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I'm not sure what others are saying, I re-watched Ghost in the Shell again recently and I had forgotten just how brilliant it is. There is something pure about

I'm not sure what others are saying, I re-watched Ghost in the Shell again recently and I had forgotten just how brilliant it is. There is something pure about it that you just don't find in modern anime, something that really resonated.

YurgenJurgensen 2y ago
That something is acetate.
- xorbax 2y ago
  This is why I think Akira can't be surpassed. Not just because it was done on acetate, but because of the level of skill and consideration required to animate that way. You can't just undo that brush stroke onto the cel and try something else. As much as technology has democratized the field, I think it also lowers the heights. I desperately hope I'm wrong and just old, but I haven't met someone who puts up something that they think is better. Maybe it's just because we're in the transitory phase - but digital animation has been around for decades at this point. Maybe it's Ikea versus handcrafting, and the shift is in the expected quality rather than the art elevating itself to meet priors.
  - doublepg23 2y ago
    I think the democratization means the heights won't be big-budget corporate things, they'll be on YouTube or Patreon.
    - cedilla 2y ago
      Akira was a big budget corporate thing though. It's technical excellence came from having the budget to employ multiple highly skilled animation leads and hundreds of animators drawing hundreds of thousands of cells.
      - fidotron 2y ago
        Conspicuously though Akira is a product of the manga industry and not the anime one. This is why it deviates from the norms in so many respects.
  - cedilla 2y ago
    Akira is a cult classic and a pivotal point in anime - much more in the US than in Japan. If you don't know of a film surpassing it in skill and consideration in the thirty years since it was made it probably says more about your exposure to anime. Maybe it's just that Cyberpunk is less popular now and the big genres are of less interest to you.
    - lupusreal 2y ago
      The big genres of modern anime seem to predominantly be pandering to base weebs. Waifu shit meant to sell body pillows. Where is all the serious animation like Magnetic Rose at?
      - breckenedge 2y ago
        Eras that produce masterpieces are unsustainable.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    I think animation done in computers can be excellent, but is disadvantaged because computers make it easier to do thinks quick and cheap and the economics of animation incentivises taking that direction. Redline is a rare example where I think it's done well.
    - bch 2y ago
      > Redline is a rare example Tekkonkinkreet
  - warcher 2y ago
    Watch into the spider verse sometime if you want to see what modern tech can be when it’s fully unleashed, versus kept under budget.
  - giuseppe_petri 2y ago
    > You can't just undo that brush stroke onto the cel and try something else. That's why you animate with pencil on paper first.
maxglute 2y ago
Every part of GiS has been, per article "endlessly ripped off, referenced and remixed". Whatever one liked about original GiS, there's a derivation out there that turns dial to 11 and makes the original feel basic in retrospect. But that's testimony to GiS greatness.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  There is a common trope about this very effect: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnceOriginalNowCommon https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnceOriginalNowC...
- hwbunny 2y ago
  Any examples that make GiS inferior to a copycat?
- jonathanlydall 2y ago
  I watched The Shining for the first time in around 2012 and when commenting to an older friend about it I said something to the effect of "It's good, but I didn't feel it was exceptional." to which he replied saying that "Yes, but consider that it was the first real film of that genre, it only seems "okay" today because you're comparing to all the films of the same genre which came after and were largely influenced by it." I don't know enough about films to know that if he said was accurate, but it's stuck with me. I was about 16 when The Matrix came out and I find it interesting asking people who were born after it came out what they think about it, if they've seen it their reaction is typically (much like me with The Shining) "seemed alright", while for me at the time the movie was phenomenal and in terms of many of its special effects, unlike anything I had ever seen before.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    There are a number of films: The Matrix, the original Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Avatar, I’m sure many others that were just so different and jaw-dropping in many ways when they first came out—in those cases because of effects of various types mostly—that it can be hard to appreciate their novelty at the time. Some stand up better than others.
chaostheory 2y ago
Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex is much better. Movies don’t have enough time to tell the story when there’s a lot of political intrigue.
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YurgenJurgensen 2y ago

