6 ms·

The West was greedy and saw a trillion dollar opportunity in welcoming China into the WTO in 2000 and gave China massive leeway (this is my opinion, and probabl

The West was greedy and saw a trillion dollar opportunity in welcoming China into the WTO in 2000 and gave China massive leeway (this is my opinion, and probably not a majority opinion). In my opinion (only speaking for Germany, as I follow mostly the politics here) nobody was very keen on asking questions and making demand when the Chinese were producing our shit for pennies on the dollar but buying our premium Mercedes Benz S Classes Long Lines (and similar high technology products) by the millions. Who would've thunk that the turntables would've, well turned... I'm not blaming China for this btw, they played their hand very well

mrjin 2y ago
There would no problems at all if China continues to make shirts, shoes etc... But China started to make some high end stuff, such as Computers, and it did those so well that it could probably render US competitors irrelevant in the next a couple of decades. So all drama started.
- _chu1 2y ago
  No, it hasn't. Never seen anything relatively nice from a Chinese company, even when it's another one of their piles of manure with a different name like OnePlus.
  - chaos_emergent 2y ago
    In consumer drones, DJI is the undisputed champion. In consumer 3D printers, Bambu has revolutionized the market.
  - squarefoot 2y ago
    Don't mistake the crap they make without any quality control then sell on Aliexpress by shady shops with the serious stuff their industry is perfectly capable of design and produce. Now we could debate that millions of people buying the former contributed also to the latter, that is probably the case, but one sure fact is that they can make extremely advanced stuff at very convenient prices. Denying that because of one's nationalistic views won't change anything, unfortunately. We need to understand how to counter that in a positive way, that is, being better, not blocking their products. Now, how do you develop an industry compared to the Chinese without transforming workers into underpaid drones with no civil liberties? That's likely the one question no western politician would like to hear, because they'd have no answer.
Clubber 2y ago
I think the hopes were that China, once prospering in the global marketplace as a big player, would turn democratic. Over the last decade or two, we've come to realize the opposite has happened and the Western powers are adjusting. Of course Western companies have made a lot of money off China with cheap labor and massive marketplace, so it wasn't entirely an altruistic endeavour.
- licebmi__at__ 2y ago
  Western powers still make deals with authoritarian/non-democratic states. At this point is naive to think that the grievances with china are because “they are not democratic”.
  - Clubber 2y ago
    >At this point is naive to think that the grievances with china are because “they are not democratic”. No, the kid gloves are off because "they are not democratic." It's like being nice to the weird kid in school and the weird kid steals your lunch. No more being nice to the weird kid. Also, consider if they were democratic, we might not be having the grievances we are currently having.
    - Reki 2y ago
      So how do you explain our relashionship with countries like Saudi Arabia? Because forget the bully, thats like being friends with the school shooter.
      - Clubber 2y ago
        What does that have to do with anything I said? Do you think we ally with countries for moral reasons? We allied with Stalin after he invaded Poland with Germany earlier in the same war.
      - red-iron-pine 2y ago
        that school shooter is rich af, and as much as everyone hates them, can lever that over the whole school.

mrjin 2y ago

There would no problems at all if China continues to make shirts, shoes etc... But China started to make some high end stuff, such as Computers, and it did those so well that it could probably render US competitors irrelevant in the next a couple of decades. So all drama started.

_chu1 2y ago
No, it hasn't. Never seen anything relatively nice from a Chinese company, even when it's another one of their piles of manure with a different name like OnePlus.
- chaos_emergent 2y ago
  In consumer drones, DJI is the undisputed champion. In consumer 3D printers, Bambu has revolutionized the market.
- squarefoot 2y ago
  Don't mistake the crap they make without any quality control then sell on Aliexpress by shady shops with the serious stuff their industry is perfectly capable of design and produce. Now we could debate that millions of people buying the former contributed also to the latter, that is probably the case, but one sure fact is that they can make extremely advanced stuff at very convenient prices. Denying that because of one's nationalistic views won't change anything, unfortunately. We need to understand how to counter that in a positive way, that is, being better, not blocking their products. Now, how do you develop an industry compared to the Chinese without transforming workers into underpaid drones with no civil liberties? That's likely the one question no western politician would like to hear, because they'd have no answer.

Clubber 2y ago

I think the hopes were that China, once prospering in the global marketplace as a big player, would turn democratic. Over the last decade or two, we've come to realize the opposite has happened and the Western powers are adjusting. Of course Western companies have made a lot of money off China with cheap labor and massive marketplace, so it wasn't entirely an altruistic endeavour.

licebmi__at__ 2y ago
Western powers still make deals with authoritarian/non-democratic states. At this point is naive to think that the grievances with china are because “they are not democratic”.
- Clubber 2y ago
  >At this point is naive to think that the grievances with china are because “they are not democratic”. No, the kid gloves are off because "they are not democratic." It's like being nice to the weird kid in school and the weird kid steals your lunch. No more being nice to the weird kid. Also, consider if they were democratic, we might not be having the grievances we are currently having.
  - Reki 2y ago
    So how do you explain our relashionship with countries like Saudi Arabia? Because forget the bully, thats like being friends with the school shooter.
    - Clubber 2y ago
      What does that have to do with anything I said? Do you think we ally with countries for moral reasons? We allied with Stalin after he invaded Poland with Germany earlier in the same war.
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      that school shooter is rich af, and as much as everyone hates them, can lever that over the whole school.