5 ms·

I challenge you to imagine an imaginary game or computer language, explain the rules to the LLM. It will learn and play the game (or write programs in your inve

I challenge you to imagine an imaginary game or computer language, explain the rules to the LLM. It will learn and play the game (or write programs in your invented language), although you imagined it. There was no resource to train on. Nobody knows of that game or language. LLM learns on the spot with your instructions and plays the game. I cannot understand grad school level mathematics even if you give me all the books and papers in the world. I was not formally trained in mathematics, does that make me not intelligent?

sph 2y ago
"Ability to solve novel problems" does not mean ability to solve all problems, nor to have all the knowledge in the world. A caveman can be as intelligent as you and I, even without being able to read. Not having knowledge in mathematics has no impact on your intelligence quotient.
- terminalcommand 2y ago
  I agree. But LLMs do solve novel problems in that case, you just have to explain it to them like you would have done to an intelligent caveman or me. Which novel problem can't an LLM solve? I gave the example of an imaginary game because the LLM cannot have possibly trained on it as it is imagined by one person and nobody knows how to play it.
  - latexr 2y ago
    I tried the first thing which came to mind, with GPT-4o. The problem is probably not novel, yet it failed anyway. --- User: Let’s play a game. Every time I give you a word, you separate it into its individual characters and assign a number to each letter, in order, following the Latin alphabet. So "a" is "1", "b" is "2", and so forth. You will then subtract 2 from each number, convert it back to the corresponding letter and return the new word. Did you get all that? Are you ready to start with my next word? LLM: Got it! I'm ready to start. What's your first word? User: anthropomorfic LLM: Sure! Let's break down "anthropomorfic". 1. Assign numbers to each letter: a (1), n (14), t (20), h (8), r (18), o (15), p (16), o (15), m (13), o (15), r (18), f (6), i (9), c (3) 2. Subtract 2 from each number: a (1-2=-1: Consider Zuzzer, i.e., `25`), n (14-2=12), t (20-2=18), h (8-2=6), r (18-2=16), o (15-2=13), p (16-2=14), o (15-2=13), m (13-2=11), o (15-2=13), r (18-2=16), f (6-2=4), i (9-2=7), c (3-2=1) 3. Convert them back to letters: y, l, r, f, p, m, n, m, k, m, p, d, g, y The new word is "ylrfpmnmkmpdgy". --- Looks pretty good, right? It even found a good wraparound solution for “a” (I wasn’t trying to trick it, I just didn’t think about the word too hard), though I have no clue what it means by “Consider Zuzzer”. But then you look at the last one, where it converted “c” to “y”. That’s absolutely wrong and is the easiest one any human would guess. Yet you could miss it because all the previous ones were right. Here’s a bonus. When verifying the answer, I queried Brave search for “letters of the alphabet with numbers assigned”. The AI-generated answer at the top was: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=1, K=2, L=3, M=4, N=5, O=6, P=7, Q=8, R=9, S=1, T=2, U=3, V=4, W=5, X=6, Y=7, Z=8. Which, alright, I can see the logic, but that’s not what anyone would want by asking that question.
    - terminalcommand 2y ago
      Try giving an example in your prompt :). I am sure gpt can solve it if you provided a couple of examples. Also this is not a game it is a cypher. Try specifying that as well.
    - terminalcommand 2y ago