That something is acetate.

xorbax 2y ago
This is why I think Akira can't be surpassed. Not just because it was done on acetate, but because of the level of skill and consideration required to animate that way. You can't just undo that brush stroke onto the cel and try something else. As much as technology has democratized the field, I think it also lowers the heights. I desperately hope I'm wrong and just old, but I haven't met someone who puts up something that they think is better. Maybe it's just because we're in the transitory phase - but digital animation has been around for decades at this point. Maybe it's Ikea versus handcrafting, and the shift is in the expected quality rather than the art elevating itself to meet priors.
- doublepg23 2y ago
  I think the democratization means the heights won't be big-budget corporate things, they'll be on YouTube or Patreon.
  - cedilla 2y ago
    Akira was a big budget corporate thing though. It's technical excellence came from having the budget to employ multiple highly skilled animation leads and hundreds of animators drawing hundreds of thousands of cells.
    - fidotron 2y ago
      Conspicuously though Akira is a product of the manga industry and not the anime one. This is why it deviates from the norms in so many respects.
- cedilla 2y ago
  Akira is a cult classic and a pivotal point in anime - much more in the US than in Japan. If you don't know of a film surpassing it in skill and consideration in the thirty years since it was made it probably says more about your exposure to anime. Maybe it's just that Cyberpunk is less popular now and the big genres are of less interest to you.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    The big genres of modern anime seem to predominantly be pandering to base weebs. Waifu shit meant to sell body pillows. Where is all the serious animation like Magnetic Rose at?
    - breckenedge 2y ago
      Eras that produce masterpieces are unsustainable.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  I think animation done in computers can be excellent, but is disadvantaged because computers make it easier to do thinks quick and cheap and the economics of animation incentivises taking that direction. Redline is a rare example where I think it's done well.
  - bch 2y ago
    > Redline is a rare example Tekkonkinkreet
- warcher 2y ago
  Watch into the spider verse sometime if you want to see what modern tech can be when it’s fully unleashed, versus kept under budget.
- giuseppe_petri 2y ago
  > You can't just undo that brush stroke onto the cel and try something else. That's why you animate with pencil on paper first.

maxglute 2y ago

Every part of GiS has been, per article "endlessly ripped off, referenced and remixed". Whatever one liked about original GiS, there's a derivation out there that turns dial to 11 and makes the original feel basic in retrospect. But that's testimony to GiS greatness.

satvikpendem 2y ago
There is a common trope about this very effect: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnceOriginalNowCommon https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnceOriginalNowC...
hwbunny 2y ago
Any examples that make GiS inferior to a copycat?
jonathanlydall 2y ago
I watched The Shining for the first time in around 2012 and when commenting to an older friend about it I said something to the effect of "It's good, but I didn't feel it was exceptional." to which he replied saying that "Yes, but consider that it was the first real film of that genre, it only seems "okay" today because you're comparing to all the films of the same genre which came after and were largely influenced by it." I don't know enough about films to know that if he said was accurate, but it's stuck with me. I was about 16 when The Matrix came out and I find it interesting asking people who were born after it came out what they think about it, if they've seen it their reaction is typically (much like me with The Shining) "seemed alright", while for me at the time the movie was phenomenal and in terms of many of its special effects, unlike anything I had ever seen before.
- ghaff 2y ago
  There are a number of films: The Matrix, the original Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Avatar, I’m sure many others that were just so different and jaw-dropping in many ways when they first came out—in those cases because of effects of various types mostly—that it can be hard to appreciate their novelty at the time. Some stand up better than others.

chaostheory 2y ago

Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex is much better. Movies don’t have enough time to tell the story when there’s a lot of political intrigue.

deleted 2y ago

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deleted 2y ago

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