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I genuinely don’t understand this opinion. Israel was viscously attacked unprovoked (regardless what you think of the history of the two orgs) by the organizat

I genuinely don’t understand this opinion. Israel was viscously attacked unprovoked (regardless what you think of the history of the two orgs) by the organization that governs the province. They’re states goal is to demilitarize the area while their enemy insists on playing out the war in highly populated urban areas. This isn’t a guerilla war either, it’s the actual official government party. One who has actively promised sequels of the attack. What would you do in such a situation?

input_sh 2y ago
[flagged]
- XajniN 2y ago
  All sides in the Bosnian war (3-4 of them) did their best to save the lives of their civilians (not so much the civilians from the other sides, but Bosnia is sparsely populated). Hamas aims to get as many as possible civilians killed.
  - throw310822 2y ago
    Don't you think that it's strange that Hamas, aiming to kill as many civilians as possible, on October 7th killed exactly the same proportion of civilians to military as Israel is doing in Gaza?
    - XajniN 2y ago
      No.
- tptacek 2y ago
  It's a small fraction of the death tolls in Syria and Yemen, and, of course, in Afghanistan.
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    It is the deadliest ongoing conflict in 2024 and 2nd deadliest in 2023.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    Those aren't comparable in the slightest. They involved large numbers of deaths on both sides of the equation which isn't the case here.
    - mhb 2y ago
      That's not what proportionality means.
  - input_sh 2y ago
    To reach Yemen figures Israel would have to kill >20% of everyone in Gaza. Bosnia's pre-war population (4.2 million) is far more comparable to Gaza's (2.4 million), that's why I picked it.
    - saintkaye 2y ago
      The other two were not close to as urban conflicts, calling this apples to apples is not rooted in intellectual honesty.
      - input_sh 2y ago
        Of course it's not apples to apples, no two conflicts are ever gonna be exactly the same. Can you find me a better comparison?
- saintkaye 2y ago
  Thanks for responding. The numbers were halved and the total number dosent account the enlistment age is 15. Secondarily, what do you when the enemy is using that expectation as piece of leverage to make it practically impossible to strike more surgically. I’m not the smartest, but I seems like you’re saying that if one side uses their population as attack deterrents and shields that it’s incumbent on the other side to comply?
  - KittenInABox 2y ago
    I think, if what you are saying is true, then Israeli leadership can simply explain themselves as such in court (surrender themselves to the ICC warrant) and be proclaimed not guilty.
    - YZF 2y ago
      If Israel's explanations were accepted then there wouldn't be a court case. It's unclear how justice can be done here and what's the standard of evidence. The UN just made a huge change to their accounting blaming "the fog of war" which puts their numbers much more in line with what Israel was saying. There is no independent body reporting numbers, they're either coming from the government of Gaza, i.e. Hamas, or they're coming from Israel. It's just a political circus/war of public opinion.
      - dragonwriter 2y ago
        > If Israel's explanations were accepted then there wouldn't be a court case The explanations to be accepted by the court would have to be presented as evidence at trial, which would require their to be a court case. Yes, if their explanations were accepted as conclusive by the prosecutor there wouldn't be a court case, but the prosecutor isn't the final decisionmaker for the court. > The UN just made a huge change to their accounting blaming "the fog of war" which puts their numbers much more in line with what Israel was saying. While the details of the charges asked for, beyond their titles, have not been laid out, I don't think the numerical counts that have been adjusted have much bearing on any of them.
- ars 2y ago
  > to not kill 35 thousand civilians in the process. The current best estimates are for 15 to 20 thousand civilians. When you write 35 thousand you are showing you believe Hamas propaganda.
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    You're correct, they only killed maybe 10000 children instead of 20000. I guess the bar is at like 15000 children? If Israel goes above that then they are bad, until the goalpost is moved again.
  - input_sh 2y ago
    Does that make it any better!? That's still comparable to a small town or a large arena completely wiped away from the face of the earth. Not because they were Hamas, but because they were near Hamas.
    - tptacek 2y ago
