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Why do you think private healthcare would give you a better answer? You accepted the first answer the jniversal healthcare system gave you. Do you have any reas

Why do you think private healthcare would give you a better answer? You accepted the first answer the jniversal healthcare system gave you. Do you have any reason to believe you wouldn't accept that answer if given by a private clinic?

self_awareness 2y ago
Money + private healthcare gives you options. You can go to different doctors several times a week to get a possibly different diagnosis. It costs money, so having it is a prerequisite. But giving money acts as a motivator here, because doctors want money. In "universal healthcare", you can only go to a doctor once, or two times a year. Because the waiting queues are so long sometimes. And even if you change the doctor, the previous diagnosis will be in the same system, so if the doctor will get lazy, they'll just repeat the diagnosis. There's no motivator here (well, during communist times, a popular form of motivator was a "present" for doctor, so people found ways to motivate doctors).
- ido 2y ago
  I live in Germany, and had cancer, and my experience with the public health system is completely different from yours. I got prompt treatment and asked for second and third opinions (which I also got at short notice, from different doctors at different hospitals) before treatment. I know from friends there are places where the public health system is so underfunded (e.g. Bulgaria) that they basically had to get private health insurance to get good treatment. In other words YMMV.
  - self_awareness 2y ago
    Good for you I guess. But people who live in better environment shouldn't impose a world view for people who live in worse environments. They should at least have a decency of understanding what is their privilege, and that there are people who don't have it. Meanwhile, on HN, the only reaction I can count for is a downvote for telling my life experience. That's why I love HN, you often disappoint, correcting my life expectations closer to reality :heart: !
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      I don't think you are getting downvoted for sharing your life experience. You're getting it for projecting that single experience onto an entire institution, without evidence that your single experience is representative.
      - self_awareness 2y ago
        Everyone in my whole country has similar experience.
    - ido 2y ago
      I’m not imposing anything, I’m suggesting you’re (probably) suffering from a specific shitty healthcare system rather than your implied conclusion that universal health care systems are inherently shitty. In fact I immigrated to Germany from a country with shittier (underfunded) health care system myself so I can very much relate.
- badpun 2y ago
  1. What you're describing seems to be a criminally underfunded universal healthcare. In properly funded ones, you aren't limited to one or two visits to a doctor a year. 2. Public healthcare does not prohibit people from using private doctors. People who can afford to go to the private doctor can still do it. Whereas people who can't (or can, but just choose not to), get their lifes saved by the state. 3. Profit motive is deeply flawed in all businesses, but it's especially problematic in something as critical as healthcare. If the doctors are primarily driven by money and not by doing their job properly, they'll fleece their customers. It's not uncommon among dentists (who are largely privatised even across Europe) to make up expensive, unnecessary procedures so that they can buy their next Porsche or a house on the Spanish coast etc.
  - self_awareness 2y ago
    1. It's not about some rule that limits the number of visits, it's about that you can't physically do it, because an appointment for urologist made today will get you an appointment on october. Because the queues are so long, people make appointments even if they don't need it, and then don't show up. This makes queues even longer. 2. Yes, public healthcare does not prohibit from using the private sector, fortunately. But the amount of money I pay for the "universal free public healthcare" every month dwarfs my expenses to private sector. It's like I'm paying for a really expensive service, and I can use it twice a year with questionable effects. So not only public healthcare is extremely expensive for me, I need to pay above that to use the private sector. I understand what the money is for -- so that other people can use it that are less fortunate than me. So they kind of rely on my sacrifice, on my life choices, my risk. 3. Maybe it's flawed, but it's the reality. Trying to change that isn't really my fight. If you know how to fix that then by all means go ahead. I need to spend my energy elsewhere.
    - SJC_Hacker 2y ago
      > 1. It's not about some rule that limits the number of visits, it's about that you can't physically do it, because an appointment for urologist made today will get you an appointment on october. Because the queues are so long, people make appointments even if they don't need it, and then don't show up. This makes queues even longer. This was also my experience with the private health care system as well. Alot has to do with the lack of specialists in certain fields. This is not an easy problem to fix because there are only so many residency slots available, and its hard to increase them. The best you can do is poach from other countries.

