6 ms·

Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls

17 points by tscherno 2y ago

hunglee2 2y ago
An interesting dilemma for media owners - the subscription model is the future of news, yet the self suppression of reach that this necessarily entails means that media owners now have far less influence over politics than they did during the ad-funded era, hence this unsatisfactory half-way house of 'its free when we want to influence your voting behaviour' Also: democracy isn't dying just because media stops have the reach it once did. People will still vote, that is not being suppressed
- macintux 2y ago
  > People will still vote, that is not being suppressed Some would vehemently disagree with the second part of that sentence. Voter suppression is practically a plank of one of the two U.S. major parties. And is voting still meaningful if most people are ignorant of what's happening in the shadows?
  - hunglee2 2y ago
    how is voter suppression operating (genuine question!) - what are the key techniques? >And is voting still meaningful if most people are ignorant of what's happening in the shadows?< Democracy is simply people voting for representatives, we have never measured ignorance of the population, hence no qualitative difference today than any time in the history of this system of governance
    - adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
      the most obvious is by closing poling places in regions where your opponents live. Lots of Republican states have dramatically reduced the number of poling places in cities leading, predictably to hour long lines to vote. in addition, some have made giving food or water to people in line illegal.
      - hunglee2 2y ago
        this is terrible. How are they able to get away with this?
    - macintux 2y ago
      > how is voter suppression operating Well, one egregious example would be sending a SWAT team to arrest someone in the early morning because they were erroneously allowed to register but not to vote. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/florida-voter-fraud-election-police-desantis-entrapment.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/florida-voter-fr... Or aggressively purging voter rolls in minority districts. https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lawsuit-alleges-ohio-illegally-purging-voter-rolls-msna828006 https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lawsuit-alleges-ohio-illegally-p... Or closing voting sites in minority areas. https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/politics/poll-closures-rural-lincoln-county-georgia/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/politics/poll-closures-rural-... Or outlawing handing out water to people waiting in line to vote. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/29/josh-holmes/facts-about-georgias-ban-food-water-giveaways-vote/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/29/josh-holme... And early/absentee voting has been on the firing line. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/voting-restrictions-republicans-states/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/vot...
      - hunglee2 2y ago
        thanks. This is outrageous. How is it possible for these actions to occur, especially closing voting sites? Surely there should be federal mandate that there should be X number of voting sites per Y number of residents
        macintux 2y ago
        Like much else in the U.S. system of government, responsibility for managing elections is distributed between the federal and local governments, and most of the laws are local, not federal. For decades much of the south was under federal oversight because the suppression of black voting rights was so flagrant that Congress passed a law to impose some sanity, but the law was significantly hamstrung by the Supreme Court in 2013. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965
ProllyInfamous 2y ago
I think a more-specific example of guarded democracy would be politicians whom only communicate with the public via gardened walls (e.g. Facebook, Twitter).
SamuelAdams 2y ago
Is this supposed to be ironic? This article is literally behind a paywall…
royal__ 2y ago
The irony here is insane
- jlund-molfese 2y ago
  It's already called out in the article, "(Yes, you may face this very dilemma reading this story in The Atlantic.)" The author doesn't have control over the paywall policy, and he probably isn't a full-time journalist. So I don't think this is as much of a "gotcha" as other comments make it out to be. But, interestingly enough, another author wrote a very similar, non-paywalled article at https://www.poynter.org/commentary/2022/all-news-election-articles-should-be-free/ https://www.poynter.org/commentary/2022/all-news-election-ar... a few years ago! I wonder if Stengel was aware of it.
mitchbob 2y ago
https://archive.ph/2024.04.15-023815/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/paywall-problems-media-trust-democracy/678032/ https://archive.ph/2024.04.15-023815/https://www.theatlantic...
strict9 2y ago
It also dies behind dark patterns that prevent you from canceling the subscription. I've subscribed to a few publications over the years but not any more. After getting burned a few times from an easy to sign up but impossible to cancel user experience I have sworn them all off. I refuse to support subscriptions that require talking to a person. And waiting on hold and having to navigate the operator trying to prevent you from canceling. In my experience all media and news subscriptions do this.
- daymanstep 2y ago
  Why not just use a virtual credit card?
  - whywhywhywhy 2y ago
    Why not just read something else that doesn't require such hoops.
  - flutas 2y ago
    They can still send you to a debt collector if you don't "properly" cancel by sending them a smoke signal at 3:42pm on a sunny day with easterly winds. They did it to me, luckily I was able to get it removed.
    - MrDrMcCoy 2y ago
      Not if you never give them any real information about you. At least one virtual card operator lets you use whatever name and address you want per card.
- gustavus 2y ago
  Once signed up for the WSJ. Took 10 minutes just put in my credit card and address, got a sign up discount, and boom was done. 3 months later I needed to cancel. It turns out you can only cancel by a phone call, during their business hours on the east coast. Of course that wasn't the end because then it was probably twenty minutes on hold and fighting with. "No I want to cancel. No I don't care if you offer me a discount, I am pissed you made me call in to cancel. No I don't want to suspend I want to quit." Swore I would never purchase them again if they are going to do something like that.
k310 2y ago
Yes, it's behind a paywall. mitchbob posted the archive link, and as I have noted, when factual information is paywalled, only lies, propaganda and conspiracy theories will be free to many. A raft of subscriptions is ridiculous and dangerous. Every one increases your odds of identity theft. And the idea is not new. "Someone" created a cool graphic a long time ago. https://i.ibb.co/d663L0X/waoi.jpg https://i.ibb.co/d663L0X/waoi.jpg
sokolova46 2y ago
How ironic that this article is behind a paywall