      Reasonable people will point out that this "near Hamas" thing is the result of a deliberate strategy by Hamas to ensure that reprisal strikes preferentially spill the blood of the civilians Hamas ostensibly represents, while shielding and supplying the Hamas combatants who provoked the strikes in the first place. To me, the more powerful argument is just that any meaningful military purpose to massed attacks in Gaza have now been used up; much of Hamas' infrastructure, along with the majority of their leadership cadre, have been destroyed. Hamas still "exists", and it could re-form, but so could any other militant organization at this point. The losses Hamas have taken probably exceed those of other state military actors who have decisively lost wars in the past. Further large-scale strikes look increasingly performative. It was hard to justify a lot of what Israel did even when Hamas had 15 combat-ready brigades and was vowing to repeat October 7th. It seems impossible to justify it now. (People definitely disagree with me on this point! It's what I believe but fuck if I know with any certainty how true it is.)
      - ars 2y ago
        > Further large-scale strikes look increasingly performative. Israel is not doing large scale strikes in most of Gaza, except Raffa. It was in the news a few weeks ago that Israel withdrew most of their troops from Gaza. They have in fact switched to limited strikes. But they're going to finish the job in Raffa first, in particular they want to destroy tunnels - especially tunnels going into Egypt. After that the PA is going to try to take over. And Israel will "protest" the whole time like the Br'er Rabbit. The PA can't look like Israel helped them take the area. Both the PA and Israel want the PA in Gaza, but neither can say it out loud. The whole "Israel has no day after plan" thing is just a show. There's a reason Biden stopped complaining about it.
boppo1 2y ago
As a fairly emotionally disinterested party: greater specificity of strikes, focus on Hamas leadership. It seems to me that Israel (and the west more generally) will be facing a generation of motivated terrorists in about 15-20 years, as the young people who went through this come of age.
- tomp 2y ago
  Not if they win decisively and eradicate not just the terrorists, but the terrorist indoctrination as well. Note: there hasn't been a "generation of motivated terrorists" coming out of Japan and Germany after WWII, those populations were entirely subdued.
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    Having your parents, or your children, “eradicated” by someone is a powerful motivator.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Having your parents, or your children, “eradicated” by someone is a powerful motivator But again, Japanese and Germans aren’t blowing up Americans and Indians aren’t blowing up London. Claiming this will create more terrorists is saying the Palestinians are irredeemably violent. I don’t think that’s right.
      - semi-extrinsic 2y ago
        Both Japan and Germany were left with their home countries and were given substantial aid to rebuild after the war. That aid was given by their former enemies. Unfortunately I don't see it as very likely that Israel will give back all the territory in Gaza and provide aid to the Palestinians to rebuild.
        saintkaye 2y ago
        Oh my this is not true
zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
As the other person stated, more targeted attacks. Israel is well known for their assassinations of Iranians. Why not Palestinians too?
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  I promise you, Israel does plenty of targeted assassinations in Palestine. For instance [0] (mildly graphic, shots are fired by Israeli assassination squad into car) - stuff like this is very common in WB and now Gaza. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17p7mfx/better_footage_of_the_israeli_special_forces/?force_seo=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17p7mfx/bett...
threeseed 2y ago
> Israel was viscously attacked unprovoked Unprovoked is a stretch. Settlers have been given free rein to commit terror acts all throughout the Palestinian Territories. And Hamas has been propped up by the Netanyahu government for years.
- amluto 2y ago
  > Settlers have been given free rein to commit terror acts all throughout the Palestinian Territories. Not quite: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_G... This is not to say that Israel permitted Gaza to have any reasonable sort of economic development (as a simple example, it’s effectively a country with two not-very-open land borders and no port, which surely made trade rather challenging). If you want an analogy, imagine roughly the population of San Francisco plus San Mateo County, but with under half the land area, hostile relations and extremely limited travel across the land border with Santa Clara County and points South, with no bridges and no port. Throw in a near-complete dependency on Santa Clara for water and electricity, and nowhere near enough agriculture. (At least San Mateo County has a decent amount of farming to the West.) Take out the hot tech scene as well, and the economic situation would not be awesome.
- YZF 2y ago
  Palestinians in Gaza were not provoked and there were no settlers in the Gaza strip. Not sure about your last statement there, Hamas being propped up by Netanyahu was how Israel provoked them to attack? What was the total number of Palestinians killed by Settler terrorist attacks in 2022? Do you have that handy? What was the number of Israelis killed by Palestinian terrorist attacks during that time?