self_awareness 2y ago

Money + private healthcare gives you options. You can go to different doctors several times a week to get a possibly different diagnosis. It costs money, so having it is a prerequisite. But giving money acts as a motivator here, because doctors want money. In "universal healthcare", you can only go to a doctor once, or two times a year. Because the waiting queues are so long sometimes. And even if you change the doctor, the previous diagnosis will be in the same system, so if the doctor will get lazy, they'll just repeat the diagnosis. There's no motivator here (well, during communist times, a popular form of motivator was a "present" for doctor, so people found ways to motivate doctors).

ido 2y ago
I live in Germany, and had cancer, and my experience with the public health system is completely different from yours. I got prompt treatment and asked for second and third opinions (which I also got at short notice, from different doctors at different hospitals) before treatment. I know from friends there are places where the public health system is so underfunded (e.g. Bulgaria) that they basically had to get private health insurance to get good treatment. In other words YMMV.
- self_awareness 2y ago
  Good for you I guess. But people who live in better environment shouldn't impose a world view for people who live in worse environments. They should at least have a decency of understanding what is their privilege, and that there are people who don't have it. Meanwhile, on HN, the only reaction I can count for is a downvote for telling my life experience. That's why I love HN, you often disappoint, correcting my life expectations closer to reality :heart: !
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    I don't think you are getting downvoted for sharing your life experience. You're getting it for projecting that single experience onto an entire institution, without evidence that your single experience is representative.
    - self_awareness 2y ago
      Everyone in my whole country has similar experience.
  - ido 2y ago
    I’m not imposing anything, I’m suggesting you’re (probably) suffering from a specific shitty healthcare system rather than your implied conclusion that universal health care systems are inherently shitty. In fact I immigrated to Germany from a country with shittier (underfunded) health care system myself so I can very much relate.
badpun 2y ago
1. What you're describing seems to be a criminally underfunded universal healthcare. In properly funded ones, you aren't limited to one or two visits to a doctor a year. 2. Public healthcare does not prohibit people from using private doctors. People who can afford to go to the private doctor can still do it. Whereas people who can't (or can, but just choose not to), get their lifes saved by the state. 3. Profit motive is deeply flawed in all businesses, but it's especially problematic in something as critical as healthcare. If the doctors are primarily driven by money and not by doing their job properly, they'll fleece their customers. It's not uncommon among dentists (who are largely privatised even across Europe) to make up expensive, unnecessary procedures so that they can buy their next Porsche or a house on the Spanish coast etc.
- self_awareness 2y ago
  1. It's not about some rule that limits the number of visits, it's about that you can't physically do it, because an appointment for urologist made today will get you an appointment on october. Because the queues are so long, people make appointments even if they don't need it, and then don't show up. This makes queues even longer. 2. Yes, public healthcare does not prohibit from using the private sector, fortunately. But the amount of money I pay for the "universal free public healthcare" every month dwarfs my expenses to private sector. It's like I'm paying for a really expensive service, and I can use it twice a year with questionable effects. So not only public healthcare is extremely expensive for me, I need to pay above that to use the private sector. I understand what the money is for -- so that other people can use it that are less fortunate than me. So they kind of rely on my sacrifice, on my life choices, my risk. 3. Maybe it's flawed, but it's the reality. Trying to change that isn't really my fight. If you know how to fix that then by all means go ahead. I need to spend my energy elsewhere.
  - SJC_Hacker 2y ago
    > 1. It's not about some rule that limits the number of visits, it's about that you can't physically do it, because an appointment for urologist made today will get you an appointment on october. Because the queues are so long, people make appointments even if they don't need it, and then don't show up. This makes queues even longer. This was also my experience with the private health care system as well. Alot has to do with the lack of specialists in certain fields. This is not an easy problem to fix because there are only so many residency slots available, and its hard to increase them. The best you can do is poach from other countries.