5 ms·

For someone who doesn't know anything about SS how did the Europeans figure it out? Is it because they have smaller populations?

by chefkd 2y ago

floydnoel 2y ago
I believe they are heavily importing immigrants currently. Not really possible to "solve" a ponzi.
- chefkd 2y ago
  could you say more about what makes it a ponzi scheme? in my country there's traditional retirement account you contribute to from your salary whether you work at a private / public org and you get that when you reach 65 is that bad idk much about life but especially clueless about these things
  - TheCleric 2y ago
    I wouldn’t call it a Ponzi scheme, but it’s less you get an account and more you pay into a big account and get a stipend based on your peak income. So money we pay now goes to pay current retirement benefits. And hopefully by when I retire the next generation will be paying so I can retire.
    - chefkd 2y ago
      this is so maddeningly confusing to my brain that's used to you get what you put in can you explain like I'm 5-10 why is the fund running out if every generation pays? are people in the workforce right now not paying into it or has there been a significant change in demographics between 1983 and now? wouldn't an entire generation need to stop paying for this to happen or is that ismplifying it
      - TheCleric 2y ago
        > has there been a significant change in demographics between 1983 and now Bingo. The baby boomer generation that is hitting retirement now is living longer on average than any prior generation. Basically the math for payouts expected a certain amount of eligible people would either not make retirement age or would only collect retirement on average of X years before dying. That looks to be a miscalculation at this point: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/022516/will-baby-boomers-bankrupt-social-security.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/02251...
AnimalMuppet 2y ago
No, smaller populations doesn't help. It reduces the amount of benefits paid out of the fund, but it also reduces the payments into the fund.
throwaway5959 2y ago
They’re also delaying retirement age, which is effectively a benefit cut.
justinator 2y ago
EU citizens generally pay much higher taxes, and get better retirement benefits for a wider variety of jobs, many of which would not be a career path that would have a good benefit package in the States. And insurance that's not coupled with your employer. The flaunting of wealth also isn't exactly culturally as strong as it is in the States. My plan in the States -- in all seriousness -- is to be the local mountain hermit. I'll live semi-permanently in some hidden shack, I'll come down to town for odd jobs, hands-outs. Fringes of society for me.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
jltsiren 2y ago
Some countries have solved the problem, while others haven't. There is not much to figure out. There are three basic tools: higher contributions, higher retirement ages, and lower benefits. You just have to make decisions. Ideally decades in advance, to avoid unfair sudden changes.
drewrv 2y ago
They tax people, especially high earners, at a higher rate than Americans. It’s not complicated. The US is the wealthiest country in the history of the planet. We could afford to fund social security if we wanted to but some people are opposed to it.
- chefkd 2y ago
  if you don't mind me asking why? won't everyone just get the money they put in from their salaries? in my head it's like a way to save pre-tax am I simplifying it too much
  - xboxnolifes 2y ago
    Once you start getting social security, you keep getting it until you die. Some people take out more than they put in.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
searealist 2y ago
Which countries?
- chefkd 2y ago
  Scandinavian is the usual example but like the UK for instance lived there for a bit everyone got dental / health through the NHS that would be the equivalent of medicare right? it didn't seem to be as political
  - searealist 2y ago
    The trick is to have a homogenous population of Nordic people.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
Ekaros 2y ago
We did not... In essence it is even more pay as you go. Tax everyone more and distribute that to pensioners. Though quite many pensioners are rather poor. Some with high earnings in late career do quite well.

For someone who doesn't know anything about SS how did the Europeans figure it out? Is it because they have smaller populations?

by chefkd 2y ago

For someone who doesn't know anything about SS how did the Europeans figure it out? Is it because they have smaller populations?

floydnoel 2y ago

I believe they are heavily importing immigrants currently. Not really possible to "solve" a ponzi.

chefkd 2y ago
could you say more about what makes it a ponzi scheme? in my country there's traditional retirement account you contribute to from your salary whether you work at a private / public org and you get that when you reach 65 is that bad idk much about life but especially clueless about these things
- TheCleric 2y ago
  I wouldn’t call it a Ponzi scheme, but it’s less you get an account and more you pay into a big account and get a stipend based on your peak income. So money we pay now goes to pay current retirement benefits. And hopefully by when I retire the next generation will be paying so I can retire.
  - chefkd 2y ago
    this is so maddeningly confusing to my brain that's used to you get what you put in can you explain like I'm 5-10 why is the fund running out if every generation pays? are people in the workforce right now not paying into it or has there been a significant change in demographics between 1983 and now? wouldn't an entire generation need to stop paying for this to happen or is that ismplifying it
    - TheCleric 2y ago
      > has there been a significant change in demographics between 1983 and now Bingo. The baby boomer generation that is hitting retirement now is living longer on average than any prior generation. Basically the math for payouts expected a certain amount of eligible people would either not make retirement age or would only collect retirement on average of X years before dying. That looks to be a miscalculation at this point: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/022516/will-baby-boomers-bankrupt-social-security.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/02251...

AnimalMuppet 2y ago

No, smaller populations doesn't help. It reduces the amount of benefits paid out of the fund, but it also reduces the payments into the fund.

throwaway5959 2y ago

They’re also delaying retirement age, which is effectively a benefit cut.

justinator 2y ago

EU citizens generally pay much higher taxes, and get better retirement benefits for a wider variety of jobs, many of which would not be a career path that would have a good benefit package in the States. And insurance that's not coupled with your employer. The flaunting of wealth also isn't exactly culturally as strong as it is in the States. My plan in the States -- in all seriousness -- is to be the local mountain hermit. I'll live semi-permanently in some hidden shack, I'll come down to town for odd jobs, hands-outs. Fringes of society for me.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jltsiren 2y ago

Some countries have solved the problem, while others haven't. There is not much to figure out. There are three basic tools: higher contributions, higher retirement ages, and lower benefits. You just have to make decisions. Ideally decades in advance, to avoid unfair sudden changes.

drewrv 2y ago

They tax people, especially high earners, at a higher rate than Americans. It’s not complicated. The US is the wealthiest country in the history of the planet. We could afford to fund social security if we wanted to but some people are opposed to it.

chefkd 2y ago
if you don't mind me asking why? won't everyone just get the money they put in from their salaries? in my head it's like a way to save pre-tax am I simplifying it too much
- xboxnolifes 2y ago
  Once you start getting social security, you keep getting it until you die. Some people take out more than they put in.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

searealist 2y ago

Which countries?

chefkd 2y ago
Scandinavian is the usual example but like the UK for instance lived there for a bit everyone got dental / health through the NHS that would be the equivalent of medicare right? it didn't seem to be as political
- searealist 2y ago
  The trick is to have a homogenous population of Nordic people.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

Ekaros 2y ago

We did not... In essence it is even more pay as you go. Tax everyone more and distribute that to pensioners. Though quite many pensioners are rather poor. Some with high earnings in late career do quite well.