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    Gaza is under military occupation by most definitions, that is provocation. 167 Palestinians and 12 Israelis in the west bank. All deaths, not just by settlers etc.
    - 2y ago
Hikikomori 2y ago
Unprovoked, really? 60% of homes destroyed, 80% of schools, all universities, 31/35 hospitals. What Israel [0] could have done was to not create this situation in the first place, but their goal was never solve it anyway. [0] I mean the current government in power and right wing extremist settlers
- saintkaye 2y ago
  They killed and raped kids at a concert. If calling that unprovoked terror is too far across the aisle, it’s hard to imagine an intellectually honest conversation, no?
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    Its not unprovoked because its an ongoing conflict and occupation, it cannot be viewed in isolation no matter how horrible it was.
    - saintkaye 2y ago
      What? They targeted innocents at a music festival, the people you’re talking about are dying during war time in the actual theatre of war. Can you seriously not agree that the target and method of killing is very different?
- YZF 2y ago
  I believe we're talking about the provocation for the Oct 7th attacks and you are giving us the outcome of the war that was a result of that attack? Is there time travel involved here? Israel withdrew from Gaza. Is your proposal that Israel should not have withdrawn to "not create the situation in the first place"? Or re-taken Gaza when Hamas took it over from Fatah by force in 2007 after winning the elections?
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    The provocation is the continued blockade and military occupation of Gaza, as that is what most consider it to be. With the exception of the US and Israel of course. Not to mention the continuation of apartheid in Israel itself and expansion of settlements in the west bank. This situation was created because Netanyahu has supported Hamas for a long time, even before 2005, as a classic divide and conquer strategy, to not allow PA to control both territories. But the US also helped as Bush forced elections early when PA had a reputation of being corrupt, and when they lost the election they tried to get PA to do a coup and Hamas kicked them out from Gaza.
rusk 2y ago
Well if you believe it was unprovoked then I can understand why this point of view would be so confusing.
throw310822 2y ago
I don't understand why you say "unprovoked". Gaza has been under occupation for decades (yes, it's technically an occupation, regardless of whether there are settlers or not). It's been periodically bombed, each time with as many victims as an October 7th. It's been under a complete blockade for 16 years. The fact that everything was fine in Israel on October 6th doesn't mean that there was a peace- it just means that they weren't expecting their victims to be able to fight back. > What would you do in such a situation? The situation is that Israel is an oppressor and an occupier, so what should it do? Well, first of all it should have made different choices in the past, honest and fair and peaceful choices. Which it didn't make, and it's its fault. But it's never too late. It should have made honest, fair and peaceful choices also in this occasion- mourned its deads, vowed to bring those responsible to justice, and engaged with Palestinian counterparts to withdraw within the 1967 borders and promote the birth of a Palestinian state. Of course, it didn't do any of those things. It did exactly what Hamas expected.
- tptacek 2y ago
  And, as a result, Hamas has been gone from a rent-extracting governing authority with 16 combat-effective brigades, deep connections to the IRGC, and ongoing funding not just from the Gulf States but from Israel itself(!) to an international pariah with military leadership hiding in tunnels and its last 2 allegedly combat-effective brigades preparing to make a valiant last stand behind a wall of civilian refugees in Rafah. Yes: Israel did exactly what Hamas expected. The problem for Hamas is twofold: * Hamas thought the urban combat to root them out of Gaza City and Khan Younis would be a Vietnam-scale bloodbath that would tie the IDF up indefinitely until they were forced to make a truce. * Hamas's messianic nutbag leader genuinely believed that he was ushering in the end of days, and that the IRGC's other assets would immediately commit to full scale combat operations against the IDF. Instead: Hezbollah noped the hell out, and Iran launched a large scale drone attack that ended up providing a Boeing and Lockheed-style fireworks display in which other Arab states, even as Israel was massacring Palestinian civilians, pitched in to help. Then Iran "declared the matter resolved". Gulp. Sometimes, if only strategically, it makes sense to do what your enemy wants you to, because your enemy is stupid.
  - 2y ago
Aerbil313 2y ago
> Israel was viscously attacked unprovoked Are you denying Nakba with 'unprovoked'? I recommend you read through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_denial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_denial
- tptacek 2y ago
  Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

