18 ms·

Raspberry Pi CM5 seen in the wild

53 points by ceinewydd 2y ago

jsheard 2y ago
We all knew this was coming, but my question is what's the topology? The same as the regular Pi5, with the RP1 southbridge built-in and only one PCIe lane exposed for the user, or does the CM5 leave off the RP1 and break out all five PCIe lanes for user shenanigans? They have a bare chip supply chain set up from the RP2040, so they could sell the RP1 separately for those who want to integrate it onto their carrier boards.
- jacobmarble 2y ago
  It looks like the CM5 still has one PCIe lane. https://pip.raspberrypi.com/categories/945-forward-guidance https://pip.raspberrypi.com/categories/945-forward-guidance
  - ceinewydd 2y ago
    Be aware that discussing anything in the CM5 Forward Guidance document is tricky, the document still says - "This whitepaper is restricted and covered by the Raspberry Pi Ltd non-disclosure agreement (NDA). It should not be copied, shared, or duplicated without permission."
    - jsheard 2y ago
      I signed up with a disposable email and got access automatically, it's not that secret evidently. It was probably stricter earlier in development.
    - syene 2y ago
      Good thing nearly none of us here have signed that NDA.
  - gorkish 2y ago
    [flagged]
cicloid 2y ago
I've been waiting for this, now, the question is, is this a drop-in replacement for the CM4? If so, these will sell really well (and will have shortages)
- MuffinFlavored 2y ago
  What's something you do with these compute modules (CM)?
  - ceinewydd 2y ago
    They get installed in stuff like the Home Assistant Yellow, or the Timecard Mini. https://www.home-assistant.io/yellow/ https://www.home-assistant.io/yellow/ https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/time-card-mini-adds-pi-gps-and-oxco-your-pc https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/time-card-mini-adds-p...
  - rvense 2y ago
    Build products with them. I know of a few musical instruments with CM3s, for instance.
  - HankB99 2y ago
    I use one on a "CM4 ETHER BOARD" https://dphacks.com/cm4-ether-board-minimalist-compute-module-4-carrier-board/ https://dphacks.com/cm4-ether-board-minimalist-compute-modul... which provides Ethernet, USB-C for power and micro USB for flashing an EEPROM. It doesn't have an SD card slot but it has a 2230 NVME slot on the reverse side. I program the SSD on another setup and run Home Assistant on it. Ethernet is really all the I/O needed for a small server like that. I have another one on a Bicool Mini Base Board (A) which has a lot more I/O, albeit only one HDMI port and no USB3. It's suitable for desktop type applications with the caveat that the CM4 is barely suitable for that stuff.
  - mfritsche 2y ago
    Something which would most likely to be too niche of a market but which I would spend almost unreasonable money on would be a framework like laptop which one could upgrade by popping in a new cm every other year.
dheera 2y ago
The trouble with these CM's is by the time you get your hands on CM5 and engineer your custom carrier board for it (because they change the pinout every time), Pi 6 has come out.
- sircastor 2y ago
  Hopefully they're sticking with the same connectors and pinout as the CM4. The Raspberry Pi foundation considers the Compute Module line to be non-hobbiest-oriented anyway. They expect people to be building around the solution offered as a long-term product. The NEC display is a good example, because NEC is interested in driving the display for the life of the display, not in customers replacing the CM4 when its EOL.
- srott 2y ago
  It won’t fit into rpi 400?
  - sircastor 2y ago
    The Raspberry Pi 400 is a distinct product. It doesn't use a Compute module internally.
jacobmarble 2y ago
Here's the official CM4 => CM5 technical guidance: https://pip.raspberrypi.com/categories/945-forward-guidance https://pip.raspberrypi.com/categories/945-forward-guidance
tambourine_man 2y ago
CM stands for compute module, for those wondering like me
Pet_Ant 2y ago
Will it be compatible with things like the CM4 I/O board?
RIMR 2y ago
Are we 100% sure that this picture of a CM4 box with a CM5 sticker slapped on it is legitimate?
mdotk 2y ago
What does this mean for someone non-technical who uses a Pi for home files server?
- Gasp0de 2y ago
  Nothing.
  - refulgentis 2y ago
    Okay, I'll bite: what's going on? Seriously. I know what a Raspberry Pi 5 is, I have one. No idea what I'm supposed to take away from a "CM5"
    - technofiend 2y ago
      CM5 is just shorthand for Compute Module 5. It's a raspberry pi 5 in a different form factor. Until it's released we can't know all the exact differences without apparently signing up for an NDA'd spec sheet. But see https://www.makeuseof.com/raspberry-pi-4-vs-raspberry-pi-compute-module-4-key-differences/ https://www.makeuseof.com/raspberry-pi-4-vs-raspberry-pi-com... for a breakdown of how the PI 4 and CM 4 differed.
gorkish 2y ago
If CM5 doesn't at minimum expose the PCIe x4, I'm going to flip some fucking tables over.
eqvinox 2y ago
I kinda don't understand the point of the CM5. If you want a SoM, you're generally building something "fancy" around it… and at that point anything involving Broadcom is just about the worst choice. I guess it gets some bump from the shared platform with the Pi, but… there's enough SoMs with good platform support at this point. And it's not like they're notably cheaper than those either? (ed. I guess they are still cheaper than competing SoMs with roughly equal performance… but you pay the price of a poor closed platform instead)
- postpawl 2y ago
  > there's enough SoMs with good platform support at this point You’re talking about the new (and expensive) Turing RK1 and the Nvidia Jetson as alternatives?
  - eqvinox 2y ago
    Turing RK1 and similar, nVidia not as much given their platform accessibility is barely better than Broadcom. RK1 is not particularly great either but significantly better than either Broadcom or nVidia. I agree the really well supported platforms are both older as well as more expensive (e.g. i.MX & Sitara platforms.) However, I won't call the RK1 "expensive" considering it outperforms the Raspberry Pi (5) by a larger factor than it is pricier by (roughly.) [Ed.:] Actually, no, the RK1 isn't better either, given there doesn't even seem to be a datasheet available for the module as a whole. I guess I'm just living in my expensive but well-supported world of NXP, TI and ST SoMs that I can actually debug…
raminf 2y ago
Went down the voice assistant rabbit-hole with Home Assistant. To integrate with an LLM, you will need a separate processor (or connect to the cloud service). Wondering if CM5 will offer enough of a boost to allow on-device LLM processing on a Home Assistant Yellow. Guessing the answer is no, but it might be worth trying.
- johann8384 2y ago
  Orange Pi.
jimbobthrowawy 2y ago
Did anyone grab a screenshot or copy of this before it was deleted? Archive.is/archive.org don't seem to have it.
- Quasimarion 2y ago
  Snapshot by link caching app: https://imgur.com/a/EkcXHGh https://imgur.com/a/EkcXHGh

