7 ms·

Half of Ireland's young people have low level of mental wellbeing

36 points by cat-snatcher 2y ago

incomingpain 2y ago
Ireland is in a very bad spot right now. They are in a deep recession, over a year of gdp contraction. Later this month we find out last quarter's gdp reduction and if it's -0.6% or worse, Ireland moves from recession to depression. Which I will be shocked to see if they achieve anything better. Ireland's housing crisis: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/15/world/europe/ireland-housing-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/15/world/europe/ireland-hous... Overall Ireland is in a bad spot and young folks with low work experience are the ones who will hurt the most.
- angrais 2y ago
  Was this comment generated by AI?
  - nequo 2y ago
    Looks human to me and to https://gptzero.me/ https://gptzero.me/. What made you think it was AI?
    - angrais 2y ago
      The repetition in the last sentence and use of "Overall". The structure of the first paragraph too. I appreciate this may not have been the case (sorry OP), which is why I asked the above question.
- KoolKat23 2y ago
  GDP when it comes to Ireland is not the best measure, yes it was down in 2023 due to lower returns from pharmaceutical and contract manufacturing multinationals. Modified Domestic Demand, a better measure of the internal economy was up 0.5%, much better but will still be felt relative to the crazy highs Ireland reached the past few years. The new OECD tax agreement means GDP and tax will remain under pressure (tax surplus forecasts are being revised downwards).
  - circlefavshape 2y ago
    +1 The Irish Central Bank doesn't use GDP anymore because our tax haven status distorts it so much.
- paulette449 2y ago
  Shrinking GDP, yes, likely to move from technical to actual recession, sure, but "in a deep recession" is factually incorrect [1]: "Ireland officially fell into recession last year as multinational exports slumped in the face of weaker global demand but the domestic economy still managed to grow, aided by stronger-than-expected consumer spending. Central Statistics Office (CSO) figures published on Friday show the economy as a whole shrank by 3.2 per cent in GDP (gross domestic product) terms in 2023. The CSO noted that the more globalised sectors of the economy, including the multinational-dominated “Industry” sector, contracted for the first time since 2013. This was “driven largely by a fall of 4.8 per cent in exports,” the agency said. The figures show the economy was effectively in a technical recession for the entirety of 2023 with GDP contracting in all four quarters. The domestic economy as measured by modified domestic demand (MDD), a more reliable barometer of domestic activity, grew by 0.5 per cent on the back of a 3.1 per cent increase in consumer spending. Consumer spending was underpinned by strong employment growth with figures published last week showing a record 2.71 million people are now employed in the economy. Incomes also rose in real terms by 3.3 per cent, the CSO said. Worryingly, however, MDD contracted by 0.4 per cent in the final quarter of last year on the back of a fall-off in private-sector investment. Another quarterly contraction would turn Ireland’s technical recession into a real one." [1] - https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/03/01/recession-confirmed-as-irelands-gdp-shrinks-32/ https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/03/01/recession-con...
aerodog 2y ago
The picture - seriously?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- amluto 2y ago
  Do these publications have a rule that every article needs a photo, even if it’s irrelevant? I don’t actually want to see a stock (or AI) photo that adds nothing to the journalism.
- test6554 2y ago
  Brought to you by Gemini. When cultural accuracy won't fly: Gemini
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
mrtksn 2y ago
In the article, there's no comparison to other countries though. Is it any different than the rest of the developed world?
- swatcoder 2y ago
  People do it anyway, but you can't practically make those kinds of comparisons and unearth much of value. The characterization of mental wellbeing is cultural, not universal, and the methodology of collecting assessments is also sensitive to culture. But it doesn't really matter because it wouldn't tell you much besides "ah, only Ireland has this problem I guess" or "whelp, this has been rising eveywhere" -- neither of which are especially practical conclusions when it comes to actually doing something about it.
goalonetwo 2y ago
We also don't talk enough about the mental impact of living in one of the worst weather on the planet. Every other day is rainy, dark and foggy.
- dave84 2y ago
  I’ll never forget the sense of wellbeing I felt after my first “sun holiday” further south, it was revelatory.
  - shanemhansen 2y ago
    I live somewhere with similar weather and I don't feel like the weather is getting me down... Until there's a sunny day and I'm 10x more productive and happy.
  - anotherhue 2y ago
    The strawberries are good down there too.
- JasserInicide 2y ago
  I would love to live in that climate but that's not where the high-paying tech jobs and somewhat-affordable housing are. Instead I have to be in a climate where it's a blistering 105F for 3 straight months (arguably equally as depressing).
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    You have no idea what lack of sunlight does to a person. Cloudy and dreary every day is far more depressing than sunshine all the time. Try it.
- basisword 2y ago
  You don't have to move very far to see a meaningful difference either. The difference in weather between the north of Ireland and the south of England is staggering. The proper summers there largely make up for the miserable winters. No so in Ireland sadly. It sounds mad but the wonderful English weather is one of the main things that would stop me moving back to Ireland.
jarrell_mark 2y ago
[flagged]
negamax 2y ago
