. I still get support calls, but not related to the OS, more like, "how do I add an attachment to this email, I forgot."
- hot_gril 2y ago
  Would've never thought of having a non-tech-understanding person use GNU/Linux before, but nowadays I think Windows has managed to close the gap on its own by becoming horrible. Though there are other options like iPad or Chromebook.
  - Delk 2y ago
    If they're non-tech-understanding enough, it might not matter at all. Someone who's oblivious enough may use the computer as more of an appliance (plus web). I had my ageing parents set up with a Linux desktop for some years in the past. I just -pre-configured everything they'd likely have needed. Browser, email, instant messaging (as it was at the time), a photos app, possibly something else I'm forgetting. It's the somewhat tech-savvy (or at least somewhat tech-independent) for whom such a transition might be the most trouble. (And, of course, those people who use specialized applications or hardware for which support may not be available, or who use workflows that require going somewhat below the "appliance" level and which could require significant relearning.)
    - hot_gril 2y ago
      I agree that the semi-power-user category is the most problematic, but my grandma wasn't there. More like, so non-tech-savvy that she accidentally clicked buttons or hit shortcuts for power users, messing things up in ways she couldn't fix. Like, she deleted the Safari address bar and installed 10 malicious Chrome extensions. Used her mouse upside-down for a while once. GNU/Linux actually might've been best because it's harder to do anything in it. Chromebook wasn't an option cause the screens are too small, and idk if Chromeboxes were viable back then (~2015). She used to use Windows, which was an unmitigated disaster with viruses.
nailer 2y ago
I tried to read this article attempting to find any instance of the aforementioned Full screen reminder and about 10 images in I gave up.
wdb 2y ago
I think I just read a news article about Windows advertising about the many notifications on Macs?
Havoc 2y ago
They're increasingly becoming UX hostile. Also, what's up with the random "welcome to your new device, lets set everything up". Seen that about 4 times already on my current W11 install.
simonblack 2y ago
I usually keep a minimal Windows partition on my machines by reducing the Windows install that comes with my machines down to 100 gig or even less. But over the last few years, the Windows 10 and Windows 11 installations are being booted occasionally merely to update the Windows itself. More and more I'm considering that to be a waste of time, because I don't use Win 10 or Win 11 for anything practical. I only use Win 7 when I do use Windows. It's probably time to blow away those Win 10 and Win 11 partitions entirely, I think.
hulitu 2y ago
> Microsoft's full-screen reminders – upgrade to Windows 11 are back Even if you filter *.microsoft.com and other domains in firewall ?