      For argument's sake I rewrote your prompt. I think gpt 3.5 understood it on the first try: Prompt: Let’s play a cypher game. The rules of the game are as follows: 1. Imagine a numbering system where each letter of the English alphabet corresponds to a number starting with 1. For example, a corresponds to 1, b corresponds to 2, c corresponds to three. 2. When you receive a word from me, break it into individual characters. 3. Convert each character into a list of numbers by following rule #1. 4. Subtract two from each number of the list and generate a new list, if the result is lesser than 0, add 26. 5. Convert each number in the new list into a letter by following rule #1 and present me your result. Are you ready for the first word? ------- GPT: I'm ready! Go ahead and give me the word. Me: anthropomorfic GPT: Sure, let's start: a -> 1 -> 1 - 2 = 25 (z) n -> 14 -> 14 - 2 = 12 (l) t -> 20 -> 20 - 2 = 18 (r) h -> 8 -> 8 - 2 = 6 (f) r -> 18 -> 18 - 2 = 16 (p) o -> 15 -> 15 - 2 = 13 (m) p -> 16 -> 16 - 2 = 14 (n) o -> 15 -> 15 - 2 = 13 (m) m -> 13 -> 13 - 2 = 11 (k) o -> 15 -> 15 - 2 = 13 (m) r -> 18 -> 18 - 2 = 16 (p) f -> 6 -> 6 - 2 = 4 (d) i -> 9 -> 9 - 2 = 7 (g) c -> 3 -> 3 - 2 = 1 (a) So, "anthropomorfic" becomes "zlrfpmmnpmkpdmga". Your turn!
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - fireflash38 2y ago
        Isn't 25 y not z?
        latexr 2y ago
        Indeed it is. That part is a huge mess. The LLM gave the wrong number when matching with the letter, but the letter itself is correct considering the instructions, except the instructions are wrong (ironic considering this came from someone claiming everyone is doing it wrong). Step four says: > Subtract two from each number of the list and generate a new list, if the result is lesser than 0, add 26. It should be “if the result is less than 1”, not “0”.
ben-schaaf 2y ago
Huh? It's a meme that LLMs can't follow the rules of chess. Just tried tick tack toe on GPT 3.5 and not only did it pick bad moves it also failed to evaluate the win condition.
- terminalcommand 2y ago
  I disagree, if a decent LLM cannot understand it there is a problem with the prompt. Imagine someone not knowing chess and explaining it to them. Would they be able to understand it on the first try with your prompt?
  - latexr 2y ago
    > if a decent LLM cannot understand it there is a problem with the prompt. Ah, yes, the “you’re holding it wrong” argument with a dash of “No True Scotsman” so the goalposts can be moved depending on what anyone says is a “decent LLM”. Well, here’re are a few failures with GPT-3.5, GPT-4, and GPT4-o: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38304184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38304184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40368446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40368446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40368822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40368822 > Imagine someone not knowing chess and explaining it to them. Would they be able to understand it on the first try with your prompt? Chess? Probably not. Tic-tac-toe? Probably yes. And the latter was what the person you’re responding to used.
    - terminalcommand 2y ago
      But people are holding it wrong. All the prompts you sent except the last are super short queries. For a successful prompt, you introduce yourself, assign a role to the LLM to impersonate, provide background on your query, tell what you want to achieve, provide some examples. If the LLM still doesn't get it you guide further. PS: I rewrote your prompt and GPT 3.5 understood it at the first try. See my reply above to your experiment. You were using it wrong sir.
      - 2y ago