53 points by ceinewydd 2y ago

We all knew this was coming, but my question is what's the topology? The same as the regular Pi5, with the RP1 southbridge built-in and only one PCIe lane exposed for the user, or does the CM5 leave off the RP1 and break out all five PCIe lanes for user shenanigans? They have a bare chip supply chain set up from the RP2040, so they could sell the RP1 separately for those who want to integrate it onto their carrier boards.

jacobmarble 2y ago
It looks like the CM5 still has one PCIe lane. https://pip.raspberrypi.com/categories/945-forward-guidance https://pip.raspberrypi.com/categories/945-forward-guidance
- ceinewydd 2y ago
  Be aware that discussing anything in the CM5 Forward Guidance document is tricky, the document still says - "This whitepaper is restricted and covered by the Raspberry Pi Ltd non-disclosure agreement (NDA). It should not be copied, shared, or duplicated without permission."
  - jsheard 2y ago
    I signed up with a disposable email and got access automatically, it's not that secret evidently. It was probably stricter earlier in development.
  - syene 2y ago
    Good thing nearly none of us here have signed that NDA.
- gorkish 2y ago
  [flagged]

cicloid 2y ago

I've been waiting for this, now, the question is, is this a drop-in replacement for the CM4? If so, these will sell really well (and will have shortages)

MuffinFlavored 2y ago
What's something you do with these compute modules (CM)?
- ceinewydd 2y ago
  They get installed in stuff like the Home Assistant Yellow, or the Timecard Mini. https://www.home-assistant.io/yellow/ https://www.home-assistant.io/yellow/ https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/time-card-mini-adds-pi-gps-and-oxco-your-pc https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2023/time-card-mini-adds-p...
- rvense 2y ago
  Build products with them. I know of a few musical instruments with CM3s, for instance.
- HankB99 2y ago
  I use one on a "CM4 ETHER BOARD" https://dphacks.com/cm4-ether-board-minimalist-compute-module-4-carrier-board/ https://dphacks.com/cm4-ether-board-minimalist-compute-modul... which provides Ethernet, USB-C for power and micro USB for flashing an EEPROM. It doesn't have an SD card slot but it has a 2230 NVME slot on the reverse side. I program the SSD on another setup and run Home Assistant on it. Ethernet is really all the I/O needed for a small server like that. I have another one on a Bicool Mini Base Board (A) which has a lot more I/O, albeit only one HDMI port and no USB3. It's suitable for desktop type applications with the caveat that the CM4 is barely suitable for that stuff.
- mfritsche 2y ago
  Something which would most likely to be too niche of a market but which I would spend almost unreasonable money on would be a framework like laptop which one could upgrade by popping in a new cm every other year.