Ireland should be an international study about how a state destroyed itself by running a gigantic welfare state despite all of world's money pouring into it Almost €300B national debt. Government is giving free houses, money to people who don't work. It's the only relatively wealthy European country with unlimited dole. And people make a lifestyle out of living on welfare forever. This is despite huge corporation tax receipts and income tax receipts by largely foreign born workforce One in five people are directly or indirectly employed by the government of a tiny country.. it's just a waste from bottom to top and all are complicit
- piva00 2y ago
  Any sources for Ireland's government giving free houses?
  - negamax 2y ago
    By law all new developments are required to have 20% social housing. And google search will show you the extent of corruption and free money that goes hand in hand source: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/law-change-to-make-20-of-units-in-new-developments-affordable-or-social-homes-1.4599679 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/law-change-to-make-... Also city councils run a large stock of social housing where tenants pay nothing and live for generations
    - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
      Literally in the headline of the source you linked states 20% are affordable or social housing, not all social housing. And a ten second google about what "social housing" means as I'm not Irish and don't know, tells me that social housing is not, in fact, free and is instead adjusted rent based on your ability to pay. I suppose it's not impossible that some of it is free, since some people may not be able to pay anything, but this is some incredible goal post shifting from: > Government is giving free houses To: > By law all new developments are required to have 20% social housing Which then after going to your linked source became: > Law change to make 20% of units in new developments affordable or social homes So 1 in 5 newly developed homes has to be affordable or social housing, which is rented, not gifted as property to the unfortunate resident. The horror. You're of course entitled to disagree with these measures and programs, but if you have to go so far as to be within shouting distance of outright lying, it kind of implies you don't have a good position that can be backed by the actual facts on the ground as opposed to your ideological predispositions.
sirmike_ 2y ago
Oh well. Maybe they can complain to their govt about how they need more stuff and money.
bilekas 2y ago
Having left Ireland over two years ago I can say that the quality of life is simply awful there compared to many other European locations. I love my country and I was paid exceptionally but at every turn there is an extra overhead or increase in price accomodation is simply disgusting in Dublin, the weather is laughed about being a factor but when you're stuck indoors 80% of the year it has a big effect on your mental health over time. Add to that the real growing problem of petty and violent crime in the city. While not out of control right now, it's unmanageable by the current Garda police force. I hope it can figure things out, but as I see, Facebook conspiracy theorists and cookoos are starting to have political positions and it doesn't look like it will end well.
- OJFord 2y ago
  > Add to that the real growing problem of petty and violent crime in the city. No kidding, I couldn't get my head around the recentish riots at all - child killed; immigrant comes to others' aid; everyone starts rioting; supposedly anti-immigrant, but involves mainly attacking police and burning public infrastructure... Not that I'd support that kind of political action anyway, but at least make some kind of sense, do correctly targeted rioting?
  - bilekas 2y ago
    > No kidding, I couldn't get my head around the recentish riots at all - child killed; immigrant comes to others' aid; everyone starts rioting; supposedly anti-immigrant, but involves mainly attacking police and burning public infrastructure... Great example, that was a really embarrassing moment for me to see. The riots were just a reason for the scum to act out and do whatever they wanted, under the guise of something reasonable. Gaslighting on a physical scale. Really good example of how the country overall has changed for the worse.
loughnane 2y ago
I’m from Boston visiting Ireland for the first time. We’re spending our time in the west, from the Dingle peninsula up to Sligo. Right now we’re in Connemara. That’s a neat coincidence, but it doesn’t give me any insight on this problem. What I can say from the article is that it sounds just like articles in the US decrying Gen Z’s “failure to launch”. It’s a real problem, but it doesn’t seem unique to Ireland. I guess people in UK and continental Europe all struggle with the same problems.
anotherhue 2y ago
Half of Ireland's young people have had their entire future stolen from them before their very eyes.
- stcredzero 2y ago
  I am curious. Please give us more information on what you are referring to and your specific point of view.
  - anotherhue 2y ago
    https://archive.ph/raUZk https://archive.ph/raUZk (originally https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/15/world/europe/ireland-housing-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/15/world/europe/ireland-hous...) Allow me to further point out that 'just live with your parents' requires that your parents be close to your job. However the lion's share of jobs (worth having) are in Dublin. Therefore if you're not from Dublin you don't get the free parents rent, you pay the same $3k that you would rather pay as a mortgage or save as as downpayment, and are then outcompeted by those who were able to avail of the benefit. Therefore what we're seeing is a total destruction of wealth for anyone outside of Dublin. Nevermind the oft maligned truth that your ability to pay €X in monthly rent is insufficent evidence of your ability to pay €0.8X in a mortgage thanks to the new rules brought in after the previous generation a) got their houses and b) ruined everything with bailout debt.
    - romafirst3 2y ago
      Article is paywalled but seems to just be a hyperbolic headline in the style of US papers talking about foreign countries. The social contract has not been completely ruptured. I checked last week.
      - anotherhue 2y ago
        There is no longer a path to having a family. Whatever you want to call that then.

