7 ms·

I wonder if Apple will bump up the amount of RAM in iPhones due to AI. It seems like most LLMs require a large amount of memory. They've been stingy on increa

I wonder if Apple will bump up the amount of RAM in iPhones due to AI. It seems like most LLMs require a large amount of memory. They've been stingy on increasing RAM compared to Android phones.

MPSimmons 2y ago
I can't wait until Groq or someone else release tiny mobile inference engines specifically for phones and the like.
- Largeapplemodel 2y ago
  There's already tiny LLMs for this. They're bad. Because it's not enough information to be coherent.
MyFirstSass 2y ago
It's one of the most infuriating things about Apple. The ram tax so absurd it's bordering on criminal, but it also just seems stupid, because if they hadn't put 8gb's of ram in the new smallest macbook air m2 their whole lineup would be more than capable at running local quality LLM's, or double their gaming devices because of their awesome chipset giving them 16gb's of vram essentially, but no, not now when 25% have low ram, ie. no new OS LLM updates. Also we can't have gaming because half their new sold devices have shit ram, so they also kind of already ditched their "gaming" plan they just got started on a year ago - all because they wan't to push products with ram levels from 10 years ago - bizarre! They must be betting on local AI as a "pro" feature only.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
  8GB for a premium device in 2024 is a hard ask, completely agree. But I hold absolutely zero hard feelings toward Apple for not catering to gamers as a demographic Most importantly, though, we are talking about iPhones here. I can’t say I’ve ever thought to myself “gosh, I wish my phone had more RAM!” in…over a decade?
  - nnq 2y ago
    ...so, you haven't used Android in over a decade?
    - hnfong 2y ago
      > > we are talking about iPhones here
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Last time I cared how much RAM any phone had, iOS or Android, I was working at Augmentra on the ViewRanger app, and we were still supporting older devices with only 256 MB. That was… *checks CV*… I left in April 2015. I think RAM is like roads: usage expands to fill available infrastructure/storage. That an iPhone today has as much RAM as the still-functioning Mid-2013 MacBook Air sitting in a drawer behind me is surprising when compared to the 250-fold growth from my Commodore 64 to my (default) Performa 5200… but it doesn't seem to have actually harmed anything I care about.
      - nnq 2y ago
        I was basically always slowed down by RAM on Android - prob bc I switch between lots of very badly coded apps... so even on desktop I've grown to see RAM as "insurance against badly written code" as in "I'll still be able to run that memory leaky crapware and get what I need done" or in "I'll just spin up a VM for that crap that only runs on that other OS"... Swimming in badly written SPAs and cordova/whatever hybrid apps is seriously helped by eg 12GB of RAM on a mobile :)
  - foobarian 2y ago
    > But I hold absolutely zero hard feelings toward Apple for not catering to gamers as a demographic Honestly I'm glad they don't. The PC is the last open platform out there and the last thing I'd want to see is Apple encroaching on it with their walled gardens and carbonite-encased computers.
- whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  8GB ram models don't exist to be used they exist to be e-waste that gets you to the checkout page where you click 16GB instead.
HumblyTossed 2y ago
> They've been stingy on increasing RAM ... in any of their products. FTFY
paxys 2y ago
Zero chance the marketing department will let them give up the extra $400 or whatever they get to charge for the bare minimum storage and RAM upgrades on all their devices.
- freedomben 2y ago
  I think it's silly to think the marketing department gets to control the pricing, but it is definitely very true that the "starting at <great price>" is very powerful for them. Even beyond Apple, it warps and distorts the entire laptop field pricing because people who don't understand how inadequate the entry level model is will compare that price to an entry-level model of Lenovo, or Dell, etc and make conclusions. Even on HN I've seen people use the "starting at" price of macs as a way of "proving" that "the Apple tax isn't much." So yes, there is tremendous marketing value from that low starting price, although I think it's nearing the end of it's usefulness now that even fan sites are starting to call out the inadequacy.
  - aeyes 2y ago
    I don't think that they are inadequate, these devices are perfect for most of my family. They do some calls, messages, a couple of pictures here and there, basic word processing and web browsing but not much more on these devices. I had a Macbook with 8GB RAM and 256GB disk as my daily driver for work until last year running Docker and my fat IDE without too many issues. It's a similar story with my phone - I bought the bigger storage version because I thought I'd need it but after 3 years of using it I'm still not close to even using 128GB.
    - freedomben 2y ago
      Interesting. what is the browser usage like for most of your family? i.e. how many tabs do they tend to keep open at a time?
woadwarrior01 2y ago
So the trend with Apple has been that the SoC from the current generation Pro and Pro Max devices becomes the SoC for the next generation of baseline devices. For instance the iPhone 14 Pro Max and iPhone 15 have the same SoC (A16 Bionic). And this trend holds all the way back to iPhone 12. It's almost certain that the iPhone 16 will ship with 8GB of RAM. What needs to be seen is whether iPhone 16 Pro and Pro Maxes will ship with 16GB of RAM (Like with high end M1/M2 iPad Pros with >= 1TB SSD).
- hu3 2y ago
  So I plotted iPhones RAM and I fail to see a trend that could lead to doubling current RAM to 16GB. 12 Pro Max had 6GB RAM 15 Pro Max has 8GB RAM 16 most likely will have between 8GB and 12GB RAM. https://i.imgur.com/N7OPjMK.png https://i.imgur.com/N7OPjMK.png

I wonder if Apple will bump up the amount of RAM in iPhones due to AI. It seems like most LLMs require a large amount of memory. They've been stingy on increasing RAM compared to Android phones.