dheera 2y ago

The trouble with these CM's is by the time you get your hands on CM5 and engineer your custom carrier board for it (because they change the pinout every time), Pi 6 has come out.

sircastor 2y ago
Hopefully they're sticking with the same connectors and pinout as the CM4. The Raspberry Pi foundation considers the Compute Module line to be non-hobbiest-oriented anyway. They expect people to be building around the solution offered as a long-term product. The NEC display is a good example, because NEC is interested in driving the display for the life of the display, not in customers replacing the CM4 when its EOL.
srott 2y ago
It won’t fit into rpi 400?
- sircastor 2y ago
  The Raspberry Pi 400 is a distinct product. It doesn't use a Compute module internally.

jacobmarble 2y ago

Here's the official CM4 => CM5 technical guidance: https://pip.raspberrypi.com/categories/945-forward-guidance https://pip.raspberrypi.com/categories/945-forward-guidance

tambourine_man 2y ago

CM stands for compute module, for those wondering like me

Pet_Ant 2y ago

Will it be compatible with things like the CM4 I/O board?

RIMR 2y ago

Are we 100% sure that this picture of a CM4 box with a CM5 sticker slapped on it is legitimate?

mdotk 2y ago

What does this mean for someone non-technical who uses a Pi for home files server?

Gasp0de 2y ago
Nothing.
- refulgentis 2y ago
  Okay, I'll bite: what's going on? Seriously. I know what a Raspberry Pi 5 is, I have one. No idea what I'm supposed to take away from a "CM5"
  - technofiend 2y ago
    CM5 is just shorthand for Compute Module 5. It's a raspberry pi 5 in a different form factor. Until it's released we can't know all the exact differences without apparently signing up for an NDA'd spec sheet. But see https://www.makeuseof.com/raspberry-pi-4-vs-raspberry-pi-compute-module-4-key-differences/ https://www.makeuseof.com/raspberry-pi-4-vs-raspberry-pi-com... for a breakdown of how the PI 4 and CM 4 differed.

gorkish 2y ago

If CM5 doesn't at minimum expose the PCIe x4, I'm going to flip some fucking tables over.

eqvinox 2y ago

I kinda don't understand the point of the CM5. If you want a SoM, you're generally building something "fancy" around it… and at that point anything involving Broadcom is just about the worst choice. I guess it gets some bump from the shared platform with the Pi, but… there's enough SoMs with good platform support at this point. And it's not like they're notably cheaper than those either? (ed. I guess they are still cheaper than competing SoMs with roughly equal performance… but you pay the price of a poor closed platform instead)

postpawl 2y ago
> there's enough SoMs with good platform support at this point You’re talking about the new (and expensive) Turing RK1 and the Nvidia Jetson as alternatives?
- eqvinox 2y ago
  Turing RK1 and similar, nVidia not as much given their platform accessibility is barely better than Broadcom. RK1 is not particularly great either but significantly better than either Broadcom or nVidia. I agree the really well supported platforms are both older as well as more expensive (e.g. i.MX & Sitara platforms.) However, I won't call the RK1 "expensive" considering it outperforms the Raspberry Pi (5) by a larger factor than it is pricier by (roughly.) [Ed.:] Actually, no, the RK1 isn't better either, given there doesn't even seem to be a datasheet available for the module as a whole. I guess I'm just living in my expensive but well-supported world of NXP, TI and ST SoMs that I can actually debug…

raminf 2y ago

Went down the voice assistant rabbit-hole with Home Assistant. To integrate with an LLM, you will need a separate processor (or connect to the cloud service). Wondering if CM5 will offer enough of a boost to allow on-device LLM processing on a Home Assistant Yellow. Guessing the answer is no, but it might be worth trying.

johann8384 2y ago
Orange Pi.

jimbobthrowawy 2y ago

Did anyone grab a screenshot or copy of this before it was deleted? Archive.is/archive.org don't seem to have it.

Quasimarion 2y ago
Snapshot by link caching app: https://imgur.com/a/EkcXHGh https://imgur.com/a/EkcXHGh