36 points by cat-snatcher 2y ago

Ireland is in a very bad spot right now. They are in a deep recession, over a year of gdp contraction. Later this month we find out last quarter's gdp reduction and if it's -0.6% or worse, Ireland moves from recession to depression. Which I will be shocked to see if they achieve anything better. Ireland's housing crisis: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/15/world/europe/ireland-housing-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/15/world/europe/ireland-hous... Overall Ireland is in a bad spot and young folks with low work experience are the ones who will hurt the most.

angrais 2y ago
Was this comment generated by AI?
- nequo 2y ago
  Looks human to me and to https://gptzero.me/ https://gptzero.me/. What made you think it was AI?
  - angrais 2y ago
    The repetition in the last sentence and use of "Overall". The structure of the first paragraph too. I appreciate this may not have been the case (sorry OP), which is why I asked the above question.
KoolKat23 2y ago
GDP when it comes to Ireland is not the best measure, yes it was down in 2023 due to lower returns from pharmaceutical and contract manufacturing multinationals. Modified Domestic Demand, a better measure of the internal economy was up 0.5%, much better but will still be felt relative to the crazy highs Ireland reached the past few years. The new OECD tax agreement means GDP and tax will remain under pressure (tax surplus forecasts are being revised downwards).
- circlefavshape 2y ago
  +1 The Irish Central Bank doesn't use GDP anymore because our tax haven status distorts it so much.
paulette449 2y ago
Shrinking GDP, yes, likely to move from technical to actual recession, sure, but "in a deep recession" is factually incorrect [1]: "Ireland officially fell into recession last year as multinational exports slumped in the face of weaker global demand but the domestic economy still managed to grow, aided by stronger-than-expected consumer spending. Central Statistics Office (CSO) figures published on Friday show the economy as a whole shrank by 3.2 per cent in GDP (gross domestic product) terms in 2023. The CSO noted that the more globalised sectors of the economy, including the multinational-dominated “Industry” sector, contracted for the first time since 2013. This was “driven largely by a fall of 4.8 per cent in exports,” the agency said. The figures show the economy was effectively in a technical recession for the entirety of 2023 with GDP contracting in all four quarters. The domestic economy as measured by modified domestic demand (MDD), a more reliable barometer of domestic activity, grew by 0.5 per cent on the back of a 3.1 per cent increase in consumer spending. Consumer spending was underpinned by strong employment growth with figures published last week showing a record 2.71 million people are now employed in the economy. Incomes also rose in real terms by 3.3 per cent, the CSO said. Worryingly, however, MDD contracted by 0.4 per cent in the final quarter of last year on the back of a fall-off in private-sector investment. Another quarterly contraction would turn Ireland’s technical recession into a real one." [1] - https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/03/01/recession-confirmed-as-irelands-gdp-shrinks-32/ https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/03/01/recession-con...