input_sh 2y ago

[flagged]

XajniN 2y ago
All sides in the Bosnian war (3-4 of them) did their best to save the lives of their civilians (not so much the civilians from the other sides, but Bosnia is sparsely populated). Hamas aims to get as many as possible civilians killed.
- throw310822 2y ago
  Don't you think that it's strange that Hamas, aiming to kill as many civilians as possible, on October 7th killed exactly the same proportion of civilians to military as Israel is doing in Gaza?
  - XajniN 2y ago
    No.
tptacek 2y ago
It's a small fraction of the death tolls in Syria and Yemen, and, of course, in Afghanistan.
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  It is the deadliest ongoing conflict in 2024 and 2nd deadliest in 2023.
- threeseed 2y ago
  Those aren't comparable in the slightest. They involved large numbers of deaths on both sides of the equation which isn't the case here.
  - mhb 2y ago
    That's not what proportionality means.
- input_sh 2y ago
  To reach Yemen figures Israel would have to kill >20% of everyone in Gaza. Bosnia's pre-war population (4.2 million) is far more comparable to Gaza's (2.4 million), that's why I picked it.
  - saintkaye 2y ago
    The other two were not close to as urban conflicts, calling this apples to apples is not rooted in intellectual honesty.
    - input_sh 2y ago
      Of course it's not apples to apples, no two conflicts are ever gonna be exactly the same. Can you find me a better comparison?
saintkaye 2y ago
Thanks for responding. The numbers were halved and the total number dosent account the enlistment age is 15. Secondarily, what do you when the enemy is using that expectation as piece of leverage to make it practically impossible to strike more surgically. I’m not the smartest, but I seems like you’re saying that if one side uses their population as attack deterrents and shields that it’s incumbent on the other side to comply?
- KittenInABox 2y ago
  I think, if what you are saying is true, then Israeli leadership can simply explain themselves as such in court (surrender themselves to the ICC warrant) and be proclaimed not guilty.
  - YZF 2y ago
    If Israel's explanations were accepted then there wouldn't be a court case. It's unclear how justice can be done here and what's the standard of evidence. The UN just made a huge change to their accounting blaming "the fog of war" which puts their numbers much more in line with what Israel was saying. There is no independent body reporting numbers, they're either coming from the government of Gaza, i.e. Hamas, or they're coming from Israel. It's just a political circus/war of public opinion.
    - dragonwriter 2y ago
      > If Israel's explanations were accepted then there wouldn't be a court case The explanations to be accepted by the court would have to be presented as evidence at trial, which would require their to be a court case. Yes, if their explanations were accepted as conclusive by the prosecutor there wouldn't be a court case, but the prosecutor isn't the final decisionmaker for the court. > The UN just made a huge change to their accounting blaming "the fog of war" which puts their numbers much more in line with what Israel was saying. While the details of the charges asked for, beyond their titles, have not been laid out, I don't think the numerical counts that have been adjusted have much bearing on any of them.
ars 2y ago
> to not kill 35 thousand civilians in the process. The current best estimates are for 15 to 20 thousand civilians. When you write 35 thousand you are showing you believe Hamas propaganda.
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  You're correct, they only killed maybe 10000 children instead of 20000. I guess the bar is at like 15000 children? If Israel goes above that then they are bad, until the goalpost is moved again.
- input_sh 2y ago
  Does that make it any better!? That's still comparable to a small town or a large arena completely wiped away from the face of the earth. Not because they were Hamas, but because they were near Hamas.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    Reasonable people will point out that this "near Hamas" thing is the result of a deliberate strategy by Hamas to ensure that reprisal strikes preferentially spill the blood of the civilians Hamas ostensibly represents, while shielding and supplying the Hamas combatants who provoked the strikes in the first place. To me, the more powerful argument is just that any meaningful military purpose to massed attacks in Gaza have now been used up; much of Hamas' infrastructure, along with the majority of their leadership cadre, have been destroyed. Hamas still "exists", and it could re-form, but so could any other militant organization at this point. The losses Hamas have taken probably exceed those of other state military actors who have decisively lost wars in the past. Further large-scale strikes look increasingly performative. It was hard to justify a lot of what Israel did even when Hamas had 15 combat-ready brigades and was vowing to repeat October 7th. It seems impossible to justify it now. (People definitely disagree with me on this point! It's what I believe but fuck if I know with any certainty how true it is.)
    - ars 2y ago
      > Further large-scale strikes look increasingly performative. Israel is not doing large scale strikes in most of Gaza, except Raffa. It was in the news a few weeks ago that Israel withdrew most of their troops from Gaza. They have in fact switched to limited strikes. But they're going to finish the job in Raffa first, in particular they want to destroy tunnels - especially tunnels going into Egypt. After that the PA is going to try to take over. And Israel will "protest" the whole time like the Br'er Rabbit. The PA can't look like Israel helped them take the area. Both the PA and Israel want the PA in Gaza, but neither can say it out loud. The whole "Israel has no day after plan" thing is just a show. There's a reason Biden stopped complaining about it.