33 points by nehagup 2y ago

Too bad Linux still can't offer a desktop alternative that is widely acceptable. Personally, I am contemplating moving to a server version of Windows on my desktop. This AI nonsense looks like just a privacy invasion scheme.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
rav3ndust 2y ago
just out of curiosity, what's wrong with the more 'traditional' Linux desktops, such as Plasma or Cinnamon?
- jqpabc123 2y ago
  To find the answer, try to convince a large number of people/businesses to use one of them.
- hot_gril 2y ago
  A lot of the issue is that you were able to name more than one, and that was without mentioning Gnome or XFCE
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    I think that's the great thing about Linux. Something like gnome is so closed down that it couldn't be for everyone. I tried using a ton of plugins to make it workable but then things break with every update.
    - hot_gril 2y ago
      If Gnome doesn't work for everyone, what they had to do was make it work. There has to be a way. The vast majority of the market is using Windows and Mac, and somehow both have avoided the need for multiple separate DEs.
      - wkat4242 2y ago
        I actually moved away from Mac because it's so opinionated just like gnome. But what's the problem with having choice?
        hot_gril 2y ago
        It adds complexity, especially for new users and even more for corporations. There's maintenance burden as different DEs fall out of favor, things become incompatible, and you have to migrate. Even sticking to one Linux distro, the default DE can change across versions. If you want to troubleshoot online, you can't Google "how to do X in GNU/Linux," you have to specify the DE and version too. Vs with Mac or Windows it's quite clear what you're using and how you get help for it. Most people don't even think that far though, they just want a name brand they can trust and understand. So the most popular desktop Linux is probably ChromeOS.
        wkat4242 2y ago
        > how to do X in GNU/Linux That's because GNU/Linux isn't an OS. The distributions are distinct OSes. They just have a lot in common. > It adds complexity, especially for new users and even more for corporations. There's maintenance burden as different DEs fall out of favor, things become incompatible, and you have to migrate. Corporations can easily mandate whatever distro and DE they please on their internal systems. Not an issue. The maintenance burden is on the distros and they can choose which DEs they support. They don't have to offer them all. In fact some distros come with a single DE only. I know the wishful thinking that Linux would be a single system that would make it big with consumers. But if that happens, people that love Linux now will absolutely hate it. It will be unrecognisable. All the power and control will be gone because consumers don't want that. They must want to pay someone and trust them. Case in point: ChromeOS. It's exactly that: Linux for the masses. How many Linux fans actually use that because it's Linux?
  - rav3ndust 2y ago
    i mentioned the two I thought people moving from windows would be most comfy with. for them, taskbar on bottom + 'start' menu = "neat, i already know how to use this!" personally, i use i3/sway tiling window managers, and also keep gnome around if i want a full desktop. personally, i love the amount of choice we have in the gnu/linux world. if something doesn't work for you, you can select from so many other options. "but...but...fragmentation! those guys working on cinnamon/mate/etc should just join gnome or kde and make The One True Desktop!" eh. i don't buy this line of thinking.
    - hot_gril 2y ago
      There are plenty of informally agreed-upon defaults in the GNU/Linux world. For instance almost everyone uses Bash, Git is the dominant version control, and the default browser is usually Firefox-based. This doesn't mean alternatives shouldn't exist, but they aren't neck and neck. Somehow no DE has won yet, and that's a serious usability problem.
      - rav3ndust 2y ago
        i'd say, in a way, we have 'informally' agreed upon a default desktop. the flagship edition of ubuntu? GNOME. the flagship edition of fedora? GNOME. RHEL? GNOME. installing debian with its defaults? GNOME. while KDE ships on a few distros by default, and Mint ships with Cinnamon as its flagship, by-and-large, GNOME is what you're gonna get from your "major" distributions.
- cypress66 2y ago
  Most distros can't even recover from a shutdown while updating (windows handles it since Vista).
  - sorbusherra 2y ago
    what do you mean?
  - fffrantz 2y ago
    That's why using immutable distros is awesome. Worst case scenario, you can boot the previous version. I've been using Fedora Silverblue for a while and never got a borked upgrade. It's not without its own flaws, but if you can live with mostly flatpak apps, it's a pretty compelling package.
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Same with FreeBSD with ZFS on root. Bectl makes an automatic snapshot every time. Not even any need to deal with an immutable OS.
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    Yeah but shutdown while updating is a lot less likely when the OS isn't forcing updates.
  - rav3ndust 2y ago
    on nixOS, if something borks, i can do a system rollback right from my bootscreen. easy-peasy. on debian, i can create system backups/snapshots via timeshift and restore them if something breaks.
  - simonblack 2y ago
    It's extremely rare that any modern journalling filesystem (Windows, Linux, MacOS) can't recover from an unscheduled shutdown these days.
  - type0 2y ago
    Funny you say this, my windows can't seem to recover from updating. Several times it has been stuck for more than one hour at which point I yank the power and try updating some other time. Even the most slower linux distros update in minutes and never failed me for more than a decade.
hxii 2y ago
My biggest issue is gaming, as anytime I try doing anything with Proton I find myself screwing around with it too much which defeats the purpose IMO. Otherwise I would’ve switched long ago, as at the very least the development environment is much nicer in Linux.
wkat4242 2y ago
I really like plasma. But above all I love that there is choice. I could never deal with gnome 3. If Linux were to pick that as the one standard desktop I just would leave the platform.
- petre 2y ago
  I moved from a Mac to Gnome 3 and think it's fine, at least compared to MacOS or Windows.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    I can imagine, but I moved away from macOS precisely because I found it too opinionated. It was actually much better in the past, when it was more of a Unix with a fancy GUI bolted on. These days it's becoming more like iOS, "Trust us, we know better than you how things should work, you must use it like we intended". That's not how I am. I have very strong ideas on how my computer should work. When I look at Gnome I see the exact same ("you're using it wrong") attitude in the developers. That will never fly for me. That's why I love KDE because they embrace choice. The thing is that even with KDE my desktop is quite heavily modified. I use a 3x3 desktop grid with fullsize windows and I remapped the keys on the numpad to be quick desktop selectors without modifier keys and added other quick keys for tab shifting and window to desktop reassignment, so I can control most things fully with the keyboard. Also remapped other things like KDE's Activities for even more flexibility. Also I modified the look and feel very heavily. But I didn't need a single plugin for KDE at all to make this possible! Every time I want to do something outlandish I look around and there is a setting for it. It's amazing. For Gnome (yes I did use it at one stage) I needed a bunch of plugins to do even the most simple things like make the window toolbars not so insanely big, to put virtual desktops in a grid, to add a dock etc. These are some things I used to do in macOS but they removed for example the ability to put virtual desktops in a grid (they are now in a row only) and they added this horrible full-screen option that doesn't do what I want. It felt like every update apple was trying to saw the legs of my chair from under me. I was getting so sick of it. But anyway I would never be on board the linux train if Gnome were the only option available. And even if it were to become one I (and I'm sure many others) would keep alternatives alive. I'm just not a team player. I don't get with the program.
simonblack 2y ago
Too bad Linux still can't offer a desktop alternative that is widely acceptable. Well, yes it can. But the choice of Desktop whether that be Linux, MacOS or Windows is just a matter of familiarisation. I have the exact opposite view to you: "Too bad Windows still can't offer a desktop alternative that is widely acceptable." but that is because I have been using a Linux Desktop for over 20 years. I've been using the LinuxMint MATE Desktop for about 10-11 years. If you feel happy with Windows, stick with it. It's your machine, and your choice.
- prng2021 2y ago
  I haven’t used Windows in over a decade and hate it but if you think Windows is not widely accepted for desktop users on planet Earth while Linux is, you live in an alternate reality.
  - simonblack 2y ago
    If you think Windows 11 is 'widely acceptable' then let's agree to differ. <grin>

