7 ms·

This is not related to Boeing at all. Engine covers not being closed properly is a relatively common (still rare in the grand scheme of things) incident and hap

This is not related to Boeing at all. Engine covers not being closed properly is a relatively common (still rare in the grand scheme of things) incident and happens a lot more frequently on Airbus models to the point that Airbus modified the door latch.

s_dev 2y ago
This incident isn't related to Boeing .. at all ... but when Airbus do it (which you assure it happens more frequently) it's related to whom exactly, and why did Airbus fix it if it wasn't related to them (modified the door latch)?
- cschmatzler 2y ago
  Whoever did not latch the door properly after doing maintenance checks. Which is either a mechanic at the airline itself or someone at a maintenance hub that is contracted by the airline. Not the job of the manufacturer whatsoever.
  - AdamN 2y ago
    The point s_dev is trying to make is that the designer can (and should) design things so that the mechanic "doesn't have to think". Seems like Airbus has evolved their design accordingly.
    - GerryB 2y ago
      The solution is actually quite elegant: a long tagged key required to open the door which remains in the lock until it's closed again. https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/preventing-fan-cowl-door-loss/ https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/preventing-fan-cowl-door-loss...
  - s_dev 2y ago
    So why did Airbus modify the door latch?
    - cschmatzler 2y ago
      They were required to by an airworthiness directive. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/06/29/2017-13409/airworthiness-directives-airbus-airplanes https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/06/29/2017-13...
    - pfannkuchen 2y ago
      To make the plane more user friendly?
- filleduchaos 2y ago
  Worth noting that only a few weeks ago an Airbus A330 had a very similar engine-panel-coming-off issue, which I'm 99.9% sure you hadn't heard about at all until I pointed it out to you - unlike this incident, which will have hundreds of articles and blog posts written about it. I'd like everyone here to consider just how much they are letting [social] media do their thinking for them. (The incident I'm referring to: https://avherald.com/h?article=5169614a&opt=0 https://avherald.com/h?article=5169614a&opt=0)
  - s_dev 2y ago
    The user I'm replying to is making contradictory statements -- I'm asking questions to try and illustrate the contradiction. If this issue is unrelated to Boeing it's also unrelated to Airbus.
    - CapcomGo 2y ago
      It's clearly not a manufacturer issue at all. This is just part of the normal incidents that happen in air travel that the public is normally not aware of.
      - s_dev 2y ago
        That's fine then just don't blame Airbus for doing it even worse since you've already established the manufacturer isn't responsible. That's the original context.
tcldr 2y ago
> and happens a lot more frequently on Airbus models to the point that Airbus modified the door latch. So you’re saying Airbus resolved this issue? Why hasn’t Boeing?
- cschmatzler 2y ago
  Because Boeing didn’t have the same issue Airbus did. The latches on A320 family cowlings were kinda hidden from view, which made them less likely to be seen during the pilot’s walk around before departure. The EASA (and then subsequently the FAA) issued an airworthiness directive [1] that required the visibility to be resolved. For this case, it’s simply both the mechanic forgetting to latch it properly _and_ the pilot missing that fact during the walk around. Either way, it’s not really a safety critical incident, just rather embarrassing. [1] https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/06/29/2017-13409/airworthiness-directives-airbus-airplanes https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/06/29/2017-13...
hgomersall 2y ago
It's interesting in the sense that it demonstrates a shift in the Zeitgeist. It's probably true that this isn't Boeing's fault, but the media have taken to reporting every problem encountered with a Boeing plane which reinforces the narrative that Boeing make poor aircraft, which ultimately is a bigger problem for Boeing than them actually making poor aircraft.

s_dev 2y ago

This incident isn't related to Boeing .. at all ... but when Airbus do it (which you assure it happens more frequently) it's related to whom exactly, and why did Airbus fix it if it wasn't related to them (modified the door latch)?

cschmatzler 2y ago
Whoever did not latch the door properly after doing maintenance checks. Which is either a mechanic at the airline itself or someone at a maintenance hub that is contracted by the airline. Not the job of the manufacturer whatsoever.
- AdamN 2y ago
  The point s_dev is trying to make is that the designer can (and should) design things so that the mechanic "doesn't have to think". Seems like Airbus has evolved their design accordingly.
  - GerryB 2y ago
    The solution is actually quite elegant: a long tagged key required to open the door which remains in the lock until it's closed again. https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/preventing-fan-cowl-door-loss/ https://safetyfirst.airbus.com/preventing-fan-cowl-door-loss...
- s_dev 2y ago
  So why did Airbus modify the door latch?
  - cschmatzler 2y ago
    They were required to by an airworthiness directive. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/06/29/2017-13409/airworthiness-directives-airbus-airplanes https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/06/29/2017-13...
  - pfannkuchen 2y ago
    To make the plane more user friendly?
filleduchaos 2y ago
Worth noting that only a few weeks ago an Airbus A330 had a very similar engine-panel-coming-off issue, which I'm 99.9% sure you hadn't heard about at all until I pointed it out to you - unlike this incident, which will have hundreds of articles and blog posts written about it. I'd like everyone here to consider just how much they are letting [social] media do their thinking for them. (The incident I'm referring to: https://avherald.com/h?article=5169614a&opt=0 https://avherald.com/h?article=5169614a&opt=0)
- s_dev 2y ago
  The user I'm replying to is making contradictory statements -- I'm asking questions to try and illustrate the contradiction. If this issue is unrelated to Boeing it's also unrelated to Airbus.
  - CapcomGo 2y ago
    It's clearly not a manufacturer issue at all. This is just part of the normal incidents that happen in air travel that the public is normally not aware of.
    - s_dev 2y ago
      That's fine then just don't blame Airbus for doing it even worse since you've already established the manufacturer isn't responsible. That's the original context.

tcldr 2y ago

> and happens a lot more frequently on Airbus models to the point that Airbus modified the door latch. So you’re saying Airbus resolved this issue? Why hasn’t Boeing?

cschmatzler 2y ago
Because Boeing didn’t have the same issue Airbus did. The latches on A320 family cowlings were kinda hidden from view, which made them less likely to be seen during the pilot’s walk around before departure. The EASA (and then subsequently the FAA) issued an airworthiness directive [1] that required the visibility to be resolved. For this case, it’s simply both the mechanic forgetting to latch it properly _and_ the pilot missing that fact during the walk around. Either way, it’s not really a safety critical incident, just rather embarrassing. [1] https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/06/29/2017-13409/airworthiness-directives-airbus-airplanes https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2017/06/29/2017-13...

hgomersall 2y ago

It's interesting in the sense that it demonstrates a shift in the Zeitgeist. It's probably true that this isn't Boeing's fault, but the media have taken to reporting every problem encountered with a Boeing plane which reinforces the narrative that Boeing make poor aircraft, which ultimately is a bigger problem for Boeing than them actually making poor aircraft.