MPSimmons 2y ago

I can't wait until Groq or someone else release tiny mobile inference engines specifically for phones and the like.

Largeapplemodel 2y ago
There's already tiny LLMs for this. They're bad. Because it's not enough information to be coherent.

MyFirstSass 2y ago

It's one of the most infuriating things about Apple. The ram tax so absurd it's bordering on criminal, but it also just seems stupid, because if they hadn't put 8gb's of ram in the new smallest macbook air m2 their whole lineup would be more than capable at running local quality LLM's, or double their gaming devices because of their awesome chipset giving them 16gb's of vram essentially, but no, not now when 25% have low ram, ie. no new OS LLM updates. Also we can't have gaming because half their new sold devices have shit ram, so they also kind of already ditched their "gaming" plan they just got started on a year ago - all because they wan't to push products with ram levels from 10 years ago - bizarre! They must be betting on local AI as a "pro" feature only.

cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
8GB for a premium device in 2024 is a hard ask, completely agree. But I hold absolutely zero hard feelings toward Apple for not catering to gamers as a demographic Most importantly, though, we are talking about iPhones here. I can’t say I’ve ever thought to myself “gosh, I wish my phone had more RAM!” in…over a decade?
- nnq 2y ago
  ...so, you haven't used Android in over a decade?
  - hnfong 2y ago
    > > we are talking about iPhones here
  - ben_w 2y ago
    Last time I cared how much RAM any phone had, iOS or Android, I was working at Augmentra on the ViewRanger app, and we were still supporting older devices with only 256 MB. That was… *checks CV*… I left in April 2015. I think RAM is like roads: usage expands to fill available infrastructure/storage. That an iPhone today has as much RAM as the still-functioning Mid-2013 MacBook Air sitting in a drawer behind me is surprising when compared to the 250-fold growth from my Commodore 64 to my (default) Performa 5200… but it doesn't seem to have actually harmed anything I care about.
    - nnq 2y ago
      I was basically always slowed down by RAM on Android - prob bc I switch between lots of very badly coded apps... so even on desktop I've grown to see RAM as "insurance against badly written code" as in "I'll still be able to run that memory leaky crapware and get what I need done" or in "I'll just spin up a VM for that crap that only runs on that other OS"... Swimming in badly written SPAs and cordova/whatever hybrid apps is seriously helped by eg 12GB of RAM on a mobile :)
- foobarian 2y ago
  > But I hold absolutely zero hard feelings toward Apple for not catering to gamers as a demographic Honestly I'm glad they don't. The PC is the last open platform out there and the last thing I'd want to see is Apple encroaching on it with their walled gardens and carbonite-encased computers.
whywhywhywhy 2y ago
8GB ram models don't exist to be used they exist to be e-waste that gets you to the checkout page where you click 16GB instead.

HumblyTossed 2y ago

> They've been stingy on increasing RAM ... in any of their products. FTFY

paxys 2y ago

Zero chance the marketing department will let them give up the extra $400 or whatever they get to charge for the bare minimum storage and RAM upgrades on all their devices.

freedomben 2y ago
I think it's silly to think the marketing department gets to control the pricing, but it is definitely very true that the "starting at <great price>" is very powerful for them. Even beyond Apple, it warps and distorts the entire laptop field pricing because people who don't understand how inadequate the entry level model is will compare that price to an entry-level model of Lenovo, or Dell, etc and make conclusions. Even on HN I've seen people use the "starting at" price of macs as a way of "proving" that "the Apple tax isn't much." So yes, there is tremendous marketing value from that low starting price, although I think it's nearing the end of it's usefulness now that even fan sites are starting to call out the inadequacy.
- aeyes 2y ago
  I don't think that they are inadequate, these devices are perfect for most of my family. They do some calls, messages, a couple of pictures here and there, basic word processing and web browsing but not much more on these devices. I had a Macbook with 8GB RAM and 256GB disk as my daily driver for work until last year running Docker and my fat IDE without too many issues. It's a similar story with my phone - I bought the bigger storage version because I thought I'd need it but after 3 years of using it I'm still not close to even using 128GB.
  - freedomben 2y ago
    Interesting. what is the browser usage like for most of your family? i.e. how many tabs do they tend to keep open at a time?

woadwarrior01 2y ago

So the trend with Apple has been that the SoC from the current generation Pro and Pro Max devices becomes the SoC for the next generation of baseline devices. For instance the iPhone 14 Pro Max and iPhone 15 have the same SoC (A16 Bionic). And this trend holds all the way back to iPhone 12. It's almost certain that the iPhone 16 will ship with 8GB of RAM. What needs to be seen is whether iPhone 16 Pro and Pro Maxes will ship with 16GB of RAM (Like with high end M1/M2 iPad Pros with >= 1TB SSD).

hu3 2y ago
So I plotted iPhones RAM and I fail to see a trend that could lead to doubling current RAM to 16GB. 12 Pro Max had 6GB RAM 15 Pro Max has 8GB RAM 16 most likely will have between 8GB and 12GB RAM. https://i.imgur.com/N7OPjMK.png https://i.imgur.com/N7OPjMK.png