aerodog 2y ago

The picture - seriously?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
amluto 2y ago
Do these publications have a rule that every article needs a photo, even if it’s irrelevant? I don’t actually want to see a stock (or AI) photo that adds nothing to the journalism.
test6554 2y ago
Brought to you by Gemini. When cultural accuracy won't fly: Gemini
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

mrtksn 2y ago

In the article, there's no comparison to other countries though. Is it any different than the rest of the developed world?

swatcoder 2y ago
People do it anyway, but you can't practically make those kinds of comparisons and unearth much of value. The characterization of mental wellbeing is cultural, not universal, and the methodology of collecting assessments is also sensitive to culture. But it doesn't really matter because it wouldn't tell you much besides "ah, only Ireland has this problem I guess" or "whelp, this has been rising eveywhere" -- neither of which are especially practical conclusions when it comes to actually doing something about it.

goalonetwo 2y ago

We also don't talk enough about the mental impact of living in one of the worst weather on the planet. Every other day is rainy, dark and foggy.

dave84 2y ago
I’ll never forget the sense of wellbeing I felt after my first “sun holiday” further south, it was revelatory.
- shanemhansen 2y ago
  I live somewhere with similar weather and I don't feel like the weather is getting me down... Until there's a sunny day and I'm 10x more productive and happy.
- anotherhue 2y ago
  The strawberries are good down there too.
JasserInicide 2y ago
I would love to live in that climate but that's not where the high-paying tech jobs and somewhat-affordable housing are. Instead I have to be in a climate where it's a blistering 105F for 3 straight months (arguably equally as depressing).
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  You have no idea what lack of sunlight does to a person. Cloudy and dreary every day is far more depressing than sunshine all the time. Try it.
basisword 2y ago
You don't have to move very far to see a meaningful difference either. The difference in weather between the north of Ireland and the south of England is staggering. The proper summers there largely make up for the miserable winters. No so in Ireland sadly. It sounds mad but the wonderful English weather is one of the main things that would stop me moving back to Ireland.

jarrell_mark 2y ago

[flagged]

negamax 2y ago

Ireland should be an international study about how a state destroyed itself by running a gigantic welfare state despite all of world's money pouring into it Almost €300B national debt. Government is giving free houses, money to people who don't work. It's the only relatively wealthy European country with unlimited dole. And people make a lifestyle out of living on welfare forever. This is despite huge corporation tax receipts and income tax receipts by largely foreign born workforce One in five people are directly or indirectly employed by the government of a tiny country.. it's just a waste from bottom to top and all are complicit