sph 2y ago

"Ability to solve novel problems" does not mean ability to solve all problems, nor to have all the knowledge in the world. A caveman can be as intelligent as you and I, even without being able to read. Not having knowledge in mathematics has no impact on your intelligence quotient.

terminalcommand 2y ago
I agree. But LLMs do solve novel problems in that case, you just have to explain it to them like you would have done to an intelligent caveman or me. Which novel problem can't an LLM solve? I gave the example of an imaginary game because the LLM cannot have possibly trained on it as it is imagined by one person and nobody knows how to play it.
- latexr 2y ago
  I tried the first thing which came to mind, with GPT-4o. The problem is probably not novel, yet it failed anyway. --- User: Let’s play a game. Every time I give you a word, you separate it into its individual characters and assign a number to each letter, in order, following the Latin alphabet. So "a" is "1", "b" is "2", and so forth. You will then subtract 2 from each number, convert it back to the corresponding letter and return the new word. Did you get all that? Are you ready to start with my next word? LLM: Got it! I'm ready to start. What's your first word? User: anthropomorfic LLM: Sure! Let's break down "anthropomorfic". 1. Assign numbers to each letter: a (1), n (14), t (20), h (8), r (18), o (15), p (16), o (15), m (13), o (15), r (18), f (6), i (9), c (3) 2. Subtract 2 from each number: a (1-2=-1: Consider Zuzzer, i.e., `25`), n (14-2=12), t (20-2=18), h (8-2=6), r (18-2=16), o (15-2=13), p (16-2=14), o (15-2=13), m (13-2=11), o (15-2=13), r (18-2=16), f (6-2=4), i (9-2=7), c (3-2=1) 3. Convert them back to letters: y, l, r, f, p, m, n, m, k, m, p, d, g, y The new word is "ylrfpmnmkmpdgy". --- Looks pretty good, right? It even found a good wraparound solution for “a” (I wasn’t trying to trick it, I just didn’t think about the word too hard), though I have no clue what it means by “Consider Zuzzer”. But then you look at the last one, where it converted “c” to “y”. That’s absolutely wrong and is the easiest one any human would guess. Yet you could miss it because all the previous ones were right. Here’s a bonus. When verifying the answer, I queried Brave search for “letters of the alphabet with numbers assigned”. The AI-generated answer at the top was: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=1, K=2, L=3, M=4, N=5, O=6, P=7, Q=8, R=9, S=1, T=2, U=3, V=4, W=5, X=6, Y=7, Z=8. Which, alright, I can see the logic, but that’s not what anyone would want by asking that question.
  - terminalcommand 2y ago
    Try giving an example in your prompt :). I am sure gpt can solve it if you provided a couple of examples. Also this is not a game it is a cypher. Try specifying that as well.
  - terminalcommand 2y ago
    For argument's sake I rewrote your prompt. I think gpt 3.5 understood it on the first try: Prompt: Let’s play a cypher game. The rules of the game are as follows: 1. Imagine a numbering system where each letter of the English alphabet corresponds to a number starting with 1. For example, a corresponds to 1, b corresponds to 2, c corresponds to three. 2. When you receive a word from me, break it into individual characters. 3. Convert each character into a list of numbers by following rule #1. 4. Subtract two from each number of the list and generate a new list, if the result is lesser than 0, add 26. 5. Convert each number in the new list into a letter by following rule #1 and present me your result. Are you ready for the first word? ------- GPT: I'm ready! Go ahead and give me the word. Me: anthropomorfic GPT: Sure, let's start: a -> 1 -> 1 - 2 = 25 (z) n -> 14 -> 14 - 2 = 12 (l) t -> 20 -> 20 - 2 = 18 (r) h -> 8 -> 8 - 2 = 6 (f) r -> 18 -> 18 - 2 = 16 (p) o -> 15 -> 15 - 2 = 13 (m) p -> 16 -> 16 - 2 = 14 (n) o -> 15 -> 15 - 2 = 13 (m) m -> 13 -> 13 - 2 = 11 (k) o -> 15 -> 15 - 2 = 13 (m) r -> 18 -> 18 - 2 = 16 (p) f -> 6 -> 6 - 2 = 4 (d) i -> 9 -> 9 - 2 = 7 (g) c -> 3 -> 3 - 2 = 1 (a) So, "anthropomorfic" becomes "zlrfpmmnpmkpdmga". Your turn!
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - fireflash38 2y ago
      Isn't 25 y not z?
      - latexr 2y ago
        Indeed it is. That part is a huge mess. The LLM gave the wrong number when matching with the letter, but the letter itself is correct considering the instructions, except the instructions are wrong (ironic considering this came from someone claiming everyone is doing it wrong). Step four says: > Subtract two from each number of the list and generate a new list, if the result is lesser than 0, add 26. It should be “if the result is less than 1”, not “0”.

ben-schaaf 2y ago

Huh? It's a meme that LLMs can't follow the rules of chess. Just tried tick tack toe on GPT 3.5 and not only did it pick bad moves it also failed to evaluate the win condition.

terminalcommand 2y ago
I disagree, if a decent LLM cannot understand it there is a problem with the prompt. Imagine someone not knowing chess and explaining it to them. Would they be able to understand it on the first try with your prompt?
- latexr 2y ago
  > if a decent LLM cannot understand it there is a problem with the prompt. Ah, yes, the “you’re holding it wrong” argument with a dash of “No True Scotsman” so the goalposts can be moved depending on what anyone says is a “decent LLM”. Well, here’re are a few failures with GPT-3.5, GPT-4, and GPT4-o: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38304184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38304184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40368446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40368446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40368822 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40368822 > Imagine someone not knowing chess and explaining it to them. Would they be able to understand it on the first try with your prompt? Chess? Probably not. Tic-tac-toe? Probably yes. And the latter was what the person you’re responding to used.
  - terminalcommand 2y ago
    But people are holding it wrong. All the prompts you sent except the last are super short queries. For a successful prompt, you introduce yourself, assign a role to the LLM to impersonate, provide background on your query, tell what you want to achieve, provide some examples. If the LLM still doesn't get it you guide further. PS: I rewrote your prompt and GPT 3.5 understood it at the first try. See my reply above to your experiment. You were using it wrong sir.
    - 2y ago