boppo1 2y ago

As a fairly emotionally disinterested party: greater specificity of strikes, focus on Hamas leadership. It seems to me that Israel (and the west more generally) will be facing a generation of motivated terrorists in about 15-20 years, as the young people who went through this come of age.

tomp 2y ago
Not if they win decisively and eradicate not just the terrorists, but the terrorist indoctrination as well. Note: there hasn't been a "generation of motivated terrorists" coming out of Japan and Germany after WWII, those populations were entirely subdued.
- rbanffy 2y ago
  Having your parents, or your children, “eradicated” by someone is a powerful motivator.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Having your parents, or your children, “eradicated” by someone is a powerful motivator But again, Japanese and Germans aren’t blowing up Americans and Indians aren’t blowing up London. Claiming this will create more terrorists is saying the Palestinians are irredeemably violent. I don’t think that’s right.
    - semi-extrinsic 2y ago
      Both Japan and Germany were left with their home countries and were given substantial aid to rebuild after the war. That aid was given by their former enemies. Unfortunately I don't see it as very likely that Israel will give back all the territory in Gaza and provide aid to the Palestinians to rebuild.
      - saintkaye 2y ago
        Oh my this is not true

zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago

As the other person stated, more targeted attacks. Israel is well known for their assassinations of Iranians. Why not Palestinians too?

whimsicalism 2y ago
I promise you, Israel does plenty of targeted assassinations in Palestine. For instance [0] (mildly graphic, shots are fired by Israeli assassination squad into car) - stuff like this is very common in WB and now Gaza. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17p7mfx/better_footage_of_the_israeli_special_forces/?force_seo=1 https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17p7mfx/bett...

threeseed 2y ago

> Israel was viscously attacked unprovoked Unprovoked is a stretch. Settlers have been given free rein to commit terror acts all throughout the Palestinian Territories. And Hamas has been propped up by the Netanyahu government for years.

amluto 2y ago
> Settlers have been given free rein to commit terror acts all throughout the Palestinian Territories. Not quite: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_Gaza https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_disengagement_from_G... This is not to say that Israel permitted Gaza to have any reasonable sort of economic development (as a simple example, it’s effectively a country with two not-very-open land borders and no port, which surely made trade rather challenging). If you want an analogy, imagine roughly the population of San Francisco plus San Mateo County, but with under half the land area, hostile relations and extremely limited travel across the land border with Santa Clara County and points South, with no bridges and no port. Throw in a near-complete dependency on Santa Clara for water and electricity, and nowhere near enough agriculture. (At least San Mateo County has a decent amount of farming to the West.) Take out the hot tech scene as well, and the economic situation would not be awesome.
YZF 2y ago
Palestinians in Gaza were not provoked and there were no settlers in the Gaza strip. Not sure about your last statement there, Hamas being propped up by Netanyahu was how Israel provoked them to attack? What was the total number of Palestinians killed by Settler terrorist attacks in 2022? Do you have that handy? What was the number of Israelis killed by Palestinian terrorist attacks during that time?
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  Gaza is under military occupation by most definitions, that is provocation. 167 Palestinians and 12 Israelis in the west bank. All deaths, not just by settlers etc.
  - 2y ago