17 points by tscherno 2y ago

An interesting dilemma for media owners - the subscription model is the future of news, yet the self suppression of reach that this necessarily entails means that media owners now have far less influence over politics than they did during the ad-funded era, hence this unsatisfactory half-way house of 'its free when we want to influence your voting behaviour' Also: democracy isn't dying just because media stops have the reach it once did. People will still vote, that is not being suppressed

macintux 2y ago
> People will still vote, that is not being suppressed Some would vehemently disagree with the second part of that sentence. Voter suppression is practically a plank of one of the two U.S. major parties. And is voting still meaningful if most people are ignorant of what's happening in the shadows?
- hunglee2 2y ago
  how is voter suppression operating (genuine question!) - what are the key techniques? >And is voting still meaningful if most people are ignorant of what's happening in the shadows?< Democracy is simply people voting for representatives, we have never measured ignorance of the population, hence no qualitative difference today than any time in the history of this system of governance
  - adgjlsfhk1 2y ago
    the most obvious is by closing poling places in regions where your opponents live. Lots of Republican states have dramatically reduced the number of poling places in cities leading, predictably to hour long lines to vote. in addition, some have made giving food or water to people in line illegal.
    - hunglee2 2y ago
      this is terrible. How are they able to get away with this?
  - macintux 2y ago
    > how is voter suppression operating Well, one egregious example would be sending a SWAT team to arrest someone in the early morning because they were erroneously allowed to register but not to vote. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/florida-voter-fraud-election-police-desantis-entrapment.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/08/florida-voter-fr... Or aggressively purging voter rolls in minority districts. https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lawsuit-alleges-ohio-illegally-purging-voter-rolls-msna828006 https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lawsuit-alleges-ohio-illegally-p... Or closing voting sites in minority areas. https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/politics/poll-closures-rural-lincoln-county-georgia/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/19/politics/poll-closures-rural-... Or outlawing handing out water to people waiting in line to vote. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/29/josh-holmes/facts-about-georgias-ban-food-water-giveaways-vote/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/29/josh-holme... And early/absentee voting has been on the firing line. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/voting-restrictions-republicans-states/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/vot...
    - hunglee2 2y ago
      thanks. This is outrageous. How is it possible for these actions to occur, especially closing voting sites? Surely there should be federal mandate that there should be X number of voting sites per Y number of residents
      - macintux 2y ago
        Like much else in the U.S. system of government, responsibility for managing elections is distributed between the federal and local governments, and most of the laws are local, not federal. For decades much of the south was under federal oversight because the suppression of black voting rights was so flagrant that Congress passed a law to impose some sanity, but the law was significantly hamstrung by the Supreme Court in 2013. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965

ProllyInfamous 2y ago

I think a more-specific example of guarded democracy would be politicians whom only communicate with the public via gardened walls (e.g. Facebook, Twitter).

SamuelAdams 2y ago

Is this supposed to be ironic? This article is literally behind a paywall…

royal__ 2y ago

The irony here is insane

jlund-molfese 2y ago
It's already called out in the article, "(Yes, you may face this very dilemma reading this story in The Atlantic.)" The author doesn't have control over the paywall policy, and he probably isn't a full-time journalist. So I don't think this is as much of a "gotcha" as other comments make it out to be. But, interestingly enough, another author wrote a very similar, non-paywalled article at https://www.poynter.org/commentary/2022/all-news-election-articles-should-be-free/ https://www.poynter.org/commentary/2022/all-news-election-ar... a few years ago! I wonder if Stengel was aware of it.

mitchbob 2y ago

https://archive.ph/2024.04.15-023815/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/04/paywall-problems-media-trust-democracy/678032/ https://archive.ph/2024.04.15-023815/https://www.theatlantic...

strict9 2y ago

It also dies behind dark patterns that prevent you from canceling the subscription. I've subscribed to a few publications over the years but not any more. After getting burned a few times from an easy to sign up but impossible to cancel user experience I have sworn them all off. I refuse to support subscriptions that require talking to a person. And waiting on hold and having to navigate the operator trying to prevent you from canceling. In my experience all media and news subscriptions do this.

daymanstep 2y ago
Why not just use a virtual credit card?
- whywhywhywhy 2y ago
  Why not just read something else that doesn't require such hoops.
- flutas 2y ago
  They can still send you to a debt collector if you don't "properly" cancel by sending them a smoke signal at 3:42pm on a sunny day with easterly winds. They did it to me, luckily I was able to get it removed.
  - MrDrMcCoy 2y ago
    Not if you never give them any real information about you. At least one virtual card operator lets you use whatever name and address you want per card.
gustavus 2y ago
Once signed up for the WSJ. Took 10 minutes just put in my credit card and address, got a sign up discount, and boom was done. 3 months later I needed to cancel. It turns out you can only cancel by a phone call, during their business hours on the east coast. Of course that wasn't the end because then it was probably twenty minutes on hold and fighting with. "No I want to cancel. No I don't care if you offer me a discount, I am pissed you made me call in to cancel. No I don't want to suspend I want to quit." Swore I would never purchase them again if they are going to do something like that.

k310 2y ago

Yes, it's behind a paywall. mitchbob posted the archive link, and as I have noted, when factual information is paywalled, only lies, propaganda and conspiracy theories will be free to many. A raft of subscriptions is ridiculous and dangerous. Every one increases your odds of identity theft. And the idea is not new. "Someone" created a cool graphic a long time ago. https://i.ibb.co/d663L0X/waoi.jpg https://i.ibb.co/d663L0X/waoi.jpg

sokolova46 2y ago

How ironic that this article is behind a paywall