5 ms·

YES

by j0ba 2y ago

YES

cogman10 2y ago
What sort of adversarial actions have they taken against the US? The most recent one I can think of is responding with tariffs against the US after we put tariffs on their solar exports. Beyond that... the Korean war I think was the last time we were any sort of direct/semi direct conflict with them. And Taiwan is the touchiest aspect we have with them.
- goliathDown 2y ago
  What type of company does China keep? Last I checked, they were pretty buddy-buddy with Russia, and North korea on an estranged leash. If we know other countries fund terrorist organizations for intent of undermining western influence, is it that big of a stretch to say China is probably doing the same thing? You can't use 'direct conflict' as a measure in this type of game. Russia has done damning harm to american politics, but its not clear how to measure that effect.
- eureka-belief 2y ago
  Large scale hacking of US companies, IP theft, brinksmanship regarding issue of Taiwan (backed by real incentive to follow through) where have you been?
  - caeril 2y ago
    > Large scale hacking of US companies This is a solid point. What most people don't get is that despite the enormous investment the CIA, NSA, and DoD Sigint have made into their offensive security teams, most of their budget is dedicated to Friday team-building activities, Bowling Nights, and Foosball tables. The US definitely does not hack anybody. "Everyone but FVEY are the super evil hackerz" is a childish, head-in-the-sand position to hold in the modern geopolitical climate. Everyone is hacking everyone, and China is not some sort of unique Bad Guy in this regard.
    - ryandvm 2y ago
      Agreed, but if you're going to play whataboutism, then you surely understand that China does not allow US companies unfettered idealogical access to their populace, so why should we grant them as much?
- j0ba 2y ago
  I mean.. are you really not aware that the US and China have an adversarial relationship? Both countries embedding spies, industrial espionage, trade wars, soft power projection, etc etc. Power is a zero-sum game.
  - axus 2y ago
    What kind of power do you mean? The military, economic, and industrial power of China and United States have both been increasing, it doesn't look like "zero-sum". US and China choose to act this way, but they could stop harassing each other without affecting their own power bases.
- edm0nd 2y ago
  Chinese backed threat actors have basically hacked into every major Fortune 50 tech company and stolen R&D.
  - pphysch 2y ago
    Where is the evidence that they are backed by the Chinese government?
    - heinternets 2y ago
      There's articles all over the place about it if you look. For example: https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/apt31-chinese-hacking-group-behind-global-cyberespionage-campaign-2024-03-26/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/apt31-chine...
      - pphysch 2y ago
        Articles and headlines themselves do not constitute evidence. All we get from your Reuters article is an allegation from the US Government (of Iraq WMD fame), and a denial from the Chinese Government. It's hearsay not evidence. Where is the evidence?
    - edm0nd 2y ago
      All over the place if you actually care but I somewhat doubt that.
      - pphysch 2y ago
        If actual evidence were all over the place, you wouldn't be making this comment. The fact is the accurately attributing expert cybercrime is extremely difficult and anyone that implies otherwise is making a fool out of you.

YES

by j0ba 2y ago

YES

What sort of adversarial actions have they taken against the US? The most recent one I can think of is responding with tariffs against the US after we put tariffs on their solar exports. Beyond that... the Korean war I think was the last time we were any sort of direct/semi direct conflict with them. And Taiwan is the touchiest aspect we have with them.

goliathDown 2y ago
What type of company does China keep? Last I checked, they were pretty buddy-buddy with Russia, and North korea on an estranged leash. If we know other countries fund terrorist organizations for intent of undermining western influence, is it that big of a stretch to say China is probably doing the same thing? You can't use 'direct conflict' as a measure in this type of game. Russia has done damning harm to american politics, but its not clear how to measure that effect.
eureka-belief 2y ago
Large scale hacking of US companies, IP theft, brinksmanship regarding issue of Taiwan (backed by real incentive to follow through) where have you been?
- caeril 2y ago
  > Large scale hacking of US companies This is a solid point. What most people don't get is that despite the enormous investment the CIA, NSA, and DoD Sigint have made into their offensive security teams, most of their budget is dedicated to Friday team-building activities, Bowling Nights, and Foosball tables. The US definitely does not hack anybody. "Everyone but FVEY are the super evil hackerz" is a childish, head-in-the-sand position to hold in the modern geopolitical climate. Everyone is hacking everyone, and China is not some sort of unique Bad Guy in this regard.
  - ryandvm 2y ago
    Agreed, but if you're going to play whataboutism, then you surely understand that China does not allow US companies unfettered idealogical access to their populace, so why should we grant them as much?
j0ba 2y ago
I mean.. are you really not aware that the US and China have an adversarial relationship? Both countries embedding spies, industrial espionage, trade wars, soft power projection, etc etc. Power is a zero-sum game.
- axus 2y ago
  What kind of power do you mean? The military, economic, and industrial power of China and United States have both been increasing, it doesn't look like "zero-sum". US and China choose to act this way, but they could stop harassing each other without affecting their own power bases.
edm0nd 2y ago
Chinese backed threat actors have basically hacked into every major Fortune 50 tech company and stolen R&D.
- pphysch 2y ago
  Where is the evidence that they are backed by the Chinese government?
  - heinternets 2y ago
    There's articles all over the place about it if you look. For example: https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/apt31-chinese-hacking-group-behind-global-cyberespionage-campaign-2024-03-26/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/cybersecurity/apt31-chine...
    - pphysch 2y ago
      Articles and headlines themselves do not constitute evidence. All we get from your Reuters article is an allegation from the US Government (of Iraq WMD fame), and a denial from the Chinese Government. It's hearsay not evidence. Where is the evidence?
  - edm0nd 2y ago
    All over the place if you actually care but I somewhat doubt that.
    - pphysch 2y ago
      If actual evidence were all over the place, you wouldn't be making this comment. The fact is the accurately attributing expert cybercrime is extremely difficult and anyone that implies otherwise is making a fool out of you.