beretguy 2y ago

Saw one yesterday for the first time.

rsolva 2y ago

These fullscreen messages are so confusing to elderly people, most of my support calls from family and friends are related to the weird and unpredictable updates and invasive popups, or the consequences from these. I have slowly been moving them, one by one, over to Fedora. I still get support calls, but not related to the OS, more like, "how do I add an attachment to this email, I forgot."

hot_gril 2y ago
Would've never thought of having a non-tech-understanding person use GNU/Linux before, but nowadays I think Windows has managed to close the gap on its own by becoming horrible. Though there are other options like iPad or Chromebook.
- Delk 2y ago
  If they're non-tech-understanding enough, it might not matter at all. Someone who's oblivious enough may use the computer as more of an appliance (plus web). I had my ageing parents set up with a Linux desktop for some years in the past. I just -pre-configured everything they'd likely have needed. Browser, email, instant messaging (as it was at the time), a photos app, possibly something else I'm forgetting. It's the somewhat tech-savvy (or at least somewhat tech-independent) for whom such a transition might be the most trouble. (And, of course, those people who use specialized applications or hardware for which support may not be available, or who use workflows that require going somewhat below the "appliance" level and which could require significant relearning.)
  - hot_gril 2y ago
    I agree that the semi-power-user category is the most problematic, but my grandma wasn't there. More like, so non-tech-savvy that she accidentally clicked buttons or hit shortcuts for power users, messing things up in ways she couldn't fix. Like, she deleted the Safari address bar and installed 10 malicious Chrome extensions. Used her mouse upside-down for a while once. GNU/Linux actually might've been best because it's harder to do anything in it. Chromebook wasn't an option cause the screens are too small, and idk if Chromeboxes were viable back then (~2015). She used to use Windows, which was an unmitigated disaster with viruses.

nailer 2y ago

I tried to read this article attempting to find any instance of the aforementioned Full screen reminder and about 10 images in I gave up.

wdb 2y ago

I think I just read a news article about Windows advertising about the many notifications on Macs?

Havoc 2y ago

They're increasingly becoming UX hostile. Also, what's up with the random "welcome to your new device, lets set everything up". Seen that about 4 times already on my current W11 install.

simonblack 2y ago

I usually keep a minimal Windows partition on my machines by reducing the Windows install that comes with my machines down to 100 gig or even less. But over the last few years, the Windows 10 and Windows 11 installations are being booted occasionally merely to update the Windows itself. More and more I'm considering that to be a waste of time, because I don't use Win 10 or Win 11 for anything practical. I only use Win 7 when I do use Windows. It's probably time to blow away those Win 10 and Win 11 partitions entirely, I think.

hulitu 2y ago

> Microsoft's full-screen reminders – upgrade to Windows 11 are back Even if you filter *.microsoft.com and other domains in firewall ?