piva00 2y ago
Any sources for Ireland's government giving free houses?
- negamax 2y ago
  By law all new developments are required to have 20% social housing. And google search will show you the extent of corruption and free money that goes hand in hand source: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/law-change-to-make-20-of-units-in-new-developments-affordable-or-social-homes-1.4599679 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/law-change-to-make-... Also city councils run a large stock of social housing where tenants pay nothing and live for generations
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    Literally in the headline of the source you linked states 20% are affordable or social housing, not all social housing. And a ten second google about what "social housing" means as I'm not Irish and don't know, tells me that social housing is not, in fact, free and is instead adjusted rent based on your ability to pay. I suppose it's not impossible that some of it is free, since some people may not be able to pay anything, but this is some incredible goal post shifting from: > Government is giving free houses To: > By law all new developments are required to have 20% social housing Which then after going to your linked source became: > Law change to make 20% of units in new developments affordable or social homes So 1 in 5 newly developed homes has to be affordable or social housing, which is rented, not gifted as property to the unfortunate resident. The horror. You're of course entitled to disagree with these measures and programs, but if you have to go so far as to be within shouting distance of outright lying, it kind of implies you don't have a good position that can be backed by the actual facts on the ground as opposed to your ideological predispositions.

sirmike_ 2y ago

Oh well. Maybe they can complain to their govt about how they need more stuff and money.

bilekas 2y ago

Having left Ireland over two years ago I can say that the quality of life is simply awful there compared to many other European locations. I love my country and I was paid exceptionally but at every turn there is an extra overhead or increase in price accomodation is simply disgusting in Dublin, the weather is laughed about being a factor but when you're stuck indoors 80% of the year it has a big effect on your mental health over time. Add to that the real growing problem of petty and violent crime in the city. While not out of control right now, it's unmanageable by the current Garda police force. I hope it can figure things out, but as I see, Facebook conspiracy theorists and cookoos are starting to have political positions and it doesn't look like it will end well.

OJFord 2y ago
> Add to that the real growing problem of petty and violent crime in the city. No kidding, I couldn't get my head around the recentish riots at all - child killed; immigrant comes to others' aid; everyone starts rioting; supposedly anti-immigrant, but involves mainly attacking police and burning public infrastructure... Not that I'd support that kind of political action anyway, but at least make some kind of sense, do correctly targeted rioting?
- bilekas 2y ago
  > No kidding, I couldn't get my head around the recentish riots at all - child killed; immigrant comes to others' aid; everyone starts rioting; supposedly anti-immigrant, but involves mainly attacking police and burning public infrastructure... Great example, that was a really embarrassing moment for me to see. The riots were just a reason for the scum to act out and do whatever they wanted, under the guise of something reasonable. Gaslighting on a physical scale. Really good example of how the country overall has changed for the worse.

loughnane 2y ago

I’m from Boston visiting Ireland for the first time. We’re spending our time in the west, from the Dingle peninsula up to Sligo. Right now we’re in Connemara. That’s a neat coincidence, but it doesn’t give me any insight on this problem. What I can say from the article is that it sounds just like articles in the US decrying Gen Z’s “failure to launch”. It’s a real problem, but it doesn’t seem unique to Ireland. I guess people in UK and continental Europe all struggle with the same problems.

anotherhue 2y ago

Half of Ireland's young people have had their entire future stolen from them before their very eyes.

stcredzero 2y ago
I am curious. Please give us more information on what you are referring to and your specific point of view.
- anotherhue 2y ago
  https://archive.ph/raUZk https://archive.ph/raUZk (originally https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/15/world/europe/ireland-housing-crisis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/15/world/europe/ireland-hous...) Allow me to further point out that 'just live with your parents' requires that your parents be close to your job. However the lion's share of jobs (worth having) are in Dublin. Therefore if you're not from Dublin you don't get the free parents rent, you pay the same $3k that you would rather pay as a mortgage or save as as downpayment, and are then outcompeted by those who were able to avail of the benefit. Therefore what we're seeing is a total destruction of wealth for anyone outside of Dublin. Nevermind the oft maligned truth that your ability to pay €X in monthly rent is insufficent evidence of your ability to pay €0.8X in a mortgage thanks to the new rules brought in after the previous generation a) got their houses and b) ruined everything with bailout debt.
  - romafirst3 2y ago
    Article is paywalled but seems to just be a hyperbolic headline in the style of US papers talking about foreign countries. The social contract has not been completely ruptured. I checked last week.
    - anotherhue 2y ago
      There is no longer a path to having a family. Whatever you want to call that then.