Hikikomori 2y ago

Unprovoked, really? 60% of homes destroyed, 80% of schools, all universities, 31/35 hospitals. What Israel [0] could have done was to not create this situation in the first place, but their goal was never solve it anyway. [0] I mean the current government in power and right wing extremist settlers

saintkaye 2y ago
They killed and raped kids at a concert. If calling that unprovoked terror is too far across the aisle, it’s hard to imagine an intellectually honest conversation, no?
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  Its not unprovoked because its an ongoing conflict and occupation, it cannot be viewed in isolation no matter how horrible it was.
  - saintkaye 2y ago
    What? They targeted innocents at a music festival, the people you’re talking about are dying during war time in the actual theatre of war. Can you seriously not agree that the target and method of killing is very different?
YZF 2y ago
I believe we're talking about the provocation for the Oct 7th attacks and you are giving us the outcome of the war that was a result of that attack? Is there time travel involved here? Israel withdrew from Gaza. Is your proposal that Israel should not have withdrawn to "not create the situation in the first place"? Or re-taken Gaza when Hamas took it over from Fatah by force in 2007 after winning the elections?
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  The provocation is the continued blockade and military occupation of Gaza, as that is what most consider it to be. With the exception of the US and Israel of course. Not to mention the continuation of apartheid in Israel itself and expansion of settlements in the west bank. This situation was created because Netanyahu has supported Hamas for a long time, even before 2005, as a classic divide and conquer strategy, to not allow PA to control both territories. But the US also helped as Bush forced elections early when PA had a reputation of being corrupt, and when they lost the election they tried to get PA to do a coup and Hamas kicked them out from Gaza.

rusk 2y ago

Well if you believe it was unprovoked then I can understand why this point of view would be so confusing.

throw310822 2y ago

I don't understand why you say "unprovoked". Gaza has been under occupation for decades (yes, it's technically an occupation, regardless of whether there are settlers or not). It's been periodically bombed, each time with as many victims as an October 7th. It's been under a complete blockade for 16 years. The fact that everything was fine in Israel on October 6th doesn't mean that there was a peace- it just means that they weren't expecting their victims to be able to fight back. > What would you do in such a situation? The situation is that Israel is an oppressor and an occupier, so what should it do? Well, first of all it should have made different choices in the past, honest and fair and peaceful choices. Which it didn't make, and it's its fault. But it's never too late. It should have made honest, fair and peaceful choices also in this occasion- mourned its deads, vowed to bring those responsible to justice, and engaged with Palestinian counterparts to withdraw within the 1967 borders and promote the birth of a Palestinian state. Of course, it didn't do any of those things. It did exactly what Hamas expected.

tptacek 2y ago
And, as a result, Hamas has been gone from a rent-extracting governing authority with 16 combat-effective brigades, deep connections to the IRGC, and ongoing funding not just from the Gulf States but from Israel itself(!) to an international pariah with military leadership hiding in tunnels and its last 2 allegedly combat-effective brigades preparing to make a valiant last stand behind a wall of civilian refugees in Rafah. Yes: Israel did exactly what Hamas expected. The problem for Hamas is twofold: * Hamas thought the urban combat to root them out of Gaza City and Khan Younis would be a Vietnam-scale bloodbath that would tie the IDF up indefinitely until they were forced to make a truce. * Hamas's messianic nutbag leader genuinely believed that he was ushering in the end of days, and that the IRGC's other assets would immediately commit to full scale combat operations against the IDF. Instead: Hezbollah noped the hell out, and Iran launched a large scale drone attack that ended up providing a Boeing and Lockheed-style fireworks display in which other Arab states, even as Israel was massacring Palestinian civilians, pitched in to help. Then Iran "declared the matter resolved". Gulp. Sometimes, if only strategically, it makes sense to do what your enemy wants you to, because your enemy is stupid.
- 2y ago

Aerbil313 2y ago

> Israel was viscously attacked unprovoked Are you denying Nakba with 'unprovoked'? I recommend you read through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_denial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_denial

tptacek 2y ago
Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html